Question for the atheists
#152
Originally Posted by bugsti
However there are no atheists on a sinking ship!
Does this mean that those who seek God everyday are weak, helpless and vunerable? If so, I'm glad I'm not one of them.
BTW I apoligise to Mick for calling him mad and stupid (The stella artios took control of my keyboard) Those terms are insulting and I should not have used them on a public forum or otherwise.
#155
Originally Posted by GaryCat
This kind of line is often quoted and it only goes to show that it is weak, needy, helpless, vunerable people who seek God as a last resort.
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The Queen still looks chipper/non needy/not too helpless/fairly strong apart from her hip.She doesn't strike me as a mad old bat either.Why won't she say'Lets call it all a day,we must be mad?'
I still reckon the God followers are far more chilled out than the scientists,desperate to show how wrong they all must be.
#156
Jasey,
When my mother was buried a short while ago, the vast number of people there turned up because of respect for her outstanding character and because they were all genuinely sorry because she had died.
Les
When my mother was buried a short while ago, the vast number of people there turned up because of respect for her outstanding character and because they were all genuinely sorry because she had died.
Les
#157
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Don't think you see any of those kind of people following any faith.Quite the opposite I'd say.
The Queen still looks chipper/non needy/not too helpless/fairly strong apart from her hip.She doesn't strike me as a mad old bat either.Why won't she say'Lets call it all a day,we must be mad?'
I still reckon the God followers are far more chilled out than the scientists,desperate to show how wrong they all must be.
The Queen still looks chipper/non needy/not too helpless/fairly strong apart from her hip.She doesn't strike me as a mad old bat either.Why won't she say'Lets call it all a day,we must be mad?'
I still reckon the God followers are far more chilled out than the scientists,desperate to show how wrong they all must be.
She probably is a believer, and she certainly isn't needy, but she can still be wrong.
Plenty of very intelligent people in Germany in the 1930s believed lot's of things that were wrong............
Indoctrination is a powerful thing. Why do you think churches are soo keen to get people when they are young? It's hard to throw away a lifetime of belief, no matter how intelligent you are. Even Einstein wasn't right in everything he said, and he held onto those beliefs until the day he died.
Most 'God followers' are as chilled out as atheists? Maybe. However, atheists are unhindered by thoughts of retribution for not following 'the word', so they probably have a more chilled existence. If those thoughts do not bother you, then you don't truly believe anyway.
Atheists are not desperate to prove anything, they just just ask questions of theists, but never get a proper answer. So we ask again. I suppose we know know we will never get a decent answer, but it's interesting to see some of the replies.
Geezer
#158
Originally Posted by jasey
Same with my Brother. We just didn't have some **** telling us for half an hour he was going to a better place. Our Humanist simply reflected on his life and the hole that was being left now that he was gone .
I hope I wasn't misunderstood. What I am trying to say is - athiests should have nothing whatsoever with any religious ceremony!
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Originally Posted by jasey
People can believe what they want - just don't get upset when others don't agree with you .
#160
Originally Posted by lozgti
I still reckon the God followers are far more chilled out than the scientists,desperate to show how wrong they all must be.
And how chilled out is the average Muslim with paranoid scrutiny watching their every move?
How chilled are Israelis living next door to the (chilled?) palestinians.
Atheist scientists have nothing to prove - it is impossible to prove the non-existence of something so why try? All they can do is sum up the weight of evidence against God's existence and show how improbable it is. However theists do have the burden of proof on them if they want their beliefs to have any credibility
#161
Best you understand the religions that you quote GaryCat, before passing comment.
Quite right what you said Jasey, you must have been feeling like I did at the funeral.
Les
Quite right what you said Jasey, you must have been feeling like I did at the funeral.
Les
#162
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Originally Posted by lozgti
The Queen ....... doesn't strike me as a mad old bat either.
Anyway Logti, never mind about us scientific lab rats jumping of a sinking ship, what about the Q re dinosaurs and the age of the Earth ?
Last edited by andythejock01wrx; 01 December 2006 at 12:56 PM.
#163
Originally Posted by andythejock01wrx
never mind about us scientific lab rats jumping of a sinking ship, ?
For all the various holy books/different faiths thoughts on God I simply believe there is something far greater than just chemical reactions behind it.
Where did the chemical reactions come from? Who is ever going to present a sensible explanation for nothingness producing something.Even Hawkins keeps changing his mindIIRC
*still no one has given good reason why Christmas is 'celebrated' by non believers apart from 'it's nice to see the folks and have a beer'.
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Originally Posted by lozgti
*still no one has given good reason why Christmas is 'celebrated' by non believers apart from 'it's nice to see the folks and have a beer'.
As for Hitler & Stalin being humanists - George W Bush is a rabid Christian - he's about to take us into WW3 because God told him to .
Nutters can either have faith or not - it's not their faith / lack of it that makes them nutters .
#166
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Originally Posted by lozgti
Who is ever going to present a sensible explanation for nothingness producing something.
#167
Originally Posted by bugsti
Just a thought:
I may be wrong but were not Hitler and Stalin not Humanists?
If so, they did not do much for world peace.
I may be wrong but were not Hitler and Stalin not Humanists?
If so, they did not do much for world peace.
Stalin was most likely an atheist, certainly not a Humanist.
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Originally Posted by bugsti
Just a thought:
I may be wrong but were not Hitler and Stalin not Humanists?
If so, they did not do much for world peace.
I may be wrong but were not Hitler and Stalin not Humanists?
If so, they did not do much for world peace.
They were, however, athiests I believe.
#170
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I am quite happy believing without going home to analyse why I shouldn't believe and working hard on explaining why a very old book is not wholly accurate and I wouldn't expect it to be.
For all the various holy books/different faiths thoughts on God I simply believe there is something far greater than just chemical reactions behind it.
Where did the chemical reactions come from? Who is ever going to present a sensible explanation for nothingness producing something.Even Hawkins keeps changing his mindIIRC
*still no one has given good reason why Christmas is 'celebrated' by non believers apart from 'it's nice to see the folks and have a beer'.
For all the various holy books/different faiths thoughts on God I simply believe there is something far greater than just chemical reactions behind it.
Where did the chemical reactions come from? Who is ever going to present a sensible explanation for nothingness producing something.Even Hawkins keeps changing his mindIIRC
*still no one has given good reason why Christmas is 'celebrated' by non believers apart from 'it's nice to see the folks and have a beer'.
Atheists celebrate 'christmas' because it is a very old festival for celebrating the return to lengthening days after the winter solstice. Even the Church admits that Jesus was born in september (supposedly), and it's quite clear that 25th December was adopted as an offical birthday to allow pagans to convert without giving up their old festivals. The 25th Dec is the birthday of Mithras.
All the symbology of Christmas is pagan. The only remotely christian thing about it is the birth day of Christ, and that is wrong!
You may want to look up the origins of Easter as well.
In fact, look up any facet of the story of Jesus and you will find it is stolen from earlier cults/religions/beliefs.
Geezer
#172
Originally Posted by Geezer
That's a typically lazy way of thinking that theists do.
Surely it is not lazy thinking if you are simply accepting what you believe is right.There is nothing else to do except maybe jog on the spot and look busy whilst believing
It seems to me that those that go to huge lengths to prove it can't be so (the non lazy ) are the ones searching for something or have a need to find something,not just a scientific hunt for the origins of time
If not,why don't they give the whole religion thing a wide berth ? Why is that Dawkins chap so ultra keen too? Does it matter.
Anyway,Christmas soon
Last edited by lozgti; 04 December 2006 at 07:54 AM.
#173
Actually being an atheist and sceptic I used to be constantly hounded by believers in religion and the paranormal trying to tell me how they're uncle/grandma/cat saw/was healed by a spirit/guardian angel/god and how it must be true because their dog/neighbour saw it.
Now I just keep quiet.
Acutally Im not an atheist, I don't bother considering the question.
Now I just keep quiet.
Acutally Im not an atheist, I don't bother considering the question.
#174
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Originally Posted by lozgti
But what is wrong with acceptance?
Surely it is not lazy thinking if you are simply accepting what you believe is right.There is nothing else to do except maybe jog on the spot and look busy whilst believing
It seems to me that those that go to huge lengths to prove it can't be so (the non lazy ) are the ones searching for something or have a need to find something,not just a scientific hunt for the origins of time
If not,why don't they give the whole religion thing a wide birth ? Why is that Dawkins chap so ultra keen too? Does it matter.
Anyway,Christmas soon
Surely it is not lazy thinking if you are simply accepting what you believe is right.There is nothing else to do except maybe jog on the spot and look busy whilst believing
It seems to me that those that go to huge lengths to prove it can't be so (the non lazy ) are the ones searching for something or have a need to find something,not just a scientific hunt for the origins of time
If not,why don't they give the whole religion thing a wide birth ? Why is that Dawkins chap so ultra keen too? Does it matter.
Anyway,Christmas soon
I think the reason people like Dawking are becoming more vocal is that the Church (and indeed most organised religions) are nasty institutions that have supressed human thinking for centuries, and it's time we broke free of them.
If people started to think how to solve the worlds problems, instead of telling us why we have them and how we face damnation, the world may actually become a better place......
Geezer
#175
GaryCat,
The Catholic religion has a system in which your sins can be forgiven and wiped off the slate.
In any case if I had committed a bad act, I would not need to be told to make me regret it in later life just out of common decency.
Les
The Catholic religion has a system in which your sins can be forgiven and wiped off the slate.
In any case if I had committed a bad act, I would not need to be told to make me regret it in later life just out of common decency.
Les
#176
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Originally Posted by lozgti
I am quite happy believing without going home to analyse why I shouldn't believe and working hard on explaining why a very old book is not wholly accurate and I wouldn't expect it to be.
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And that's what is so add about people who believe. They are either in denial, or actually realise that the questions they ask are unanswerable unless they are willing to admit what a load of tosh it all is, so they just give some half arsed answer and expect us to accept it.
Geezer
Geezer
#178
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There's two questions I ask religious folks. I NEVER get a straight answer, always some evasive garbage or another question etc. NEVER a straight answer.
If god is Omnipotent...
Therefore, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he himself cannot lift?
If god is Omnipresent...
Therefore, does he exist and look over you in hell?
If god is Omnipotent...
Therefore, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he himself cannot lift?
If god is Omnipresent...
Therefore, does he exist and look over you in hell?
#179
If he is omnipotent he would not have to lift any rocks, he could raise them without all that old fashioned heaving etc.
He must exist if he is omnipotent and he might well pop in to have a bevy with Satan on a slow news day.
Les
He must exist if he is omnipotent and he might well pop in to have a bevy with Satan on a slow news day.
Les