Blueblaster

I didn't buy the car with that in mind at all. I hammered my CTR for 50,000 miles and only needed two new sets of tyres and one set of brake pads. I bought the STI expecting the same kind of longevity and found I was lumbered with a car with crap, spongy brakes and an appetite for tyres. When I sold my car to the dealer he showed me the pads and they were very close to finished (on all 4 corners). 4000 miles on the motorway and another 4000 around town should not have had this effect. My experience of the STI is that, out of the box, it would be an attrocious track day vehicle. New brakes, tyres, suspension etc may well cure this, but you have to add the cost of these items to the cost of the track day.

The question at the start of this thread was "why do people not track their Imprezas"? I stand by my answer that the true cost, including all those little costs that people like to forget, is too much for the average Scooby owner.


Dynamix,

My driving technique has proved quite adequate on every other vehicle I have owned. On that basis I have to assume it is the car that is rubbish and not my driving style. And FWIW I don't profess to be any kind of driving god so am not trying to defend myself here. I say it as I see it.

For me the point of the trackday would not be to go an have an extended driving lesson in my own car. If I still had the STI I wouldn't be even the slightest bit interested in knowing where it's limits are as driving on the public road to 50% of it's limits means driving too fast. If I was on the track I would be belting the car down the straights, piling onto the brakes and zooming round the corners as fast as I could. I don't mean to say I would be driving recklessly, but I would be giving it some beans. You may claim that I should be interested in improving my technique. You may be right, but I prefer to drive on the road within my capabilites and more importantly within the capabilities of the lowest common denominator i.e. some old granny who would be terrified to see me screaming towards her Nissan Micra. Being smooth and efficient around a track won't help me in my day to day driving so if I were to go on a track it would be for fun and fun only.

Blueblaster

One more point before I go and finish off the home made mince pies.

People say the cost of a track day is only £100 for the track, £50 for petrol and £80 quid for insurance. That is £230. Reading the current thread on occupations I would guess the average salary for people on this site is about £20,000. For someone on this kind of income, £230 is a lot of money, especially if they are not single and living with mum and dad. Yes, £230 is affordable for someone with a new STI and high disposable income, but it is not for your average scooby owner. Of course, we can always follow the mantra of Scoobynet and load up our credit cards and pay off the minimum amount each month....

andythejock01wrx

Yum !

shustir

Most tracks impose strict noise limit levels also. I dont think a fully decatted and exhausted Scooby would pass this noise test. I know some have bungs but many exhausts do not.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

mine is fully decatted and passes noises tests - depends whether you buy an exhaust for the noise or for the performance - Milltek sport 3 inch system works lovely for me

davyboy

I've [stupidly] made a list of all costs since I got the car.

Saturday 19th August Servicing/Repairs (77,450 miles)
RH side wheel bearing & thermostat replaced, and geometry 'tweaked'.
£435.00

Friday 7th July Servicing/Repairs (76,558 miles)
A little later that planned:
12 month service
Belts and rollers changed
Fix an oil leak
Fresh brake fluid
Fix Sun roof gears
£889.00

Tuesday 4th April Servicing/Repairs (74,400 miles)
2 front brakes discs and a front driving lamp lens.
£210.00

Thursday 1st December 2005 Upgrades (74,250 miles)
Replaced the Leda with 968 CS M030.
Brand new rear units £400
2nd Hand fronts £100
Revalved front units £200
Installation £550 (including rear torsion bar adjustment)
Sell Leda £500
£750.00

Saturday 15th October 2005 Servicing/Repairs (72,500 miles)
New PFC97 brakes pads.
They seem to manage about 100 laps per set.
£100.00

Thursday 1st September 2005 Tyres (72,000 miles)
Another set of P Zero C tyres - bargain
£200.00

Thursday 17th March 2005 Servicing/Repairs (71,150 miles)
Brake nipple broke off, while bleeding so local garage had to be very careful to drill it out as of aluminium calliper.
£130.00

Monday 7th March 2005 Upgrades (71,100 miles)
New front and rear Performance Friction brakes pads and brake fluid.
£200.00

Friday 25th February 2005 Servicing/Repairs (71,000 miles)
Mot and geometry check.
£95.00

Thursday 24th February 2005 Servicing/Repairs (71,000 miles)
New Windscreen....lets hope this one does not leak.
£50.00

Friday 4th February 2005 Upgrades (70,600 miles)
968 CS M030 3 way adjustable anti roll bars.
£315.00

Thursday 3rd February 2005 Servicing/Repairs (70,500 miles)
12 Month Service, fortunately its still in good order and the only other thing it required was some front brake sensors.
£292.00

Saturday 30th October 2004 Tyres (70,400 miles)
2 new bridgestone S03 Tyres.
255/40/17 ZR
£290.00

Sunday 17th October 2004 Servicing/Repairs (70,300 miles)
Broke my rear brake shoe retainer springs.
4 new ones ordered...I notice they have "beefed" them up a little.
£20.00

Tuesday 13th July 2004 Servicing/Repairs (69,700 miles)
New front brake discs, pads and a front indicator lens.
£185.00

Thursday 1st July 2004 Tyres (69,000 miles)
Some "get me home tyres" bought 2nd hand from a place near the Nurburgring.
£30.00

Monday 14th June 2004 Servicing/Repairs (67,475 miles)
6 month service. A/C belt, extra oil.
£249.00

Wednesday 2nd June 2004 Tyres (63,700 miles)
A bargain set of Pirelli P zero 'C' front tyres.
£118.00

Saturday 1st May 2004 Servicing/Repairs (65,655 miles)
4 Wheel alignment and MOT.
£105.00

Wednesday 7th April 2004 Servicing/Repairs (64,800 miles)
Another attept at fixing the oil leak. This time the cam cover gasket, and it look as if it has cured it.
Fitted with an EMC Motorsport steel gasket.
£235.00

Wednesday 24th March 2004 Upgrades (64,400 miles)
Leda coilovers fitted.
225 lbs front springs and 100 lbs rear helper springs.
Cost includes fitting.
£1,000.00

Friday 20th February 2004 Servicing/Repairs (63,600 miles)
Failed attempt at fixing an oil leak. Replace front calliper plates, fit new front brake pads and brake sensors.
£459.00

Wednesday 4th February 2004 Servicing/Repairs (63,300 miles)
New Battery
£65.00

Friday 12th December 2003 Servicing/Repairs (62,200 miles)
12000 Miles Service, Coolant change and wheels balancing.
£341.00

Saturday 30th August 2003 Tyres
Needed some new tyres - but by using ebay and the 944 mailing list it didn't end up costing too much.

4 Bridgestone SO3's
£250.00

Saturday 26th July 2003 Servicing/Repairs
Another set of front Pads & Gearbox oil and brake fluid change.
Just in time for the Nurburgring....nice!
£170.00

Wednesday 9th July 2003 Servicing/Repairs
6 month Service, nothing required.
£150.00

Tuesday 8th July 2003 Upgrades
a set of AMD chips. Power now up to 290bhp.
Bargain of the century?
£50.00

Monday 28th April 2003 Servicing/Repairs
MOT and cam belt check.
In a hurry to put my wheels on after a track day, I put the directional tyres on the wrong wheels....doh!
£107.00

Monday 24th March 2003 Servicing/Repairs
Disks and pads all round. I didn't need the rears but ordered them any way.
£315.00

Friday 28th February 2003 Servicing/Repairs
12 Month Service and Cam chain replacement, and a few other little bits.
£658.00

Sunday 12th January 2003 Tyres
Pirelli P Zero 'C's for my spare 16" wheels.
£500.00

Saturday 28th December 2002 Upgrades
17" Boxster S alloys with very good tyres
£500.00

Sunday 1st December 2002 Upgrades
Momo corse steering wheel - with boss
£100.00

Friday 15th November 2002 Upgrades
Set of car mats including boot liner
£100.00

Friday 1st November 2002 Upgrades
New Sony CD player
£100.00

................................total.......cost per year
Tyres.......................£1,388.....£362
Servicing/Repairs......£5,260.....£1,372
Upgrades..................£3,115.....£813

Total Running Costs......£9,763.....£ 2,547

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

dave - you are **** mate but a great detailed breakdown of costs for a car that is driven properly on the best 12.9 miles of tarmac in the world

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

A post was made regarding the issue of being hit by cars without insurance on track days and a reply was made regarding the fact that many cars on the uk highway also don’t have insurance, these are generally driven by immigrants, and young drivers both group struggle to afford insurance and typically drive cheap and often unsafe cars

Facts are not racist, they are facts

agent003

It might be so but do you mind giving us something like a cliky as to the official source of these facts of yours?

agent003

@ this point i think the topic header should read "GIVE US YOUR POOR EXCUSE AS TO WHY NOT TO GO TO A TRACK DAY"


But no, it reads "Why don't many scooby owners track 'em? " ...hence why are some people contradicting on some of the answers given.... next thing you know there will be people saying you are gay if you dont go to one

Blueblaster

Davyboy, I just can't compete with that kind of detail. Nice one. I think you have proved one point though. Track days are neither cheap nor ridiculously expensive although I suppose you have to add the cost of the car to those costs too.

BTW I think your Porker looks the business - given the age of the design it still looks really fresh.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I take mine on track and I am not gay - both are true statements


I am fortunate to be able to stick my RA in the garage and use a diesel for my daily stuff but prior to this I had a MY99 Wagon which was my full-time car and track toy.

I made some mods to it such as brakes/suspension and I was able to turn up at a track day maybe a bit late, pay for a half day, adjust the suspension and have a drive, put suspension back to normal and drive home. Cost? Maybe £50 and some petrol - tyre wear minimal and likewise brakes minimal.

My last trip out to Oulton Park in the RA cost me £99 for the day (Open Pit Lane), £50 in fuel on the day & £90 trailer hire. My wheels are old MY99 5 spokes I collected for free, my tyres were £20 each part-worns from a tyre shop in east London, which after the day had minimal wear and other than the diesel for dragging the trailer over and back from Suffolk, that was it. Pads were only worn a little bit (DS3000s) and should be good for at least 2 more track days by the looks. Tyres will last several more.

Other than the trailer, which I chose because I was feeling lazy and wanted to have the maximum fun for the least effort and besides which the additional cost of fuel at RA mpg covers it LOL, then if you are careful, you can enjoy selected track days at not a lot of cost.

Insurance? Well the car was only £3.5k and if it gets dented, it can be rebuilt. I'm reasonably level-headed and avoid risk when on track & its a risk I'm prepared to take.

martx

This is post 101 on this thread & the only thing I have surmised it that some /lots/ a few ? Scooby owners can't afford £200ish for a one off trackday? .Fair enough, I fully respect that. I really do.

But for the rest of you who can, 'I', repeat, 'I' think its ridiculous to spunk loads of wedge loading ya car up with track paraphernalia, not use ya car on a track & then curse, tut & chastise people who say they sometimes speed on public roads. To me the only reason that person would own the car would be.....I dont know???? I'm sure demon tweeks etc. dont mind lol

Blueblaster

Good grief! After 4 million posts we actually agree on something . If you are going to spend a fortune upgrading your car then you should take it on the track. Waste of money otherwise.

martx

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

One Million Illegal Drivers in UK
No justice when illegal drivers kill on roads
If you're a motorist with road tax, insurance, MoT and a valid licence then can you think of a good reason why one million other motorists are allowed to get away without any of these legal requirements?

These law breakers are not a small minority. The Department for Transport estimate that at least 1 million people are driving illegally while random police checks suggest the figure could be as high as 5 million. In 2002 there were 315,000 convictions for driving without insurance, up 18% on the previous year. However, the average fine was just £150, a snip considering the average insurance premium is £350 and far more for the young men who are the majority of offenders. Nineteen year old Lee Colligan, fined £75 in September 2004, said "There's a choice between the off-chance of a £75 fine or paying more than £1000 to insure a car for a year. That's not much of a choice for someone who is unemployed living in Liverpool." Or anywhere else in the country for that matter.

More Facts
Uninsured drivers are 10 times more likely to drink and drive and be involved in an accident. They are 6 times more likely to be driving an unroadworthy vehicle and 3 times more likely to be convicted of driving without due care and attention. By failing to register a car with the DVLA or giving false information allows drivers to appear as ghosts to speed cameras or any incident where a number plate is the only means of identifying the driver.

If the police focus less on speed cameras and more on tackling illegal drivers then the roads will become much safer. On top of that insurance premiums would fall because crashes involving uninsured drives costs £500m a year and adds £30 to £60 to each insurance policy.

One of the most dangerous groups of illegal motorists are unaccountable immigrants who haven't taken a British driving test or learnt the Highway Code. Several fatal incidents have highlighted the growing problems.

Callum Oakford
Nine year old Callum was killed by a speeding illegal immigrant who fled the scene after the accident. The police did a good job of tracking down Kamel Kadri, an Algerian who had no licence, no MoT and no insurance. Kadri abandoned the car and disposed of the keys. He came to Britain using a stolen passport and his asylum claim was rejected but he remained in the country. Alarmingly he was charged with only minor motoring offenses and sentenced to just 8 months for failing to stop after an accident. Kadri was given a further 16 months for having a false passport and banned for driving for two years. It's incredible how this man who has no conscience and no legal right to be in the country escaped punishment for killing this young boy.

Update: 24 hours later the sentence of 8 months was reduced because the judge had exceeded his powers. The maximum sentence he could impose under the current law for failing to stop is 6 months. Callum's family is understandably outraged by this injustice.

Deborah Peaty
Three asylum seekers were charged with causing the death of 26 year old teacher, Deborah Peaty. She was seven months pregnant but sadly her daughter did not survive either. Speaking through an interpreter, Ratnam Yogan and two others entered a plea of not guilty. They were remanded on bail while the case was adjourned.

Update (17-Feb-04): Yogan has fled from Britain while on bail. A serious blunder by the authorities meant that he was not forced to hand over his travel documents allowing easy passage from the UK to escape the trial and whatever punishment he was going to receive. To make matters worse a second asylum seeker involved with the tragic accident has also skipped bail. The police wisely opposed bail but naive buffoons in the judiciary thought it was perfectly safe to allow the killers several weeks of freedom in the hope they would willingly return to court to face trial. Police across Europe have been asked to keep an eye out for the wanted men.

Amy Houston (see full story)
A failed asylum seeker has been jailed for just four months for killing 12 year old Amy Houston after a hit and run incident. Aso Mohammed Ibiiahim, a Kurdish Iraqi, got behind the wheel despite being disqualified and having no insurance. Amy's father said "He's laughing at the justice system and he is laughing at every decent person in this country. He will be back on the streets in two months while we face a life sentence." The magistrates, who could only impose a maximum six-month jail term, gave Ibiiahim credit for an early guilty plea.

Chris & Anne Mallet
Chris Mallet and his newlywed wife Anne were killed when an illegal immigrant drove his speeding BMW into their car at Holbeach, Lincolnshire. Polish farm worker Wlodzimierl Bogowsld, who also died, was almost five times over the drink-drive limit and had no insurance or MoT for his vehicle. He was driving on the wrong side of the road without lights.

Nigel Hodgson
Raj Gohil drove through traffic calming obsticles between 50 and 70mph before crashing into a 38 year old father. Gohil drove off but gave himself up the following day. He was charged with death by dangerous driving and sentenced to 5 years in a young offenders' institution and banned from driving for 8 years - even though he has never taken a driving test. No doubt the young offenders's institution will reward him with regular access to TV, sports facilities and probably some excursions too.

Paul Fritchley
A father of two was killed by Nana Kemajou, a 30 year old asylum seeker from Cameroon. Kemajou was speeding at 90mph when he hit the back of Paul Firtchley's car. Kemajou was given a sentence of only two and a half years. Judge Jamie Tabor claimed the sentencing guidelines for dangerous driving where the aggravating factor is speeding has a maximum of just 3 years. Kemajou had been living in Gloucester under the name of a French national and used a bogus National Insurance number to get a job at a dairy. He had no license and no insurance and blamed the accident on Mr Fritchley despite witnesses saying otherwise.
Would a genuine asylum seeker fleeing a country in fear of his life choose to break several UK laws, commit fraud and kill someone and claim it was the victim's fault? It's about time we closed our doors to all but the most obviously genuine and deserving cases of asylum. The British have rights too and all of the victims on this page had the right to live, but that was taken away from them.

Fatalities by British Drivers Who Should Know The Law

Jade Forster
14 year old Jade was killed as a passenger in Gareth Frost's unroadworthy car he had bought for just £50. Frost, 17, had taken 2 ecstasy tablets, smoked cannabis and drunk a small amount of alcohol. Fuelled by this concoction of drugs he crashed his Metro into a lamp post at 70mph, skidded for 50 yards and flipped it onto its roof. He was sentenced to just 2 1/2 years for death by dangerous driving. The maximum sentence that Judge Robert Moore could have imposed is 10 years.

Laura Swadkins
15 year old Laura was walking home from school when drugged up Philip Russell, 24, ran her over after losing control of his battered £120 Ford Fiesta. Russell overtook 3 vehicles at speed in a residential street. He had only ever taken 4 driving lessons and never intended to take a test or get insurance. Six weeks earlier he had been released on bail despite jumping bail for his previous offense of car theft. Russell has a string of motoring related offenses. He was sentenced to 6 years in prison for causing Laura's death plus a further year for other offenses. The judge also issued a 7 year driving ban but it's unclear if the ban starts immediately or after he's released. Either way, a ban is immaterial to a man who's prepared to drive without a license and on drugs.

Anthony Wilkinson
A 35 year old school teacher was killed when Mark Webster drove his van into him after a 6 hour drinking session. Webster failed to stop despite pleas from his two passengers. Thinking the victim was a refugee Webster told his passengers "It doesn't matter, it was only a Kosovan." After 16 hours he was arrested by not charged for drink-driving because no alcohol was left in his system. However, he admitted to careless driving, no insurance, failing to stop and driving while disqualified. With 21 previous driving convictions behind him the judge handed out a tiny 6 month prison sentence. Is that how much a life is worth?

Marc Downing
A hit-and-run driver was fined just £83 for killing Marc, but minutes earlier the same magistrates fined another motorist £443 for crashing into a tree. Although the magistrates thought the health of a tree is far more valuable than an innocent person's life, they didn't see Marc's killler, 25 year old Hayley Matthews, as a threat to the public. The previously convicted drug user was driving an uninsured Ford Escort with defective headlights when she hit Marc and left him to die in the road. His mother described the penalty as an insult to her son.

agent003

Hi,

Just give us the link where this was taken from


Never mind.... here it is Speed Cameras - one million illegal drivers in UK

Its not official though

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Back on topic.

Here are a couple of links.

Me in my Sti V at Bedford, running around 300bhp, driving two up with the the single biggest performance mod being AP 6 pot brakes. My time is 2:52 on a hot, dry track in the summer, which was two seconds slower than Tiff Needell in a 996 Turbo in similar conditions!!

Bedford
Bedford II


Me in my Spec C at Cadwell - nowhere near on the pace as it was my first day there AND I am crap at tracks with hills, e.g. Cadwell and Donington!!

Cadwell


I would say that some of the wear and tear aspects are overstated. I did loads of track days in my Sti V. Indeed on the basis of each track day being the equivalent of 10k miles it must have done 250k miles by the time I sold the engine!!! And it was still really strong with absolutely minimal oil usage!

Tyres will last very well, even on airfields, if you learn to drive properly with someone like Rob Mac or Don Palmer. It will save you a lot in tyre costs and you will be faster.

Petrol is the biggest cost.

Finally I do not believe that track insurance includes third party vehicles - it is each to their own.

Get out there and do it - fantastic!!

andythejock01wrx

Rannoch,

Good vids ! You obviously know what you're doing on the track. The Spec C looks pretty quick (not always apparent on "You Tube" ! ).

I have 4 new Toyo T1Rs on my modded 01 WRX. Do you reckon it would be worth my while swapping over the 2 budget "Linglongs" I have in my garage for a single track day ? And would it make much difference to the grip and handling on a dry track ?

BedHog

In answer to the original question, because it's a family car I need to use everyday (when it's cold or wet...) and can't do without it if I trashed it on the track. OK I probably wouldn't, but it happens......

Maybe in 2 or 3 years when it's worth virtually nothing (02 Import Bugeye) I will probably get something else and a trailer and use it just on the track.

martx

I'd put the cheaper tyres on since your a novice. Initially it'll be your driving thats under scrutiny rather than tyres or componants...

dreamer_girl

Sort of agree there (I don't have a family) - if I crash it I can't get to work and it's too expensive to repair quickly !

Hence having this for the track which was cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, cheaper to repair, and cheaper to insure for the track :
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...SV200988-1.jpg

I agree iwth other posters though - those people who spend a load of money modifying their cars to go quicker then don't drive them on a track should give it a go - get a chance to drive properly and legally!

ARM-Scooby

yes i wondered why that was all there!! lol!!


Only changed the zorst on mine, going to change the pads soon and get on a track day this year, buying a house and marriage put pay to days out over the past 2 years, but now i shall be using the car properly!! Plus i have joined Nuneaton car club which is run by the BRC team so looking forward to some events with them this year!


It is a damn good question though, why heavily mod a car only to drive it on normal roads? It is generally agreed on here that 300bhp is pretty much all you can use in real day driving, so why uprate the suspension, wheels, drive chain etc to never use it? When those cars are sold someone will be getting a great track car, lol!

davyboy

There is pressure for you to upgrade your car.

If you buy a Pre My01 then apprantly you "need" a whiteline ARB and lift kit.....and everyone who has one says how good they are, although I'd question if some have noticed any different but feel they have to respond positively. Emperors new clothes anyone?

It's also great car park and pub talk to say how powerful your car is, and how you have improved it. It's not quite so much fun for your mates to reply, "how come the pug 205 overtook you on the track then?"

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

emperors new clothes - perfect

Dream Weaver

You assume those people that don't go on track can't afford it, but there could be many other reasons.

They may be tight like me, and prefer to spend the money on house/family , they may not be that bothered about trackdays, also slightly like me - the last one I did was full of nutters nearly taking everyone off the track. :O

Not everything in life is black and white, and to anser the original question, Scoobs/Evo's etc just aren't that good on track using a performance/cost analysis.

"MADDOG"

iTrader: (3)

nice one Davyboy

regards "MADDOG"

ARM-Scooby

no he is summing up responses! His orignal question was why mod/ upgrade if your never going to fully use it to its potential, in a legal environment.



Its all black and white if you read the whole post!

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

hmmmm

frayz

iTrader: (7)

PMSL.. This is one of the best posts ive read on SN for ages..