New Focus RS spied
27 October 2006, 02:55 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by jeremy
The specific words from november are here:
FORD EUROPE AND PREMIER AUTOMOTIVE GROUP (PAG)
The 2005 first-quarter combined pre-tax profit for Ford Europe and PAG automotive operations was $4 million, compared with a profit of $38 million for the year-ago period, excluding special items, a year-over-year deterioration of $34 million.
Ford Europe: Ford Europe's first-quarter pre-tax profit was $59 million, compared with a pre-tax profit of $5 million, excluding special items, during the 2004 period. The improvement of $54 million primarily reflected higher volume and ongoing cost reductions. Ford Europe's sales in the first quarter increased to $7.7 billion, compared with $6.5 billion during the first quarter of 2004.
Premier Automotive Group: PAG reported a pre-tax loss of $55 million for the first quarter, compared with a pre-tax profit of $33 million for the first quarter of 2004. The decline in results primarily reflected unfavorable currency exchange, offset partially by lower costs. First-quarter sales for PAG were $7.6 billion, compared with $6.8 billion a year ago.
FORD EUROPE AND PREMIER AUTOMOTIVE GROUP (PAG)
The 2005 first-quarter combined pre-tax profit for Ford Europe and PAG automotive operations was $4 million, compared with a profit of $38 million for the year-ago period, excluding special items, a year-over-year deterioration of $34 million.
Ford Europe: Ford Europe's first-quarter pre-tax profit was $59 million, compared with a pre-tax profit of $5 million, excluding special items, during the 2004 period. The improvement of $54 million primarily reflected higher volume and ongoing cost reductions. Ford Europe's sales in the first quarter increased to $7.7 billion, compared with $6.5 billion during the first quarter of 2004.
Premier Automotive Group: PAG reported a pre-tax loss of $55 million for the first quarter, compared with a pre-tax profit of $33 million for the first quarter of 2004. The decline in results primarily reflected unfavorable currency exchange, offset partially by lower costs. First-quarter sales for PAG were $7.6 billion, compared with $6.8 billion a year ago.
Or am I wrong?
27 October 2006, 03:02 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by stilover
Why would Ford us the Haldex System???
Don't they have there own 4WD system that they could, if needed, develop to todays standards. (Don't know whats in the Volvo AWD)
Remember also, that while Audi use the Haldex system, they don't use it on all there cars. The RS4 for example is a proper 4WD system. No doubt the S6, RS6, and new R8 will adopt this system too.
I think it's a bit unfair to say Ford WILL use the Haldex system (or similar) and call the car cr@p, even before they've developed it.
Just because the Impreza and Evo have 4WD, that doesn't mean that anything Ford produce will be **** in comparison.
Don't they have there own 4WD system that they could, if needed, develop to todays standards. (Don't know whats in the Volvo AWD)
Remember also, that while Audi use the Haldex system, they don't use it on all there cars. The RS4 for example is a proper 4WD system. No doubt the S6, RS6, and new R8 will adopt this system too.
I think it's a bit unfair to say Ford WILL use the Haldex system (or similar) and call the car cr@p, even before they've developed it.
Just because the Impreza and Evo have 4WD, that doesn't mean that anything Ford produce will be **** in comparison.
27 October 2006, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MJW
I was under the impression that the Focus (even the new shape one) couldn't have 4WD due to engineering difficulties and the fact that the Focus was designed ground-up as FWD and therefore there would be no 4WD RS. So I heard at the last round of RS speculation anyway ...
The Mk II Chassis was designed to incorporate 4WD. So a 4WD RS is very likely.
27 October 2006, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MJW
I was under the impression that the Focus (even the new shape one) couldn't have 4WD due to engineering difficulties and the fact that the Focus was designed ground-up as FWD and therefore there would be no 4WD RS. So I heard at the last round of RS speculation anyway ...
The focus uses a common platform with many other vehicles owned by the Ford brand i.e. Volvo & Mazda.
Therefore there is no issue of the Focus not going 4wd it's just the beancounters make the decision as to whether the whole project is viable and able to make Ford a profit at the end, unlike the Focus RS mk1 which went horribly wrong.
27 October 2006, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MTayler
The focus uses a common platform with many other vehicles owned by the Ford brand i.e. Volvo & Mazda.
Therefore there is no issue of the Focus not going 4wd it's just the beancounters make the decision as to whether the whole project is viable and able to make Ford a profit at the end, unlike the Focus RS mk1 which went horribly wrong.
Therefore there is no issue of the Focus not going 4wd it's just the beancounters make the decision as to whether the whole project is viable and able to make Ford a profit at the end, unlike the Focus RS mk1 which went horribly wrong.
Cost to make = Approx £27,000.
Price in Showroom = £20,000.
2501 cars produced x £7000 = £17,507,000 Loss. D'oh
27 October 2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stilover
£17.5m wrong in fact.
Cost to make = Approx £27,000.
Price in Showroom = £20,000.
2501 cars produced x £7000 = £17,507,000 Loss. D'oh
Cost to make = Approx £27,000.
Price in Showroom = £20,000.
2501 cars produced x £7000 = £17,507,000 Loss. D'oh
4500 of them built in total!
27 October 2006, 11:41 PM
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StiLover,
"Why would Ford us the Haldex System???
Don't they have there own 4WD system that they could, if needed, develop to todays standards. (Don't know whats in the Volvo AWD)
Remember also, that while Audi use the Haldex system, they don't use it on all there cars. The RS4 for example is a proper 4WD system. No doubt the S6, RS6, and new R8 will adopt this system too.
I think it's a bit unfair to say Ford WILL use the Haldex system (or similar) and call the car cr@p, even before they've developed it."
We all hope and prey that Ford come to their senses and use a proper full time 4WD system for the Focus. However the odds of Ford NOT using the Haldex are very slim as that is what they use now for every new 4WD car/minivan they make- ford 500, ford fusion, focus minivan, and especially so as that is what Ford use in every Volvo they make. Thats the problem with Ford they won't go that extra bit to make the car great, and that I believe is the reason the RS will be nothing more than a faster ST with the more unpredicable Haldex system messing up the drive out of corners. Again I hope that Ford does not do this, but have lost most trust in them and have no reason to believe they will be making anything special. I do think the Ford GT is a special car however this car is somewhere around 100k which is downright silly to make if you don't have anything thats great at cheaper levels as well.
"Why would Ford us the Haldex System???
Don't they have there own 4WD system that they could, if needed, develop to todays standards. (Don't know whats in the Volvo AWD)
Remember also, that while Audi use the Haldex system, they don't use it on all there cars. The RS4 for example is a proper 4WD system. No doubt the S6, RS6, and new R8 will adopt this system too.
I think it's a bit unfair to say Ford WILL use the Haldex system (or similar) and call the car cr@p, even before they've developed it."
We all hope and prey that Ford come to their senses and use a proper full time 4WD system for the Focus. However the odds of Ford NOT using the Haldex are very slim as that is what they use now for every new 4WD car/minivan they make- ford 500, ford fusion, focus minivan, and especially so as that is what Ford use in every Volvo they make. Thats the problem with Ford they won't go that extra bit to make the car great, and that I believe is the reason the RS will be nothing more than a faster ST with the more unpredicable Haldex system messing up the drive out of corners. Again I hope that Ford does not do this, but have lost most trust in them and have no reason to believe they will be making anything special. I do think the Ford GT is a special car however this car is somewhere around 100k which is downright silly to make if you don't have anything thats great at cheaper levels as well.
28 October 2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Look at the front brake discs, would they fit them to a Diesel ST Focus.
Me thinks not.
Me thinks not.
Cheers
Lee
28 October 2006, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by logiclee
Depends if its running the new 2007 Mondeo ST 2.2 twin turbo diesel with 200bhp and 300lbft.
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
Since when did the conversation lead to twin turbo Mondeo's
.People are quick to forget that Ford's are recognised as being one of the best companies at chassis development and in most if not all cross vehicle tests a Ford vehicle will come out on top with regards to this area WITHOUT 4wd, so it should mean if they do bring a 4wd system out it will have reputation at stake
.
29 October 2006, 10:54 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by MTayler
Since when did the conversation lead to twin turbo Mondeo's .
.
. .
Ford do have a 200bhp, 300lbft diesel available.
Cheers
Lee
29 October 2006, 11:29 AM
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Have you looked at the Photo's? No TDCI sits that low, and has such negative camber angle on the wheels. I think the guy would be able to tell the sound of a Petrol engined car compared to an Oil Burner. Plus, there has to be something in the way he said the how it accelerated up the road. Surerly most people would be able to spot a quicker car tearing up the road.
They are not allowed legally because they have to be able to have a wheel clamp fitted under the arches!
The way it accelerated up the road? Surely a normal st with a map would do that.
4 wheel drive??? how the hell can he tell that!!!!
Dump valve? No way they would fit a vta dump valve on a new car. Too chavvy and will limit the market.
All this points to a modded car.
Now it might well be a test car but I just love the thought that it is just a normal guy who has modded his car and gave the finger to the photographer while thinking why the **** is that **** taking pics of me!!!
29 October 2006, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by logiclee
Depends if its running the new 2007 Mondeo ST 2.2 twin turbo diesel with 200bhp and 300lbft.
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
I was led to believe from someone that worked on development of the puma 4 cylinder TDCI engine that if Ford cast extra support into the roof of the combustion chamber then it could produce a hell of a lot more power. IIRC the power figure mentioned that the cylinder head failed around the 270bhp mark but I can't remember the actual figure that he mentioned. Ford will obviously limit the max power output way below this to prevent failures.
29 October 2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dazc2
I doubt the 2.2 4 cylinder will be twin turbo. Ford do have a V6 2.7 twin turbo available though.
I was led to believe from someone that worked on development of the puma 4 cylinder TDCI engine that if Ford cast extra support into the roof of the combustion chamber then it could produce a hell of a lot more power. IIRC the power figure mentioned that the cylinder head failed around the 270bhp mark but I can't remember the actual figure that he mentioned. Ford will obviously limit the max power output way below this to prevent failures.
I was led to believe from someone that worked on development of the puma 4 cylinder TDCI engine that if Ford cast extra support into the roof of the combustion chamber then it could produce a hell of a lot more power. IIRC the power figure mentioned that the cylinder head failed around the 270bhp mark but I can't remember the actual figure that he mentioned. Ford will obviously limit the max power output way below this to prevent failures.
The new Mondeo will run uprated versions of the Focus/Cmax/Smax/Galaxy/Peugeot diesels not the current Mondeo's Ford Puma diesel. The 2.0 is supposed to have three output levels from 100bhp to 140bhp. Two new 2.2's will be available, one will be a single turbo with 175bhp and the other a twin sequential setup with 200bhp, both versions will output 300lbft of torque.
Vauxhaull had their four cylinder twin sequential turbo setup running in old Vectra's before Ford developed theirs but it looks like Ford will beat Vauxhaull fitting it to a production car.
Sorry for going off topic BTW.
Cheers
Lee
29 October 2006, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Modeo ST220'S dont have grooved discs that big even now, so there is no way that thing has a smoker under the bonnet.
The car in the pics not running any standard Ford discs.
But then again if it's a Petrol RS or high powered Diesel ST it's not running any current Ford production engine either.
So it's either a modded car or a Ford project that has bits that may or may not be on the car when it reaches production. All a bit pointless really, and it's been said before if it is a Ford project there is no way it will be sold that low.
Cheers
Lee
30 October 2006, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by logiclee
Ford already have it.
The new Mondeo will run uprated versions of the Focus/Cmax/Smax/Galaxy/Peugeot diesels not the current Mondeo's Ford Puma diesel. The 2.0 is supposed to have three output levels from 100bhp to 140bhp. Two new 2.2's will be available, one will be a single turbo with 175bhp and the other a twin sequential setup with 200bhp, both versions will output 300lbft of torque.
Vauxhaull had their four cylinder twin sequential turbo setup running in old Vectra's before Ford developed theirs but it looks like Ford will beat Vauxhaull fitting it to a production car.
Sorry for going off topic BTW.
Cheers
Lee
The new Mondeo will run uprated versions of the Focus/Cmax/Smax/Galaxy/Peugeot diesels not the current Mondeo's Ford Puma diesel. The 2.0 is supposed to have three output levels from 100bhp to 140bhp. Two new 2.2's will be available, one will be a single turbo with 175bhp and the other a twin sequential setup with 200bhp, both versions will output 300lbft of torque.
Vauxhaull had their four cylinder twin sequential turbo setup running in old Vectra's before Ford developed theirs but it looks like Ford will beat Vauxhaull fitting it to a production car.
Sorry for going off topic BTW.
Cheers
Lee
2.2 twin turbo diesel, funny never heard of that one and I work in research & development, FoMoCo
.Must be keeping it a secret from me as well
.
30 October 2006, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MTayler
2.2 twin turbo diesel, funny never heard of that one and I work in research & development, FoMoCo .
Must be keeping it a secret from me as well .
.Must be keeping it a secret from me as well
.Come on, spill the beans ................... Please.
30 October 2006, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MTayler
2.2 twin turbo diesel, funny never heard of that one and I work in research & development, FoMoCo .
Must be keeping it a secret from me as well .
.Must be keeping it a secret from me as well
.The unit is already used by Peugeot, the 2.2 is offered as a twin turbo in the 607, the first turbo is already producing full torque at only 1500rpm with the second turbo coming in at 2600rpm. The first version of this engine, as installed in he 607, only has 170bhp but Ford expect 200bhp for the new Mondeo by the end of 2007.
Major Investment for Phase 4
Phase 4 of the co-operation has seen a joint investment of €Euros 332 million for the development of two new engines.
Ford Motor Company will produce a dedicated 2.2-litre commercial diesel engine optimised for durability and ruggedness for the Ford Transit and for PSA Peugeot Citroën's upper range LCVs (Boxer and Relay), from its advanced Dagenham engine plant in Essex, England at the rate of up to 200,000 units per year.
PSA Peugeot Citroën will produce a 2.2-litre premium, high output diesel engine for both companies' medium/large and executive models at the rate of up to 200,000 units per year at its Trémery plant, Moselle, France, the world's largest diesel engine facility.
Phase 4 of the co-operation has seen a joint investment of €Euros 332 million for the development of two new engines.
Ford Motor Company will produce a dedicated 2.2-litre commercial diesel engine optimised for durability and ruggedness for the Ford Transit and for PSA Peugeot Citroën's upper range LCVs (Boxer and Relay), from its advanced Dagenham engine plant in Essex, England at the rate of up to 200,000 units per year.
PSA Peugeot Citroën will produce a 2.2-litre premium, high output diesel engine for both companies' medium/large and executive models at the rate of up to 200,000 units per year at its Trémery plant, Moselle, France, the world's largest diesel engine facility.
Lee
Last edited by logiclee; 30 October 2006 at 05:21 PM.
31 October 2006, 09:23 AM
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If PSA / Citroen make it then it must be true, does'nt necessarily mean it will end up in the Mondeo.
At the end of the day motoring magazines only speculate what and when something may happen,until that it is something gets nearer to launch date.
Hence all this current fuss over the RS........will it come out or won't it .
At the end of the day motoring magazines only speculate what and when something may happen,until that it is something gets nearer to launch date.
Hence all this current fuss over the RS........will it come out or won't it
.
31 October 2006, 10:03 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by MTayler
At the end of the day motoring magazines only speculate what and when something may happen,until that it is something gets nearer to launch date.
Hence all this current fuss over the RS........will it come out or won't it .
Hence all this current fuss over the RS........will it come out or won't it
.
Spoil sport.
31 October 2006, 04:39 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by MTayler
If PSA / Citroen make it then it must be true, does'nt necessarily mean it will end up in the Mondeo.
.
.
Ford have refused to rule out a V6 diesel Mondeo but have not confirmed it either, so that one is up in the air. Peugeot do use the V6 diesel in the 407 coupe.
The S-Max will also get the 2.2TT but probably after the Mondeo launch.
The Focus and C-Max engine bay is supposed to be able to take the 2.2TT although Ford have not made any statements on this topic. If it does fit perhaps Ford do have development cars on the road.
Perhaps our Ford guy could ask a few questions now he knows Ford do have a 2.2 Twin Turbo available and that Ford will be using it next year.
Cheers
Lee
Last edited by logiclee; 31 October 2006 at 04:42 PM.
31 October 2006, 05:35 PM
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As yet still no 2.2TT Mondeo, but it's early days yet and launch I believe is not until August or thereabouts so still plenty of time for prototype variants to come through before then.
Still have not heard anymore about the RS only the same speculation everyone else has heard/read.
Have to be careful what I say as big brother watches from time to time .
Still have not heard anymore about the RS only the same speculation everyone else has heard/read.
Have to be careful what I say as big brother watches from time to time
.
31 October 2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AudiLover
another fcukin moron.
You might prefer to drive an RS4 in preference to an Evo 9 everyday, but the truth of the matter is that you're never likely to be able to afford either of them, so it's a moot point.
As for the subject of this thread, can't understand the appeal of Fords - I've had a couple over the years, but only because, like AudiLover, I couldn't afford anything better at the time.
31 October 2006, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dazc2
What do you class as better?