I thought fox hunting was banned!!!!
18 December 2006, 02:34 PM
#91
Originally Posted by Einstein RA
We need a new form of Government then. Communism anyone?
Mick
18 December 2006, 03:11 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by Flatcapdriver
thus satisfying the ill informed townies
18 December 2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
Can you please explain to me why you think anyone who is a 'townie' must be ill informed as to the rights and wrongs of fox hunting? Can you please explain to me what I have put in post #50 that is is so ill informed? It really does make me laugh that so many of those who support fox hunting think that they are above those who are against it.
18 December 2006, 11:31 PM
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Hmm. I posted a reply earlier. Wonder if that's what killed the database...
Anyway.
I don't think Bob is hysterical at all. I know for sure that I'm not. So perhaps you'd be good enough to engage me in debate instead?
I may not reply straight away as I'm working, but I will reply...
SB
Anyway.
I don't think Bob is hysterical at all. I know for sure that I'm not. So perhaps you'd be good enough to engage me in debate instead?
I may not reply straight away as I'm working, but I will reply...
SB
18 December 2006, 11:46 PM
#95
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Hysterical? lol I think not. Always the same, as soon as you put up the bare facts about what it is they do fox hunters then want to avoid debate. Its always the same old story, its good for the fox population, its good for the farmers and anyone who lives in a town or city doesn't understand.
I wonder what there is to not understand about brutally killing a wild animal that can't defend itself against a pack of dogs especially when it has been run to exhaustion? Even when the fox does make it underground and its escaped its dug out and still thrown to the dogs.
In fact if its about keeping the fox population down why not just go to the fox holes in the first place and dig them out and shoot them with out the need for the hunt? Oh thats right there's no fun in that is there.
I wonder what there is to not understand about brutally killing a wild animal that can't defend itself against a pack of dogs especially when it has been run to exhaustion? Even when the fox does make it underground and its escaped its dug out and still thrown to the dogs.
In fact if its about keeping the fox population down why not just go to the fox holes in the first place and dig them out and shoot them with out the need for the hunt? Oh thats right there's no fun in that is there.
19 December 2006, 11:12 AM
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The fact is, Bob, is that it's a countryside "tradition", and country people hate being dictated to by townies. Of course it's barbaric, nobody could deny that, i doubt many country dwellers would try to defend it from that point of view. It's one of those things that they want swept under the carpet, simple as.
19 December 2006, 11:33 AM
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I feckin hate those sneaky little killers!...... look heres a snap of one about to attack a mounted rider!! 
Kill them all I say, then carry on the cull and exterminate those inbreading country folk as well
Kill them all I say, then carry on the cull and exterminate those inbreading country folk as well
19 December 2006, 12:04 PM
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While I think about it, squirrels are thieving gits as well.
I think the hunts should go after them, on their own ground tree to tree!
Bushy tailed kleptomaniacs.
I think the hunts should go after them, on their own ground tree to tree!
Bushy tailed kleptomaniacs.
19 December 2006, 12:37 PM
#101
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It is true however that foxes are vicious predators who will kill just for the hell of it even when they don't need the food.
One of the reasons for hunting was to keep the numbers of foxes under control. The fact that people enjoy doing it should not be part of the argument.
I personally have no interest in doing it myself but don't see the point in an apparent ban on it purely for popularity's sake when it does not effectively ban it anyway. Yet another political move rather than an honest job!
Les
One of the reasons for hunting was to keep the numbers of foxes under control. The fact that people enjoy doing it should not be part of the argument.
I personally have no interest in doing it myself but don't see the point in an apparent ban on it purely for popularity's sake when it does not effectively ban it anyway. Yet another political move rather than an honest job!
Les
19 December 2006, 01:00 PM
#102
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Les, I see your point. Foxes are vicious predators, it's true, though the evidence that they kill just for the hell of it is slim at best. They tend to kill and store surplus food for when times get hard.
The keeping numbers under control is a fallacy. Like pretty well all other wild animals, the fox population is naturally self limiting - they don't breed if there isn't enough food and they disperse when they are old enough. We're just about the only species on the planet that has no natural limitiation on our breeding. Or, more likely, are too arrogant to pay any attention...
The main thing I'd agree with is the way the ban has been handled. I don't like things being banned in general, and this government is particularly fond of prohibition. But if something is to be banned it should be done properly, removing any grey areas and stupid great loopholes. Make it enforceable. Make it a law, not a soundbite.
But this ban was justified and overdue. Wanton cruelty against another living creature is just wrong. Surely you of all people can recognise that? I honestly don't understand how anyone can derive pleasure out of inflicting pain. The chase I can understand, but that can equally well be enjoyed on a drag hunt. Nothing needs to die at the end...
SB
The keeping numbers under control is a fallacy. Like pretty well all other wild animals, the fox population is naturally self limiting - they don't breed if there isn't enough food and they disperse when they are old enough. We're just about the only species on the planet that has no natural limitiation on our breeding. Or, more likely, are too arrogant to pay any attention...
The main thing I'd agree with is the way the ban has been handled. I don't like things being banned in general, and this government is particularly fond of prohibition. But if something is to be banned it should be done properly, removing any grey areas and stupid great loopholes. Make it enforceable. Make it a law, not a soundbite.
But this ban was justified and overdue. Wanton cruelty against another living creature is just wrong. Surely you of all people can recognise that? I honestly don't understand how anyone can derive pleasure out of inflicting pain. The chase I can understand, but that can equally well be enjoyed on a drag hunt. Nothing needs to die at the end...
SB
19 December 2006, 01:03 PM
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I cant offer any real proof; but Ive seen a whole roosting house of chickens killed by a fox, which has eaten one or two at the scene and taken one more away. The remaining twenty or so chickens appeared to have been killed out of blood-lust and little more.
Im all in favour of hunting townies btw.....
Im all in favour of hunting townies btw.....
19 December 2006, 01:04 PM
#104
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It's like clay pigeon shooting vs the feathered variety though - it's not the "same". Some humans get off on killing animals. It's the same thing in Spain, they won't give up bullfighting because at the end of the day people want to see the bull slayed. Dog fighting, **** fighting, it all goes on. Human nature, you gotta love it.
Last edited by TelBoy; 19 December 2006 at 01:43 PM.
19 December 2006, 01:42 PM
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I agree with a lot of what you say SB especially since I am an animal lover and also very much pro life. GC8 has supplied one answer for me however, and isn't it also true that urban foxes are multiplying alarmingly. I would not be happy at the thought of their painful death however and shooting them is a more reasonable manner of controlling them if it is necessary. As I understand it, that is the method sanctioned on a hunt by law.
I do not see anything wrong in fishing for the pot and any fish I catch are humanely and rapidly despatched. I do not fish "catch and release" and will stop when I have caught my permitted ration.
I think it is right to say that some people do savour watching an animal's death, including those in a hunt and I personally abhor that.
I went to a bullfight once as a young man and was disgusted by what I saw.
It could also extended to killing rats which are considered to be dangerous vermin, and mice in the house for the same reason. I am looking at both sides of the argument. If you eat fish, how do you feel about the thousands of fish which suffocate to death after being trawled up and are often cleaned or filleted while they are still alive? I shudder to think about that.
I believe it is acceptable to kill animals when circumstances demand, but not in any way to cause suffering.
Les
I do not see anything wrong in fishing for the pot and any fish I catch are humanely and rapidly despatched. I do not fish "catch and release" and will stop when I have caught my permitted ration.
I think it is right to say that some people do savour watching an animal's death, including those in a hunt and I personally abhor that.
I went to a bullfight once as a young man and was disgusted by what I saw.
It could also extended to killing rats which are considered to be dangerous vermin, and mice in the house for the same reason. I am looking at both sides of the argument. If you eat fish, how do you feel about the thousands of fish which suffocate to death after being trawled up and are often cleaned or filleted while they are still alive? I shudder to think about that.
I believe it is acceptable to kill animals when circumstances demand, but not in any way to cause suffering.
Les
19 December 2006, 01:50 PM
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ive seen on many occations a fox kill for the sake of it, including chickens, pheasants and lambs just for the pleasure. taking away little or none of what he/she has killed.
they need humans to keep the numbers down as there is nothing else above them im the food chain.
i personally dont support hunting but would stand on their side on the matter because a) i live in the country and like the way it is b) i dont see why others ahould have a vote on something they now **** all about except what crap they saw on the tv last week.
btw a very good friend of mine is a gamekeeper and he personally shoots more foxes in a month than the local hunt get in a year. the actual numbers they kill are very few if you are actually interested in the truth...
they need humans to keep the numbers down as there is nothing else above them im the food chain.
i personally dont support hunting but would stand on their side on the matter because a) i live in the country and like the way it is b) i dont see why others ahould have a vote on something they now **** all about except what crap they saw on the tv last week.
btw a very good friend of mine is a gamekeeper and he personally shoots more foxes in a month than the local hunt get in a year. the actual numbers they kill are very few if you are actually interested in the truth...
19 December 2006, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
If we all had to catch and kill our food it wouldn't be long before we all turned into veggies......
Actually i'm not sure. Killing for food IS somehow different. Wouldn't WANT to have to do it, but wouldn't live off beanshoots alone either!
19 December 2006, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rgv_stu
btw a very good friend of mine is a gamekeeper and he personally shoots more foxes in a month than the local hunt get in a year. the actual numbers they kill are very few if you are actually interested in the truth...
Don't think that's in dispute mate, it's the manner in which they're killed and the ritual surrounding it that's under scrutiny.
19 December 2006, 02:36 PM
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The keeping numbers under control is a fallacy. Like pretty well all other wild animals, the fox population is naturally self limiting - they don't breed if there isn't enough food and they disperse when they are old enough. We're just about the only species on the planet that has no natural limitiation on our breeding. Or, more likely, are too arrogant to pay any attention...
They don't breed if there isn't enough food.......but farmers are creating more food to feed the ever growing human race......are you a fox or a man?
It's a dog eat dog world....
19 December 2006, 03:19 PM
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Well the pro side can't have it both ways, one says it is an effective way of controlling the population while another says they kill very few and shooting is far more effective. The pro lobby have never been able to get their story straight since they campaigned against the ban.
Even if it is only a few this is not important, its the method which is used that is in dispute, not how many get killed in this way. No animal should be subjected to cruelty because as human beings we should be above that. Its seems the countryside alliance are still very much living in the dark ages and are lacking basic morals.
Even if it is only a few this is not important, its the method which is used that is in dispute, not how many get killed in this way. No animal should be subjected to cruelty because as human beings we should be above that. Its seems the countryside alliance are still very much living in the dark ages and are lacking basic morals.
19 December 2006, 03:33 PM
#114
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They were drag hunting...
Not at all unusual for a dog pack to 'accidentially' kill three or four foxes in the course of a drag hunt though... can't really stop the dogs if a fox pops up right in front of them !
Not at all unusual for a dog pack to 'accidentially' kill three or four foxes in the course of a drag hunt though... can't really stop the dogs if a fox pops up right in front of them !
19 December 2006, 04:43 PM
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No-one has mentioned the dogs natural instinct?
For instance, I have two gun dogs....and once they are in the open you can see thats it's in their blood....
I'm sure the hounds used have the instinct to....
For instance, I have two gun dogs....and once they are in the open you can see thats it's in their blood....
I'm sure the hounds used have the instinct to....
19 December 2006, 05:14 PM
#120
Originally Posted by rgv_stu
i
btw a very good friend of mine is a gamekeeper and he personally shoots more foxes in a month than the local hunt get in a year. the actual numbers they kill are very few if you are actually interested in the truth...
btw a very good friend of mine is a gamekeeper and he personally shoots more foxes in a month than the local hunt get in a year. the actual numbers they kill are very few if you are actually interested in the truth...