honda integra dc5 v scoob sti
#31
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Imi, you're missing the point
Its like saying why by a scoob and mod it when you can buy a Skyline.
A lot of us like to tinker. There's no harm in adding FI to Honda's. Its an easy way to bolt on another 100 bhp and can only cost about £3k.
Mine:
MB
Its like saying why by a scoob and mod it when you can buy a Skyline.
A lot of us like to tinker. There's no harm in adding FI to Honda's. Its an easy way to bolt on another 100 bhp and can only cost about £3k.
Mine:
MB
that is proper sik bad boy stuf
That must be awesome to drive now
#32
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Didnt get it running dij. Lack of patience! There's 4 guys on S2ki.com in the Uk that have bought similar kits and are fitting them right now though
0-100 in 10 secs is realistic I think.
MB
0-100 in 10 secs is realistic I think.
MB
#34
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Imi, you're missing the point
Its like saying why by a scoob and mod it when you can buy a Skyline.
A lot of us like to tinker. There's no harm in adding FI to Honda's. Its an easy way to bolt on another 100 bhp and can only cost about £3k.
Mine:
MB
Its like saying why by a scoob and mod it when you can buy a Skyline.
A lot of us like to tinker. There's no harm in adding FI to Honda's. Its an easy way to bolt on another 100 bhp and can only cost about £3k.
Mine:
MB
very popular mod in the US as well.....
Enjoy the car - its all about power to weight > and clearly the s2k is a great base for that.
#35
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Yes it was my S2000 - now sold and have an FQ300. The beauty of a SC is that it totally keeps the characteristics of the linear VTEC power. It just shifts the power curve up a load!
MG - I made the mistake of fitting it while using my car as a daily drive. You need a spare car or a solid week off really. Decided it wasnt for me and took it off.
MB
MG - I made the mistake of fitting it while using my car as a daily drive. You need a spare car or a solid week off really. Decided it wasnt for me and took it off.
MB
#36
VTEC and Linear - hmm....thats a bit strange. iVTEC is more linear, Vtecs were never linear.
S2K is a different story, its a magical package for a fraction of the price of a NSX. Great handling, amazing engine, gearbox and steering response.
The thread is about the Integra and I still maintain, force inducing a FWD is rather stupid.
S2K is a different story, its a magical package for a fraction of the price of a NSX. Great handling, amazing engine, gearbox and steering response.
The thread is about the Integra and I still maintain, force inducing a FWD is rather stupid.
#37
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Imi have you owned either of these cars?
Yes VTEC is linear. The power before and after it is straight - not like a turbo, which is not linear. A bit of a pointless argument though.
Im not sure that saying FI on a FWD is "stupid" either...
MB
Yes VTEC is linear. The power before and after it is straight - not like a turbo, which is not linear. A bit of a pointless argument though.
Im not sure that saying FI on a FWD is "stupid" either...
MB
#38
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Imi have you owned either of these cars? MB
Yes VTEC is linear. The power before and after it is straight - not like a turbo, which is not linear. A bit of a pointless argument though.
Im not sure that saying FI on a FWD is "stupid" either...
MB
Yes VTEC is linear. The power before and after it is straight - not like a turbo, which is not linear. A bit of a pointless argument though.
Im not sure that saying FI on a FWD is "stupid" either...
MB
FI on a FWD = understeer heaven = not to mention boring = LOL - But thats ok / we agree to disagree.
#39
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There is a spike, but its still linear, it doenst arc off.
Its 6000 rpm on the F20C. Have to own one and find out
MB
Its 6000 rpm on the F20C. Have to own one and find out
MB
#41
I think 260 is a little generous for the spec listed. Everyone I know running that spec seems to be around the 240/250 mark, at the fly. However I am nitpicking, iether way you look at it still pretty good, and almost as much as my street kitted JRSC'd CTR, and on the road i bet there would be nowt in it.
Yeah yeah i know I have commited sacrelege and F/I'd a Honda...shock horror . And I drive a FWD so therefore I am a noob...eh imi As for understeering, well it does....but you REALLY have to push it for it to do that...is it boring...hell no....
Still could be worse, I could drive a Supra, and have to grow more hairs on my chest and get a shinny medallion
As for the original post, well I drive both an STI currently and a FWD type R and enjoy them both a lot. Very different though they are. I have a wee bit more fun in the Honda, as it requires a little more effort, and you feel; when you get it right, that it rewards a bit more. The Scooby feels so much more different, a little easier to press on with but not really quicker, though sometimes it feels it due to the power delivery..except at the top end.
In the wet I take the STI if the wife lets me, and she is not using it , oh I feel safer knowing the wife drives the Scooby.
The DC5 is a little more poised and direct than the CTR, better steering feel, and a LOT rarer than both the Civic, and the Scoob...so you get a little exclusivity. Oh and better looking as well. If you have a choice get the facelifted Teg as they tweeked the suspension which improved things further.
As for linnear :
That'll do.
Yeah yeah i know I have commited sacrelege and F/I'd a Honda...shock horror . And I drive a FWD so therefore I am a noob...eh imi As for understeering, well it does....but you REALLY have to push it for it to do that...is it boring...hell no....
Still could be worse, I could drive a Supra, and have to grow more hairs on my chest and get a shinny medallion
As for the original post, well I drive both an STI currently and a FWD type R and enjoy them both a lot. Very different though they are. I have a wee bit more fun in the Honda, as it requires a little more effort, and you feel; when you get it right, that it rewards a bit more. The Scooby feels so much more different, a little easier to press on with but not really quicker, though sometimes it feels it due to the power delivery..except at the top end.
In the wet I take the STI if the wife lets me, and she is not using it , oh I feel safer knowing the wife drives the Scooby.
The DC5 is a little more poised and direct than the CTR, better steering feel, and a LOT rarer than both the Civic, and the Scoob...so you get a little exclusivity. Oh and better looking as well. If you have a choice get the facelifted Teg as they tweeked the suspension which improved things further.
As for linnear :
That'll do.
Last edited by super6four; 19 November 2006 at 10:37 PM.
#42
super - glad you are pleased with YOUR choice
I love the s2ks - could live with the lack of torque and low end power for everyday driving, but then that can be solved by a SC. As a package, its damn hard to beat the s2k.
and btw: if you want a rewarding drive, try out a RWD, you might never look back
I love the s2ks - could live with the lack of torque and low end power for everyday driving, but then that can be solved by a SC. As a package, its damn hard to beat the s2k.
and btw: if you want a rewarding drive, try out a RWD, you might never look back
#43
Originally Posted by imi
super - glad you are pleased with YOUR choice
I love the s2ks - could live with the lack of torque and low end power for everyday driving, but then that can be solved by a SC. As a package, its damn hard to beat the s2k.
and btw: if you want a rewarding drive, try out a RWD, you might never look back
I love the s2ks - could live with the lack of torque and low end power for everyday driving, but then that can be solved by a SC. As a package, its damn hard to beat the s2k.
and btw: if you want a rewarding drive, try out a RWD, you might never look back
Next for me will be another AE86 as it happens set up for Grip on TB's. Probably. What the hell I always change my mind, pearls of the job I guess
Last edited by super6four; 19 November 2006 at 10:43 PM.
#44
ahhh super - that plot is your DC5 plot. a dc5 is i-Vtec and not Vtec
the s2k is NOT linear as I was trying to highlight....
AE86 - WOW - would love to have a go in those...so damn light - like a go-kart
the s2k is NOT linear as I was trying to highlight....
AE86 - WOW - would love to have a go in those...so damn light - like a go-kart
#45
Originally Posted by imi
ahhh super - that plot is your DC5 plot. a dc5 is i-Vtec and not Vtec
the s2k is NOT linear as I was trying to highlight....
AE86 - WOW - would love to have a go in those...so damn light - like a go-kart
the s2k is NOT linear as I was trying to highlight....
AE86 - WOW - would love to have a go in those...so damn light - like a go-kart
Nope it is my CTR plot, similar engine though as the teg, and tbh looks like that because of some excellent mapping by Dan at Abbey m/s. You can very easy tweek out the dip at crossover on a standard K20 using K-Pro....though I guess it is no longer standard...if you know what I mean.
I will add that the S2000 has one of the most linnear power deliveries of any N/A car I have driven, period...it does not feel like a B16/18 say. You do not feel the crossover in the same way.
#47
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Lack of torque and low end power inst solved by a S/C!
It begins to gain at 4k, but as the blower is driven off the crank its the VTEC cross over and beyond when its allowed to drink more air.
You haven't answered if you have owned any of the cars discussed here?
Good discussion though.
MB
It begins to gain at 4k, but as the blower is driven off the crank its the VTEC cross over and beyond when its allowed to drink more air.
You haven't answered if you have owned any of the cars discussed here?
Good discussion though.
MB
#48
Yep, 4psi (enough for me). I drive it between Oxford and Bath everyday on commute. And I have done 79k, 40k with the JRSC on. I find the Charger complements the engine very well. Though a (small) part wishes I had kept her all motor, I do like the bit of extra torque.
One of my friends has just completed work on a K24 bottom end (K20 head) with a turbo and has over 600 bhp, a little too much for me but If I know him he will keep it drivable, well as drivable as it is possible to be, in a FWD car.
One of my friends has just completed work on a K24 bottom end (K20 head) with a turbo and has over 600 bhp, a little too much for me but If I know him he will keep it drivable, well as drivable as it is possible to be, in a FWD car.
#49
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Lack of torque and low end power inst solved by a S/C!
It begins to gain at 4k, but as the blower is driven off the crank its the VTEC cross over and beyond when its allowed to drink more air.
You haven't answered if you have owned any of the cars discussed here?
Good discussion though.
MB
It begins to gain at 4k, but as the blower is driven off the crank its the VTEC cross over and beyond when its allowed to drink more air.
You haven't answered if you have owned any of the cars discussed here?
Good discussion though.
MB
My *** agrees with the above, as much as I liked the Stock motor....It is a lot more driveable...really pulling hard out of corners, without so much gear stirring. Of course If I want to really push her
#51
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Lack of torque and low end power inst solved by a S/C!
lesson to be learnt - how bloody important is the mapper
#52
Originally Posted by imi
Wont rub it in cause super has already backed up my point.
lesson to be learnt - how bloody important is the mapper
lesson to be learnt - how bloody important is the mapper
Balance is the key word I guess. I'll leave all the really big power tuning to the RWD and you yon w/d boys
So I'll be content to sticking behind you lot....just maybe a bit closer than you think .
#53
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
Or a fwd car, they are just sooooooooo boring to drive its unbelievable, if you were a REAL man you would have a rwd car but instead you go for the "easy" fwd "boring boring boring" option, hey there you go, call 4wd boring but you drive a fwd, you cant speak
Tony
Tony
Tony,
With respect, as you have demonstrated on prior threads that you have a problem understanding the finer points of understeer and oversteer perhaps you would be best placed not to comment on this thread
Its pretty much a given that the 4wd performance saloons are far from exciting. Hugely competent but far from exciting.
A standard Integra R will be more involving to drive quickly than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will have better chassis balance and will impart much more "feel" through its controls than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will lap the majority of tracks faster than a standard Subaru with similar power to weight ratio (Granted, in the dry, where traction is not an issue) It will resist understeer less, for sure.
It will also lap faster than many RWD cars of similar power to weight ratio and be a hugely involving experience.
All despite having front wheel drive. And all just as the factory delivered them.
#54
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Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
Tony,
With respect, as you have demonstrated on prior threads that you have a problem understanding the finer points of understeer and oversteer perhaps you would be best placed not to comment on this thread
Its pretty much a given that the 4wd performance saloons are far from exciting. Hugely competent but far from exciting.
A standard Integra R will be more involving to drive quickly than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will have better chassis balance and will impart much more "feel" through its controls than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will lap the majority of tracks faster than a standard Subaru with similar power to weight ratio (Granted, in the dry, where traction is not an issue) It will resist understeer less, for sure.
It will also lap faster than many RWD cars of similar power to weight ratio and be a hugely involving experience.
All despite having front wheel drive. And all just as the factory delivered them.
With respect, as you have demonstrated on prior threads that you have a problem understanding the finer points of understeer and oversteer perhaps you would be best placed not to comment on this thread
Its pretty much a given that the 4wd performance saloons are far from exciting. Hugely competent but far from exciting.
A standard Integra R will be more involving to drive quickly than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will have better chassis balance and will impart much more "feel" through its controls than any standard Subaru.
A standard Integra R will lap the majority of tracks faster than a standard Subaru with similar power to weight ratio (Granted, in the dry, where traction is not an issue) It will resist understeer less, for sure.
It will also lap faster than many RWD cars of similar power to weight ratio and be a hugely involving experience.
All despite having front wheel drive. And all just as the factory delivered them.
#56
Fair point imi, however surely the point the likes of the Teg, Clio Williams, Pug 205 GTI, Clio Cup, Lotus Elan etc, is that despite the general convention regarding FWD being dull.....that you CAN actually have a car, powered through the front wheels, drive it and have a grin on your face...and in a few cases be just as quick (if not quicker than) their RWD and 4WD compatriots.
Of course for ultimate response and to go as quick as you can, especially round a track, you need to drive the rear wheels, no-one I am sure would deny that.
Though I'd still be quite happy to go up againsed you and your supra on a track or strip
(actually that is a lie...I have done 79k with my Charged CTR and am still on the original set of front brake disks proving I drive like my gran)
Of course for ultimate response and to go as quick as you can, especially round a track, you need to drive the rear wheels, no-one I am sure would deny that.
Though I'd still be quite happy to go up againsed you and your supra on a track or strip
(actually that is a lie...I have done 79k with my Charged CTR and am still on the original set of front brake disks proving I drive like my gran)
Last edited by super6four; 22 November 2006 at 01:24 PM.
#57
BTW, my brother has an ITR - I HAVE driven is HARD and I can tell you that it might not be the fastest car I have driven, but it did leave me with a smile on my face. My prelude was the same, although heavier and slower than his ITR (braking + twisties ) - althought I never admitted that to him
When driving hard, its great fun to be in high revving lightweight cars like the ITR and s2k - Shame you cant drive like that everyday
Its fine though, I prefer my Sup, its what I have and drive everyday at the moment.
When driving hard, its great fun to be in high revving lightweight cars like the ITR and s2k - Shame you cant drive like that everyday
Its fine though, I prefer my Sup, its what I have and drive everyday at the moment.
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Originally Posted by imi
What about a FWD ITR vs a RWD ITR (if there was such a thing) - identical apart from the drive, which would be quicker and MORE involving / exciting ??
Belive it or not there are factory produced 4WD ITR (DC-2) but not common and not with the Typre R engine. Bit stupid really, justgood for those using the car as a daily comute in icy/muddy areas
#59
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Got any info Roojai? Not heard of that before.
If Honda brought out an AWD turbo, I reckon it would be a real big seller. Guess they have no rally pedigree to back it up though - but wouldnt bother me.
Styled on the Mugen legend would be nice
MB
If Honda brought out an AWD turbo, I reckon it would be a real big seller. Guess they have no rally pedigree to back it up though - but wouldnt bother me.
Styled on the Mugen legend would be nice
MB
Last edited by Dark Blue Mark; 26 November 2006 at 11:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
Tony,
With respect, as you have demonstrated on prior threads that you have a problem understanding the finer points of understeer and oversteer perhaps you would be best placed not to comment on this thread
With respect, as you have demonstrated on prior threads that you have a problem understanding the finer points of understeer and oversteer perhaps you would be best placed not to comment on this thread
Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
Its pretty much a given that the 4wd performance saloons are far from exciting. Hugely competent but far from exciting.
Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
A standard Integra R will be more involving to drive quickly than any standard Subaru.
Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
A standard Integra R will have better chassis balance and will impart much more "feel" through its controls than any standard Subaru.
Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
A standard Integra R will lap the majority of tracks faster than a standard Subaru with similar power to weight ratio (Granted, in the dry, where traction is not an issue) It will resist understeer less, for sure.
The latest Subaru's have virtually no understeer, fwd cars even with lsd's will still understeer.... let you figure that one out but understeer is built into most cars (esp fwd ones) for a reason
Originally Posted by ///\oo/\\\
It will also lap faster than many RWD cars of similar power to weight ratio and be a hugely involving experience.
All despite having front wheel drive. And all just as the factory delivered them.
All despite having front wheel drive. And all just as the factory delivered them.
The fact is that a rwd car IS more involving due to the fact that the car is more "entertaining" in most cases, if power and performace was everything then all cars would be..... well not fwd thats for sure
You are trying to emphasise that fwd is the bees knees and it isnt, if you want a REAL drivers car then RWD, then just look at motorsport high performance cars (and no im not talking clio 197's or honda type R's ) and then come back
Tony