charlesk

Same old argument all over again...
Numbers don't tell everything, and choosing a car is down to personal preference. It depends on what you want out of the car that's why different people buy different cars.

Newage cars can be very capable and civilised at the same time, when a classic Impreza will be a more "raw" driving experience.

I bought a V6 STi TypeR just over a year ago, but serious contenders where also P1's,and V8 STi's (out of the Scoobs because a TommyMakinen was also very high on the list).

For me it came down to the more direct driving experience that I choose a late classic and I've not regretted it. Last week I drove a mates 05 STi (PPP) on track, and I must admit although it was v.good, I still like my TypeR more. (an 06 Spec C RA or a T25 might have been a different story, but are in another price league...)

Drive/get in for a spin in as many as you can and then you'll be able to make the right choice you.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

anyone can blast it in a straight line, handling is where the fun is. a classic just won't compete, sorry.

richiewong

Went from a V5 STI Type R to a 04WRX PPP, miss the old car but never looked back at the quality of the newage.
God I'm getting old

swtmerce

My god, that's a bit harsh don't you think? My standard classic STi provides much better handling than my old blobeye WRX which had a whiteline rear ARB, and my old bugeye which had Eibach springs.

bluerigster

iTrader: (9)

I own a classic type RA with full AST coilover suspension with whiteline rear ARB, bump steer mod and anti lift kit. Cusco under bracing, alloy strut braces front and back and 18 inch alloys with 35 profile Toyo tyres. Porsche 6 pot brake conversion and running a 2.5L engine on a TD05 20g turbo running 350 bhp. I can honestly say after playing with my mates blobeye sti PPP the classic wins hands down. Its raw with violent power delivery pulls away from the blobeye from very early revs and corners and brakes better no ABS cutting in all the time make your braking distances worse and also over 200kgs lighter. The Classic if set up correctly is miles better like every car ever produced as time goes on the manufacture takes away its edge by weighing it down with more and more safety mods. A classic is the only subaru I'll ever own as its the best version Subaru has ever produced.

Tuts

Of course it does, you have spent more on mods than the car is worth!

If the classic is so good why did you feel the need to change everything apart from the body shell!?

Fit the same mods to a newage and I bet you can't pull away. Maybe by a fraction of a second on a track because it is a bit lighter but not on the road. As standard the newage has it. Plus if you drive on the roads the refinement and safety mods are GOOD thing.

blueangel

Hehe,or do you mean buy a newage model(big fat-barge)

blueangel

Heavy big blue saloon

cursed bat

I drove a friends Sti 04 yesterday back to back with my virtually standard P1 on the same road.

The refinement comfort and especially the gear change of the Sti really deserves comment as being superior.....

But you really felt involved and could nudge the limits far more comfortably in the P1. Much more of a drivers car.

All depends what you want, and boils down to fun. Sti much greater grip, more solid feel reliable etc or classic for more accessible/exploitable performance and driving buzz.

To have the same amount of fun you would have to push the Sti alot harder.

Neither are bad just depends on your priorities.

every1sgottablue1

Here Here !!!!!!!!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You needed to do all this to be better than a PPP'd STi, that pretty much rests my case.
Ill give you a clue.... exhaust and remap, I'll be producing more power and more torque than your 2.5ltr, I will not need to change the clutch, gearbox, brakes or anything else for that matter, and it will be quicker
New age v classic, newage thanks

Tony

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agreed with the anyone can go fast in a straight line bit, but we were talking about straight line performance and my point was that the difference won't be as big as some people were suggesting. I really do think you're deluding yourself if you think that a classic won't even compete with a new age with respect to handling. If there is one thing that hurts handling, it's weight, ask Colin Chapman!

Do remember that a spec C new age with a pro driver went around the ring in just 7 mins 59 seconds, which is incredible.

BUT

A classic (std apart from uprated brakes and a decat) with a brave amateur behind the wheel is reputed to have done it in about 8 mins 10 IIRC (cossie killer)

There are areas such as comfort and refinement where the new age is streets ahead, but if you think that a new age will slaughter a classic you're deluding yourself. Cars do progress and the Scooby was no exception, the difference is Subaru got it right very early on and in some areas is was difficult to improve!!

Ns04

As a point of jest, pretty much most of the fastest scoobies are classics AFAIK Andy F, Paul from Zen, Bob Rawle, David Wallis etc..

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Aint seen the vid of cossie killer doing the ring? is there one??
Definately one of the Spec C doing the ring
You also forgot to add the RCM car, oh sorry thats a new age with how much power? (700+bhp on a 2ltr?)
Andy F is a 2.3, pauls? 2.5? davids? 2.5? bobs... not sure about?
The only nurburgring vid ive seen of a classic type RA doing the ring is John Felstead and he did it in a respectable time
As for the jap test driver... not sure how many times he did it to get a 7.59 out of the car, but it will probably be quicker than that with a full exhaust and remap

Tony

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Tony,

Point taken, the time was not officially verified AFAIK! There is a video of it, was doing the rounds about here some time back.

Hadn't forgotten about the RCM car, but IIRC they've just done another similar, if not more powerful build on a classic with a 2.0l lump. of course, I'm guessing that this engine contains so many bespoke items, 2l capacity is about the only thing that relates to Subaru's original spec!

To be clear, I'm not saying that the new ages aren't better; of course they are, significantly so in some respects. I'm just saying that the magnitude of the difference isn't quite as great as some people make out in the performance stakes- the reason being that Subaru gave us a good, tunable car to begin with!

Ns04

PS Can i have a go of your Spec C please??

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I'll think about it

Most of the time for the classics, half the stuff they need to replace is all from new age cars then new age cars get slated which I find funny
Classics were good, not as good out of the box but you also have to compare like for like, unmodded v unmodded.
I loved my classic but i REALLY love my new age more

Tony

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, but us 18 year olds *cough* can't afford new ages!!

You have to love the way that manufacturers always seem to look to tuners for inspiration on what they should do to update the car when they consider their revisions; excellent example of getting hints about what works without having to do so much work, or incur such development costs yourself.

So why do the new cars always seem to cost more??

Ns04

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Those wind tunnels are expensive to run
Though wasnt the MY01 bugeye actually cheaper than the turbo when it came out? (wonder why )

Tony

rasonline

The 2000 STi ver 6 GC8 chassis classic shape..

Perhaps later models handle better blah blah blah.

but this was THE car to get.. put Subaru on the map. Classics were wicked in WRC. Ok 99 - 2000 got hammered by the Lancer but still, this was the raw Subaru.

L8r models just too diluted.

stevebennett

I am going to stick my neck out for a newage. if we are comparing a std uk turbo to a newage WRX.

A work collegue has a 2000 spec uk turbo and to be honest ride quality aside the newage WRX is a better care on handling. The Classic is lighter but the chasis is not as stiff and this is its drawback when it gets to the twisties.

on the flip side the newage is heavier but makes up a lot with the stiffer chasis and better breaks than the classic.

I have driven both and the newage does not feel as on edge as a classic, if that is what you call RAW then so be it but the newage inspires your confidence that bit more.

But still would love a P1 though

bluerigster

iTrader: (9)

The point I'm making is you can carry out the above mods and still have 10 grand sitting in your back pocket against purchasing a STi newage. For a newage to compete on the same level is a joke you would have to run at least an extra 50 lb/ft of torque on top of the classic just to make up for the weight difference. As for braking distances you can't beat a classic with decent brakes as the newage car weighs too much as for handling it's all a matter of weight again chuck the same suspension set on both cars and the classic will win hands down. There is no avoiding the fact that the classic is were it all started for Subaru and it's how they built there reputation, as for newage imprezas there a good safe road car but don't have the pure rawness and driver involvement that the classic has. Classics are the best car Subaru have ever produced!. I would chose between a type RA, type R, P1 or 22b and not bother looking any further.

wrxmania

Having owned both they both have their merits. In most ways the newage is a better, safer, firmer car BUT the classic STI is more fun, noisier, rawer and taut on the road. It feels more nimble BUT I loved my newage (which I owned for 3 years) and a newage STI with the right mods would be, in my mind, a superior car in the future in terms of it being - well - a modern car. Classic is a classic for a reason.

Everyday car - newage, better built, easier to live with, more economical, safer family transport, feels solid on the road, better steering. Modern feel.

Classic - rawer, more peformance orientated (particularly imports), lighter, cheaper, good ones not so common.

rmtypeR

This one is about an 8.30 lap, but there are a couple of places where he slowed during the lap.

Cossiekiller in car at the Nurburgring - Google Video

I got this off another site and stuck it on google video so if anyone has any problems re: copyright etc let me know and I'll take it down.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Totally wrong
Its not just a matter of weight, if it was how come the new heaver spec c is quicker to 100 (and 1/4 mile) than its classic predecessor...

You cannot also say "oh but put this from a new age on a classic and this and this..." its already on a new age, your 10k in the bank has gone because your trying to get your car upto the performance of a new age with new age parts.... quite weird really.
As for pure rawness, the new age cars still have that, drive a JDM STi, not a UK one, more involving than you think, and most people have never driven a new age STi (JDM version) so you should try it they are considerably better than the classics that they replace, no need to change everything on a classic (turbo etc) when a remap and exhaust will get you more power than a classic would ever produce with the same mods, then see your classic gearbox break with 400lbs of torque going though it whilst the new age car will be more than happy to except that (and your clutch).
Ive already demonstrated that my car which retarded its ecu for uk fuel (something a classic jdm sti cannot do) still produced over 300lbs of torque.
New age STi's have everything a classic wanted but never got, weight only plays a small part in it, aerodynamics is a big factor (better on a new age so less drag etc).

Tony

Gutmann pug

Looked like about 8.37 to me .......... still not a bad lap

bluerigster

iTrader: (9)

Fair enough I except your point and in all fairness I haven't had the pleasure of driving a JDM spec C so couldn't honestly comment, I've only had the experience of a UK STi PPP. I do prefer the spec C to any Evo, but I still think the Classic is a better looking car.