Martin2005

[quote=New_scooby_04]I know, sorry if that came across as a bit aggressive. I still don't agree with you though

AllyJ

Oil will be used up at some point correct. BUT there is also the matter of creating oil from coal and we have estimated right now over 1000yrs of this to burn through! We wont be using fossil fuel powered vehicles anyway by that time.

As far as the decat argument as someone said earlier using a cat actually increases CO2 emmisions while cleaning up the particulate output and also the likes of sulphur and dioxins. So its whichever is the lesser evil.

Global warming, or more accuratly Human induced Global warming (if we didnt have natural global warming the earth would be -15c on average) is still believe it or not debateable, the climate has warmed there is pretty much no doubt, but whether man is 100% to blame, partially to blame or its perfectly natural temp variation is a very disputed point even today. All I know is we do dump crap in the environment and cats certainly make the environment cleaner with less particulates and in my opinion should be used at all times.

I only do about 4k a year, and drive at evenings and weekends, I use public transport to get to and from work and my car has cat, Im certainly not enviromentally friendly, but I try and do my bit and drive on the roads a lot less than the average.

JamieMiller

I find my fuel consumption is far better, especially after the re-mapped Ecu was fitted, so what is better? I know where my answer is and it's not on the vote.

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Spot on! A cat helps combine unburnt hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides (NOx) to form CO2 and water. While this results in cleaner air for your lungs to inhale, the actual yield of CO2 (a major contributor to global warming) with a cat goes up.

However, here's a thought; transport contributes around 14% of the UK's total carbon emissions. If everyone was banned from using cars, planes, trains, buses tomorrow, the reduction in of carbon emissions would be completely cancelled out by the growth in the Chinese economy in just over 11 days. Remember that when the government next hikes the tax on petrol (as they will) in the name of saving the planet

oblong

That isn't true at all. Check any of the ice core data. co2 levels are much higher today than they have been for at least 700,000 years, probably much longer.

Good for you

oblong

The articles bull. Where to start? Lets just take the articles first argument:

It's a well known falsehood Deltoid: Pat Michaels: "fraud, pure and simple"

misty

Bollox mate. You are just another mug that has taken the bait! They tell you the data that they want you to see and believe it! Wake up to the fact we are being shafted by the ***** in charge and they have you on the hook like the rest!! Think for your self, look around you, can you see the other sheep? Well I'm the one that's on the other side of the fence God you must be so naive!!! Do you also believe in fairies as well? Do you really think that this latest fingerprint device won't become compulsory inside a year? Where were you when the fuel protests were taking place? I'll tell you where I was on the picket line at stanlow!!! **** me I bet you're at the front of the queue, pants down, bent over waiting to be shafted by the establishment and you don't know what's wrong....WAKE UP BEFORE IT'S TO LATE.
dave

See this little seen alternate view!!!

CARBON DIOXIDE -- AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

Compared with the emissions from 1 fighter plane flying over Iraq (not that I am against the war), or all them yank 4X4s I don’t think it will make much of a difference in the great scheme of thing

oblong

So you disagree with the data (you have probably not even seen) because you don't like it?
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/gra...vostok.co2.gif

Skepticism can be taken way too far.

hades

Absolutely - Cats increase CO2 greenhouse gas emissions in 2 ways - firstly they reduce efficiency, making fuel economy worse. Secondly, they convert C0 to CO2.

So where's the "Catalysts are actually detrimental to the environment as well as performance" option?

P.S. I still have 1 sports cat as I'd rather be legal; as it is much less restrictive than the 3 cats as standard on the 02WRX, it gives most of the best of both worlds

DAVE-W

Global warming is happening......and it's happened many times before.

The earth works in a cyclical process of ice ages, temp. rises, sea level rises, eventually areas become tropical etc. etc. (Milankovitch cycles).

Yes, mankind is contributing to an increased rate of this process (carbon dioxide, methane, ethane, nitrous oxide) BUT in the scheme of things it is quite minor.

A couple of good links if you fancy the read here:-

NPS: Nature & Science» Geology: Coastal Geology - Sea Level Rise

My stance on CATS.....decatted the last Impreza and have only not done so with the current one as I'm getting lazy and can't be bothered with the change over come MOT time

misty

No! I disagree with the data because it's only one side of the argument! I, unlike you have a mind of my own which I choose to exercise. I don't subscribe to theories that can be countered every step of the way. You choose to believe the ****e put out by this dictatorship, and have to pay the price. So don't whine on here when petrol, insurance, and car tax, is beyond your pocket, due to the "carbon tax" that is totally unnecessary.

P.S. I also don't believe the yanks landed on the moon! I believe the CIA shot Kennedy, And that tony blair is in fact a an alien from venus!!!

oblong

I don't believe there is any such thing as a "carbon tax". Where did you get that idea from? How the hell would anyone tax carbon anyway? It's invisible

misty

My god man do you live in the real world?

A carbon tax is a tax on energy sources which emit carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. It is an example of a pollution tax, which has been proposed by economists as preferable because it taxes a "bad" rather than a "good" (such as income). As a carbon tax addresses a negative externality, it is classed as a Pigovian tax, named after Arthur Pigou, who first proposed a solution to the problem of externalities.

dave

danfranklin1

[QUOTE=New_scooby_04]Here here. Blue sky thinking - if the sea levels are rising, howcome the little, low Maldive islands still exist? Hole in the ozone layer.... how come it was discovered at exactly the same time as they sent up a weather balloon and found out there actually was an ozone layer. Could it not have always been there? Moral - I think nothing we do could ever wreck the world - that's mankind's arrogance talking. Ergo: I've totally decatted the Scoob, enjoy waking up the neighbours and doing my bit to keep Shell afloat! Selfishness rules! But seriously, I do occasionally recycle the odd bottle, for what it's worth.

oblong

Is it? Who told you that? The government? The media? Both? Don't believe them. There is no such thing as "tax" and never will be. It's a ludicrous concept. How can "taxation" exist when we don't even use shillings anymore?

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

It was on the news the other day that a forest fire thousands of miles away is expected to pump 10 years worth of the UK's total CO2 output into the atmosphere. Not only that, but CO2 contibutes less than 10% to total 'warming' of the planet. In fact we should lay more roads to reduce solar reflection

BTW I am fully decatted and let the tap run when I clean my teeth

Sleazy Badger

I do my bit in and around the home - probably more than most people.
I have de-cat'd my car for the slight performance gain and nicer sound. I don't think about the environmental impact of it. What's the point when car exhaust gases make up such a small percentage of the greenhouse gases emitted every year. The largest polluters should be dealt with first to see the biggest reduction in these gases. That means you Mr Aviation Industry. If it means the end of cheap flights then so be it.

2p's worth.

PeteBrant

700,000 years out of 4600,000,000 is really not taking a look at the whole picture is it? That's my main problem with climate change claims. The evidence is based on a tiny fraction of the earths history.

It's like watching the first 30 seconds of a film and then basing your entire opinion of the work on it. Or judging the life acheivements of an artist on half of one painting.

RB5_245

Give it another few million years and the entire human race will have disappeared with out trace anyway.

Saving the planet is just a desperate attempt to save ourselves, which as such is selfish. Obviously the place would be far better off without us.

Therfor, by polluting ourselves to death quicker the planet will get back on track quicker. Once we're a few million years extinct the place will be quite pleasant again.

Moral of the story, pollute as much as you can and save the planet

Dave

chippy17

the whole global warming thing is alarmist in the extreme, it is scare tactics to make you panic. It is the most obvious sales tactic that car salesman use all over the world, 'buy now before it is too late!' 'Offer ends Sunday'! Until the connection between the alleged rise in temperature has been proven to be caused by humans (which it most certainly has not) I am not going to run around giving even more tax to this communist government so they can squander it on rubbish schemes, the over-inflated public sector and people too lazy to even walk down to the job centre...sorry slightly off topic!

Ben v7

Exactly, which kind of makes a mockery of the governments pressure and guilt trip style tactics. They do take us for idiots and the days of honest politics are well and truely over.

Another interesting fact, and not meaning to divert the thread but just illustrate the way this government works, in certain areas it has been suggested that the authorities are deliberately manipulating the traffic light sequencing such as to CAUSE congestion, thereby giving them the evidence they need to introduce the 'charges' and consequently raise revenue.

oblong

That's as far back as icecores go currently. For that ~700,000 years co2 levels have cycled between about 180ppm and 280ppm. But in the past 150 years levels have risen to 380ppm:
http://www.geography.wisc.edu/facult...ams/vostok.jpg

Bubba po

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...extra-bhp.html

Martin2005

Scoobynet is a great place. Only on here is global warming not happening.

Come on guys, how can you be so damned certain that it's not happening? Misty I thought you were a sensible type, so get real, how can you be so sure.

And what's all this conspiracy rubbish about how it's been trumped up by the government, it was the bloody government that ignored the warnings for years.

I dont know if it's a fact or not, all I know that the VAST majority of 'experts' say it is, call me old fashioned but thats good enough for me to at least be concerned.

Suresh

Nice idea for a poll, but flawed in that it makes the assumption that anyone who gives a fluck is a raving leftie. No so.

andythejock01wrx

Are you saying you're not a raving leftie Suresh ?

hades

You can't be, any more than you can be damned certain that it is

Personally I'd have more faith in the government's stance on global warming if their strategy to deal with it didn't appear to be solely based on "tax everyone more". I may have missed something, but I haven't seen any comment about "spend more government money on green projects", for example. It may be pure coincidence that at the same time, the national debt is currently at ridiculously high, unsustainable levels and rocketing on an annual basis.

oblong

Sure the government are abusing it, and their calls for more taxes should be resisted at every turn. Afterall taxing cars and petrol and even businesses is not going to reduce global co2 emissions. In fact tax is not a solution full stop. Some people have already pointed out that China's increased emissions will dwarf any cuts we make anyway.

But I do think it's likely that co2 levels are contributing significantly to the warming seen. Then again I think we can afford to wait a bit longer to know for sure before trying to "solve" it. If it starts getting to warm later on then we can do something then. I don't believe all the talk about "points of no return" or "tipping points".

For anyone interested here is the temperature trend for central england over the last 100 years: Hadley Centre: Central England Temperature

And here's the temperature of each month of every year since 1659:
http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...HadCET_act.txt

Currently Nov and Dec 2006 aren't filled in. They usually update the table with a month's temperature about a week after the end of that month.

Martin2005

Sorry you've lost me there, what's personal debt got to do with global warming?

And it's not government money, it's our money!