RMA26

Thankyou David, I might just take you up on your offer

PS - Interview went well....

The Chief

What is the biggest expense in building a 400bhp+ car is it the turbo or the uprated gearbox and internals? - or everything?

RMA26

I'm guessing the internals?

p1mark

I run a 400 BHP car as a daily runner. work/shopping/little trips etc. Its as reliable and sweet running as a standard car. Agree with what has been said that 400 is a nice figure and you can still drive it without having to be wired all the time.

Driven a couple of 500 BHP ones on the road, and you have to have your wits about you a lot more for certain.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

You can get 400 HP fairly cheaply as long as the base model can handle it. I've alway considered the cheapest way would be a non PPP bugeye STI7 since you don't need to change gearbox or open the engine.

So power wise it would be clutch, fuel pump, FMIC, breathing and turbo change with the remap, probably £5k using new parts and somebody else's labour?

Then add brakes, suspension etc its a slippery slope.

I'm aiming for 400 of each but with a classic, so far including the car I've spent £10k and I'm at the limit of the OE gearbox and turbo, about 330-340HP, but suspension and brakes are done and everything is in place for 400HP bar a gearbox, turbo and remap - about another £3.5k

So about £14k will get me a turnkey 400 of each, at the moment I have a 330HP daily driver that drops the nipper to nursery, handles the daily grind to work and also completed a 3 day 900 mile trip that took in the Nurburgring and the SPA F1 circuit.

At the moment other priorities have halted the next step, but I've always wanted (and set a ceiling of) 400 of each - IMO 300hp/ton is the max for a useable roadcar.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

great thread

for me the 350/30 target is the main thing as this can be done quite easily with some simple and well thoughts out mods. much beyond that and you have to start looking at stronger internals, clutches etc and will affect the ability to just get in the car and drive it.

RB5_245

It depends on your starting point, if you're talking uk classic then a lot of the ground work can be done a bit at a time so the cost is split up.. Turbo, headers, exhaust, fuel pump, fpr, ecu/map, injectors.. Adds up to quite a bit, then you have things like handling and brakes which are inevetbly uprated along the way, another big wedge.

That's all things that add smile factor once you get them fitted. Once you get to the gearbox you have to throw out a couple of grand for something that has no real benifit (obviously you know you need it). I think that's probably the biggest percived cost as it's 0 bhp for your £££.

Internals.. I think up toward 400bhp properly done is going to be fairly reliable if treated well. Once you're going into new internals take your pick in how much you want so spend, it could easily go to silly money.

Dave

BVM

Aint that the truth!
I have been through:
2 TBE
2 engines
2 gearboxes
2 rear diffs
4 turbos
2 water/alcohol kits
3 sets of injectors
3 intercoolers
5 intakes
& 4 remaps!

GazTheHat

I think the (blob) STi is a very good starting point for 400 of each. Strong enough engine and gearbox to cope, so it's cheaper with just bolt-on parts, than say, getting a classic there.


All this talk of big horses, then i turn the key this morning, for my weekly blast to work. Flat battery!!

The Chief

I actually had an STi bottom end fitted as my big ends let go on my original

Thing is i'd have to start again.

I currently have 270-280ish via a full decat 2.5inch, panel filter, resonator box removed, uprated fuel punp (STI) Better plugs. up pipe. and a Andy F Remap.

So really to reach these figures (i.e. 400 ish) am i correct in saying i'd need
a bigger turbo (currently run a TD04) a bigger diameter exhaust say 3inch, equal length headers, uprated injectors. uprated clutch and gearbox. and another remap.
Crikey

I might be better buying (as someone said above) a bugeye STI and then modding from there as it already has a stronger gearbox and a better (bigger) turbo.

Appologies i'm not really well up on my tuning knowledge

The Chief

You just beat me too it

GazTheHat

Chief, many routes, but getting a classic there will cost the same if not more of having a newage at the same point.

I'm not sure of the JDM STi Stage 2 route (someone want to chip in?)

But a newage STi (blob) you can get for £12k, turbo £1500, exhaust £500, headers £500, FMIC £1000 and a few other mods & map, but you'll get there for about £17-18k.

(I'd want another £1000 on suspension and £400 on brakes though)

Who can comment on getting a classic there too?

swisstonihasher

I'm running 470 bhp approx on my 2.5L (mapped by Bob Rawle) but boy have I spent a bomb on it...If had option again, would of done far less and saved me dosh! Still, all my m8's love the car and crap themselves at the same time

Not a daily driver though as my lary cams make for rich running low down in revs and that drinks fuel...

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Like I said earlier cheapest would be a bugeye STI with £5k of mods, say £15k total?

With a classic if you start with A STI V3 for say £6.5k then the same set of mods plus a 6 speed/prop/diff and injectors, a PFC mapped is a bit dearer than an ECUtek - say that comes to £8k so total is almost the same as the bugeye.

So do you go for an older lighter car with probably more wear and arguably a poor image, or the ugly heavy route?

bigsinky

I have a classic. the only thing original about the car is the body shell. Car cost me £8k and i have spend considerably more than that on it. I have had 2 incarnations of engine in it. the first was the 400BHP engine which got some abuse i can tell you. Upgrade the engine and you need the suspension, brakes and drivetrain to go with it. brakes £1500, complete STi7 drive train another £2500 - 3000 plus the fitting costs as i cant do the work my self.

My new engine went in january last year. campaigned the car last year and got some good results. terminals for the 1/4 were around 123mph. drove the car to the events, raced it all day and drove it back home to Belfast. Snapped a rear driveshaft at Jurby IOM last summer. this year at jurby again, on the last run of the day (myself against the fastest manx car) the engine blew up. Teminal speeds at Jurby where 135mph which i think is about 600 odd bhp. (someone correct me if i am wrong. it is a full weight 1250KG car and with me in it make that 1360KG)

1 major breakage in 4 years of driving. i think i have got off light. people on here, (not to mention a few names Stephen, Dave) have gone through engines and gearboxes like they were made from chocolate. Still, it gives me a chance to make thing bigger and better. Problem being i am now going to have to go down the 2.5 route as 2.2 closed decks are no longer available. cant wait to get back behind the wheel. a 2.0 HDi just aint the same

bigsinky

Yep, need 100% concentration when moving at a quick pace. Power builds much faster and has been said before you are going into corners alot faster than you used to. i have scared myself on a number of occasions. i will gladly admit i don't drive my car to 75% of it potential. i got michael to put 2 boost settings on my car. 1 is very quick, the other is just fookin mental, as Alan has said if caught doing some speed you would be locked up and the key thrown away. it's just the sheer ease with which the car can do those speeds. rev out in 3rd and 4th and you are well into 3 figure speeds. i just tootle about in my car now. no racing at all unless at the track. i am forever hounded by all sorts want to race but i smile and just let them get on with it. nothing this side of a £500,000 super car is gonna come anywhere close, so why would i destroy my car and waste the petrol? will they never learn.

GazTheHat

So, just out of interest, for 400 of each, and a reliable daily drive, the estimations are as follows:

Classic STi V3 - £14,500
Bugeye STi - £15,000
Blobeye STi - £17,000
JDM STi - £??

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

My own two cents as an owner of a recently upgraded Classic running considerably lower outputs than some of the cars on here!!! (about 320bhp and similar torque) is that I can certainly see why the surplus of power might not translate to a more enjoyable drive. I well recall taking mine down a favourite road after it had been modified and thinking, "I reckon I'm not too far short of a sensible power level for the road".

I was struck by just how much quicker the corners were coming at me and how much more I was having to concentrate on my braking points. Subjectively, in some ways, it actually felt like I may have done the route slower. Before the upgrade I really felt like I was extending the car and not having to brake so much, whereas now I had to back off earlier and brake more, so the perceived effort was higher and the progress more punctuated. Of course, in actuality, I was very much faster and the increased braking was due to the higher speeds attained in the straights.

It's definately a more exciting drive now, it's just that some of the perverse satisfaction you get from the feeling that you have more to give than the car is gone. Woudn't swap it though; power is addictive!! That said, I can easily see how beyond a certain point, increases in power are gained at the expense of involvement/overal enjoyment, which is rapidly being replaced by fear and an attack of the conscience!

Ns04

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Whereas if you want a reliable 320ish bhp on a classic/newage, what are we looking at? 2-3k? It's certainly a law of diminshing returns.

If you've got the dough though, and that's what you want then why not. Better than pi**ing the money up a wall at weekends or using it to fuel other addictions that'll probably kill you............a lot slower!!

Ns04

Martin2005

I will be looking for more power when my warranty expires early next year, so I have a couple of questions for those in the know.

1. I have an MY05 Type 25, my assumption is that I don't have any worries as far as internals are concerned?

2. How much driveablility do you sacrifice when going for big power gains, I'm looking to get to around 400/400ish (currently 350/373), the thing that makes the t25 what it is is the low down power and non laggy performance, can I keep this and get the power gains I want.

3. What would I need to change to get there?

Cheers

Martin

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

In your case Martin I'd talk to Powerstation about the turbo used on the MY06 T25, may need an uppipe change along with the turbo and remap.

GC8

Youre up against the turbo at 273 Andy. If I were you Id consider replacing the whole exhaust and fitting a high-flow catalytic convertor, fitting a better fuel pump and then Id look at turbochargers... Id choose Andy Forrest's TD04 hybrid for improved pumping without losing the low down spool; ts good for 320bhp with no real loss of responsiveness. If you go for a larger turbo who knows where it will all end.....?

Simon

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Agree,

Andy, if you've hanven't already, check out the following post.

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...xperience.html

This is a very good spec for a UK turbo WRX. All gain and no significant loss. Beyond this, it starts to get expensive!

To be honest, if you get your car to this stage and you're still thinking you need as opposed to want more power then you need a check up from the neck up! It'll be a very quick car!

Ns04

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Brilliant thread this one!!!

I am in the process (still) of upgrading my car.
The plan is Apexi ECU, 440's (maybe 550's) and headers, in addition to the FMIC, exhaust and fuel pump already fitted.
Am hoping for 320bhp, anything more will be a bonus.
(Brakes and suspension have already been upgraded)

I went out as a passenger on a trackday recently in 2 Escort Cosworths, one was 330bhp, the other 450+. Was suprised how similar they felt. Yes the 450bhp one was a bit quicker, but only marginal. (both had the same suspension set up, and were driven my very capable drivers)

GC8

Had you thought about Harvey Smith fettled OEM manifolds Gary? Most after-market tubular manifolds are made of plasticene.....

Simon

GazTheHat

While we're on about costs and BIG bhp. Just reading the Jap Perf mag and was reading about the RCM Gobstopper, 850 big ones (had already seen this online).

I wander how much that cost?


--------------------
Saturday scenerio:

TV: "In numerical order: 6, blam, 16, blam, 25, blam, 43, blam, 44, blam, 51, tadaa. The jackpot tonight is £9m"

Wifey: "Who you calling darling?"

GazTheHat: "Hello Olly, about that gobstopper!"

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

If i said the suspension alone is in excessive of £8k plus vat, that will give you a clue.

Phenominally prepared car.

David_Wallis

I would suspect you are looking at somewhere in the region of £125k+ if you factor the hours of prep and R&D that have gone into that car.

Worth it? Hell Yeah.

I know how much money has been spent on my own car over the last 5 years and its well over 30k

RMA26

Indeed

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

The ones we run arent made of plasticene