Bubba po

That's got to be rubbish! I don't know the actual figures, but from my estimation of cars on the road, I would say scoobs outsell Evos two-to-one.

Goon

Great insight into the review and the theory behind it all.

RS4 Tourer would be my first choice, although it would be nice for me to spec the first T25 Tourer when I win the lottery, or even a Type 30 Legacy Tourer?

MBK

Oh well its been fun and generated more interest than the ususal 'graphics should I or not' threads.

My final few points (with tongue firmly in cheek) and then I am not posting on this thread again, had my fun!

1. Iain, I beleive every word you say - set in the context that you are essentially a modified used car salesman...amazing how the main dealers are often protrayed as liars but the independents as paragons of virtue!!??

2. I have never seen you question evo's results in the past, I take we can assume you have the same opinion of the rave reviews of the Spec C etc - that actually the result was much closer and other cars were as fast/good etc...I very much doubt this article will appear on your website for example!

3. 'The RB5 would have been better on these roads' that must sting, all that development. Maybe it shows that Prodrive's experience in winning the WRC is more relevant to developing a great car for the UK than Tuner GP! Good attempt at the race on Sunday sell on Monday approach but I think it failed!

4. Lets have a real review, not Plato at a track or your mates at evo , give the car to Clarkson (I have already dropped him a line!) and let him give us an unbiased opinion. Careful though he knows how to pick em, his review of the new S6 was spot on, that is fast and missed the point too.

5. For those who think advertising, mag reviews and customer feedback doesn't matter and that you are not influenced by it - what do you think you are influenced by? Iain is responding to my comments because he knows word of mouth, evo, 5th gear and the media sell cars. Those with 50Kish to spend on a car are going to do their homework and listen to others views! If not you end up with a BMW Z07, like Ronan Keating - hey he is a pop star, maybe he wants a T25! That seems to be the market - all because some drummer from a band bought an original T25, some niche that!

6. For anyone feeling defensive about their car choice it's a good idea to avoid identifying with inanimate objects - a lot of mental health problems start this way . They are all just cars it doesn't really matter!

7. Yep right, we really beleive the 'there is only so fast you can go down a road', if that were true we would all be happy to buy Swift Sports, not quite the case though is it. Of course if you are telling me the test was conducted within the national speed limit this would change my view of the result!

8. My final point, and one for a future sniff petrol advert, maybe. This is all a bit like when Tommi Makinen and Colin McCrash were locked in battle. We all really knew that Makinen was the better driver and the Evo the better machine. Being British we continued to support McRae, the underdog, hoping one day he would win. So what is my point, well being British we like to support the little guy. So if you really like the new Type-25 you can buy it knowing it's second best to the cheaper evo, but being British you can then prove everyone wrong by finding the one situation where it can beat the evo (on a track) and claim victory and the moral high ground!

Like I said game over for me - enjoy your new Type-25's!

jeremy

THis Evo "issue" is really much simpler than Ian
and several others here make it.

Evo, - though as a long time reader (since before Barker arrived at
Performance Car) and one who has many problems with the ways
and means they do tests- actually have a pretty consistent set
of wants in there performance cars. I think its a bit strange though
as Evo do not seem quite so conscious of these 'wants'
themselves.

I think the single biggest issue they have is simply that they conduct
two central types of road test; one in continental europe- south of
France, Italy and Germany, and the other on the tough wet roads
of Wales. And yet they never have seemed to connect for the readers
just how different the cars react in such disparate conditions.

And indeed its very obvious just what sort of cars will do well
in each sort of road. The fat tired Germans and Italians like Carrerra GT's,
all manner of 911's, M3's, and all manner of Ferrari's will always do better on the smooth
wide open roads of continental europe. And yes this includes
fat tired Scooby's like the Litchfeild 25.

While in Wales its always going to be cars with 215 section tires or
less. These are more slidable, easier to collect on narrow roads and
more predictable. And as well such cars will have pretty good steering feel to constantly keep driver in touch with all that unruly road surface changing going on.

Truly anyone who wants to design a car that can do wales, would have to keep such factors in mind. ALthough I must say that even with said comments in mind I think not even Prodrives 'P2' would do very well in wales, just look at how much extra grip over weight that car must have- a car even lighter than a Classic yet with monster 19' wheels and at least 225/235 tires- it would drive like Mag-lev.

I believe its getting to the time when the after-market will now be just the
reverse of years past. Instead of everyone upgrading to 20 inch wheels and 235 tires people will seek 16 inch wheels and 205's- of course those new
twin- disk brakes will have to become available to keep pace!

Bucko

Drove the type 25 on saturday,amazing,well thought out car, fantastic handling pulls like a train,a true supercar,much better than the EVO.
I have tested the EVO,it just would not compete with the pace,sound,feel,and build quality of the scoob.

stilover

Boing !!

davyboy

Cool, I know this road in Germany, if I can have it over a weekend it'll give me time to get there and back.

Cheers

Dave

SivMY05Sti

I think what Ian says about Journalists is right - most of them are simply bored of the Impreza / Evo thing - Autocar for one did a terrible write up for the 2006 sti.........however they are also running a 2006 WRX PPP which they now quite like

With early Impreza's getting into the Chav brigade they automatically slag off all new Impreza / Evo models

I can't see how this is ever going to change....in the real world the T25 has to be as far as it can go for handling/power/day to day use.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

MBK, if I had £50k to spend on a car, I'd make sure I test drove all the options available to me.

Have you?

Markus

So the T25 didn't place first, ah well, it's not the end of the world to be honest.

I don't get the "need to slide" thing though. So if you can't boot the car into a corner and get the back out then it's not a good car? I can't see that you'd want to do that more than 5 percent of the time, and I'm probably being overly generous and it's more like 1 percent.

For me, I want a car that I can, should I wish, power into and out of a corner at moderate speed and have it stay stable and not start sliding. Oh it might mean I'm not a "man" as if it started to slide I could then prove how good a driver I am by pulling in back into shape. Well that's really needed on the drive to work or the mother-in-laws isn't it.

From the sound of things the T25 does a pretty good limpet impression and that appeals to me greatly. If I had the money and was in the right country then I would seriously consider a T25.

I agree that driving a car for a few days does not give a true impression of what it's really like. What might be interesting is if EVO was to take a T25 on long term test and see how it compares against other cars in the long term fleet, plus the humdrum and exotica that also passes through EVO towers.

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmm..Just read this thread all of the way through.

MBK "Tongue in cheek comments" you say, more like speech out of ones rectum I'd say

Evo over RS4? On build quality alone the Evo looks like it came came off the Blue Peter stickyback plastic stage IMHO.

Residual values? Errr RS4 wins again.

Reliability? Guess who's more likely to win this too?

Now from reading your comments they are made by somebody trying to justify with their consience/wife as to why they are buying an Evo not a genuine comparison.

I for one love Scoobs but know hand on heart a Scoob is far less likely to have the residual values of the current RS4. Is that why I would buy the car?
No.

I made my decision based on a recipe of facts, figures, test drives and a dash of my heart.

For me that boxer sound is superb and I'll happily lose a few quid over the RS4. It's horses for courses what works for me means jack to others. MBK if you are making your mind up via an article not your own homework dont be surprised if the results go **** up.

Lastly most manufacturers would be very enviable of Iain's position. To have been invited as often is testimony to the quality of the goods.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Iain,

Rest assurred, If I could afford it, I'd be breaking down your door for one of these!!! (Bugger, have I just blown my chances of a test drive?)

I used to think that 40k+ was too much for a Rice Rocket TBH, as a journalist once commented: "when these cars start to cost as much as some of the cars they seek to humble, then surely the point is lost"

HOWEVER, this was when Scoobies were at a level where they were giving M3s a bloody nose, now the comparisions for the Type 25 are with cars like the porka turbo, or Ferrari 430 i.e. genuine supercars costing two or three times as much!

Quote Jason Plato: "The Type 25 has largely been purchased by supercar owners who want something more practical to go in their garage. The ironic thing is, it's probably the fastest thing they own!"

It's an amazing achievement.

Ns04

Draggon

Read the EVO Mag yesterday and thought the comparison between the T25 & the 1X FQ360 was interesting, there is no doubt both cars should be admired for the sheer power and true aggressive looks that have been achieved, both have amazing performance.. however, my mate in Aberdeen has the FQ360 and I was out in it yesterday and JESUS is that thing quick, unbelievable acceleration with no Turbo lag, Mitsu have certainly raised the bar, different beast from the V111 FQ 400. Need to be honest here, my STI V9 with 363bhp/340lb/ft wouldn't even look at this thing. I know the T25 is a serious beast and i'm sure will match Mitsu's latest offering but, be aware when you come up against this EVO, you will be in for a major test..

To sum up, I love Scoobies and the Litchfield is certainly a monster but I can't get that feeling of being thrown into the seat of that EVO through every gear 1st-6th... congratulations to Subaru and Mitsubushi for giving us these road warriors, bring on the rest I say.

Blueblaster

Wow, there are so many issues on this thread that require my valuable opinion I don't know where to start.

First, it was great to see Mr Litchfield posting on here. I fully understand the problems he had with the car and I can certainly see why people enjoy doing business with him. I distinct lack of BS is refreshing. One point I would like to raise is that I am not sure it was entirely fair trying to set up the Impreza for optimum performance in these particular test conditions. I am sure all the other manufacturers sent basically standard cars and I appreciate that the whole point of a modified vehicle is that it is modified. However, I did get the feeling that the modifications were a little too, focused, on this occasion.

On the subject of speed, does it really matter? Will anyone be able to tell the difference between the Subaru and Mitsubishi day to day? No. What I would love to see would be a car of the year test done in real world conditions. Make the testers spend time living with them and driving them in the traffic that we all sit in day to day. The irrelevance of a lot of these cars would then become clear. I bet the little Suzuki Swift would be great fun more often than the higher powered exotica.

Finally, it is interesting how testers have become bored with these cars. They have not become bored with hot hatches or supercars. I suspect the difficulty in extracting all the performance is to blame. With truly special cars the very fact that you are driving them is exciting. Hot hatches are chuckable and fun. If you are not going 10 tenths in a Subaru or Mitsubishi then they are distinctly forgettable. The Autocar journalist might have warmed to the WRX longtermer, but I bet he wouldn't spend his own money on one. Free motoring is always a pleasure.