Iraqi Torturers Not Afforded Dignity in Death?
16 January 2007, 08:00 PM
#32
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Why are people getting the hissy fits over this???
prhaps we need to start
Iraq 101
Saddam & his mates were tried and convicted by an Iraqi court.. It was the elected government.....
he was found guilty....
THEY have the death penalty, all we did was detain them...
THEY executed Them
end of....
what they do is up to them...
the more you go on about it the more it keeps getting media coverage,..
there gone now so whats the use keeping on about it
mart
prhaps we need to start
Iraq 101
Saddam & his mates were tried and convicted by an Iraqi court.. It was the elected government.....
he was found guilty....
THEY have the death penalty, all we did was detain them...
THEY executed Them
end of....
what they do is up to them...
the more you go on about it the more it keeps getting media coverage,..
there gone now so whats the use keeping on about it
mart
16 January 2007, 11:39 PM
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16 January 2007, 11:45 PM
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Not so sure about the slow agonising death bit
When the french used the guillotine a Dr researched how long the victim stayed 'aware' after decapitation and asked the condemned if they would blink as many times as they could after decapitation... I read that one person blinked 14 times afterwards.
So, given that: it would seem reasonable to assume that when his head got ripped off he would've been aware of flying through the air without a body attached and hitting the ground... then being able to hear people shouting out as he slowly faded out...
Gruesome picture hey?
This lends some credence: The Straight Dope: Does the head remain briefly conscious after decapitation?
When the french used the guillotine a Dr researched how long the victim stayed 'aware' after decapitation and asked the condemned if they would blink as many times as they could after decapitation... I read that one person blinked 14 times afterwards.
So, given that: it would seem reasonable to assume that when his head got ripped off he would've been aware of flying through the air without a body attached and hitting the ground... then being able to hear people shouting out as he slowly faded out...
Gruesome picture hey?
This lends some credence: The Straight Dope: Does the head remain briefly conscious after decapitation?
Dying in 15-20 seconds hardly counts as "a slow and agonising death".
Although I do rather like the idea of murderers trying to talk and no words coming out as their mouths open and shut.
17 January 2007, 06:13 AM
#41
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Why are people getting the hissy fits over this???
prhaps we need to start
Iraq 101
Saddam & his mates were tried and convicted by an Iraqi court.. It was the elected government.....
he was found guilty....
THEY have the death penalty, all we did was detain them...
THEY executed Them
end of....
what they do is up to them...
the more you go on about it the more it keeps getting media coverage,..
there gone now so whats the use keeping on about it
mart
prhaps we need to start
Iraq 101
Saddam & his mates were tried and convicted by an Iraqi court.. It was the elected government.....
he was found guilty....
THEY have the death penalty, all we did was detain them...
THEY executed Them
end of....
what they do is up to them...
the more you go on about it the more it keeps getting media coverage,..
there gone now so whats the use keeping on about it
mart
17 January 2007, 12:14 PM
#42
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I think you will find that Jesus did not require contrition to turn the other cheek and forgive. "Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do".
Somewhat at odds with "monsters" who should be shown "no mercy".
I only say this as I find it at odds with your beliefs as expressed elsewhere.
Rannoch
Somewhat at odds with "monsters" who should be shown "no mercy".
I only say this as I find it at odds with your beliefs as expressed elsewhere.
Rannoch
In the interests of persuading such"monsters" that if they feel that they have to torture and kill people, committing genocide also as they go, that they are risking genuine and final retribution, then I am fully in favour of "topping" them in such a case.
In my book that does not go against Christian principles.
Look at the present PC attitude towards criminals and thugs and their human rights. They literally do virtually get away with murder these days serving minimum sentences as they do. Do you personally think it is a good thing to appease criminals in this way, and what do you think of the results that we see every day now?
The punishment should fit the crime as it was always said in the past, even when it comes to the ultimate retribution when it is appropriate as it certainly was this time. SH and his murderous cohorts were despatched in the most humane manner which was a lot better than they did for their victims!
If you can find any more biblical quotes in order to attempt to embarrass me, please go ahead, it will at least help to fill your day!
Les
17 January 2007, 12:23 PM
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Les, The Christian principle is not to kill people. And you cannot get away from that even in the awful circumstances of the monsters that were executed. As I said in an earlier post I don't support the death penalty but in this case I can't bring myself to oppose the sentence. That doesn't make it right though.
17 January 2007, 12:48 PM
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Les, The Christian principle is not to kill people. And you cannot get away from that even in the awful circumstances of the monsters that were executed. As I said in an earlier post I don't support the death penalty but in this case I can't bring myself to oppose the sentence. That doesn't make it right though.
Les
17 January 2007, 12:53 PM
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Yes I agree about not killing people of course, but I also believe in the State's right to punish those who do commit such dreadful crimes if only to dissuade others from a similar course of action and to defend the innocent from being killed. I think that is also a Christian principle.
Les
Les
About time we left them to governing thier own country, by their laws, stopped being as arrogant to assume that we are right and they are wrong, leave them to it and assist if asked to.
Christian values mean very little in Iraq or indeed the ME.
17 January 2007, 01:20 PM
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Not so sure about the slow agonising death bit
When the french used the guillotine a Dr researched how long the victim stayed 'aware' after decapitation and asked the condemned if they would blink as many times as they could after decapitation... I read that one person blinked 14 times afterwards.
When the french used the guillotine a Dr researched how long the victim stayed 'aware' after decapitation and asked the condemned if they would blink as many times as they could after decapitation... I read that one person blinked 14 times afterwards.
Ns04
17 January 2007, 02:25 PM
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Yes I agree about not killing people of course, but I also believe in the State's right to punish those who do commit such dreadful crimes if only to dissuade others from a similar course of action and to defend the innocent from being killed. I think that is also a Christian principle.
Les
Les
In terms of some quotes for you - I can't remember the number but something nags me about the Bible...oh, yes, Thou shalt not kill. I don't remember reading the amendments saying though shalt not kill except for xxx. God alone has sovereignty over life.
Having been brought up in a deeply theological and Christian family, even though I do not regard myself as religious I do find support for the death penalty to be against Christian principles.
Do unto others as you would do unto yourself.
A whiff of hypocrisy is in the air.
Last edited by Trout; 17 January 2007 at 02:30 PM.
17 January 2007, 02:37 PM
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Except for the Christian (as in the prophecies of Jesus Christ) elements recognised in the Quoran as Jesus is a regarded as a great teacher and prophet and the values he taught are inherent in the teachings if the Quoran.
The Quoran declares that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Spirit of Him. So the Word of God and His spirit exist with and in God from eternity and neither His Word nor His Spirit have a beginning or an end.
In the Quoran it also says, ' Kill and man and you kill all of mankind, save a man and you save the world'.
Something very much in line with Christian teaching and sadly not followed by extremists of all religions.
The Quoran declares that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Spirit of Him. So the Word of God and His spirit exist with and in God from eternity and neither His Word nor His Spirit have a beginning or an end.
In the Quoran it also says, ' Kill and man and you kill all of mankind, save a man and you save the world'.
Something very much in line with Christian teaching and sadly not followed by extremists of all religions.
17 January 2007, 03:10 PM
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Except for the Christian (as in the prophecies of Jesus Christ) elements recognised in the Quoran as Jesus is a regarded as a great teacher and prophet and the values he taught are inherent in the teachings if the Quoran.
The Quoran declares that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Spirit of Him. So the Word of God and His spirit exist with and in God from eternity and neither His Word nor His Spirit have a beginning or an end.
In the Quoran it also says, ' Kill and man and you kill all of mankind, save a man and you save the world'.
Something very much in line with Christian teaching and sadly not followed by extremists of all religions.
The Quoran declares that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Spirit of Him. So the Word of God and His spirit exist with and in God from eternity and neither His Word nor His Spirit have a beginning or an end.
In the Quoran it also says, ' Kill and man and you kill all of mankind, save a man and you save the world'.
Something very much in line with Christian teaching and sadly not followed by extremists of all religions.
You can quote whatever you like, this is not my point, the ME and the Muslims people who live there have theirr own ways of doing things and their own laws as well as their religious beliefs and interetations. I am a little bored of people moaning about this is not how they should do things or this is not right, like 'we' in the west are such good example.
Oh, you point out the parallels between the two religions, go stand up in the street in Saudi, etc and start preaching from the bible about how great Christianity is and how people should convert or respect it - i give you a max of 5 mins before you are carted away or stoned!
Or, pop into the local Christian church - oh, that's right, there aren't any
Bin there, lived there mate, respect their laws and you are just fine, break them or upset them and you are in trouble!
Have a look at this, this is a prime example of differences, interview with an executioner, discussing his job with his young kids sat around him, proud man and taking pride in his job.
YouTube - Saudi Government-Appointed Executioner
Last edited by The Zohan; 17 January 2007 at 03:21 PM.
17 January 2007, 03:34 PM
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Just for information as we were talking about Iraq there are lots of Christians, indeed around 700,000 of them recognised by government statistics and there are churches as well. Shock, horror in a Muslim country!
17 January 2007, 03:47 PM
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my point still stands, the ME is just different, different way of doing things, different values.
17 January 2007, 04:12 PM
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As for predating Islam, this is agian not the point, Islam is the predominant religion in its many forms.
Last edited by The Zohan; 17 January 2007 at 04:16 PM.
18 January 2007, 01:03 AM
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What PSL said is absolutely right. These monsters deserved no mercy as far as the death penalty is concerned, there is no doubt whatsoever about their guilt either. What compassion did they show to their thousands of victims who were dreadfully tortured before their deaths. What mercy does a person deserve when he causes an entire village to be murdered with nerve gas? How about those who were killed slowly and painfully by being fed feet first into a giant shredding machine. Don't forget the prisoners who were used to taste SH's food for poison and were then shot in the head afterwards?
I reckon they were fortunate to have a swift execution which was richly deserved and who can blame those who shouted insults after what they did to their loved ones!
Les
I reckon they were fortunate to have a swift execution which was richly deserved and who can blame those who shouted insults after what they did to their loved ones!
Les
PS You do know where they got their nerve gas from don't you?
18 January 2007, 07:34 AM
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18 January 2007, 11:53 AM
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I agree with David - I don't support the death sentence however circumstances such as this do stretch that belief. I certainly do not think that the death sentence would in any way discourage a dictator. If anything it encourages them as if they get caught they can be the great martyr.
In terms of some quotes for you - I can't remember the number but something nags me about the Bible...oh, yes, Thou shalt not kill. I don't remember reading the amendments saying though shalt not kill except for xxx. God alone has sovereignty over life.
Having been brought up in a deeply theological and Christian family, even though I do not regard myself as religious I do find support for the death penalty to be against Christian principles.
Do unto others as you would do unto yourself.
A whiff of hypocrisy is in the air.
In terms of some quotes for you - I can't remember the number but something nags me about the Bible...oh, yes, Thou shalt not kill. I don't remember reading the amendments saying though shalt not kill except for xxx. God alone has sovereignty over life.
Having been brought up in a deeply theological and Christian family, even though I do not regard myself as religious I do find support for the death penalty to be against Christian principles.
Do unto others as you would do unto yourself.
A whiff of hypocrisy is in the air.
That is an offensive thing to say about me and I would not have believed it of you.
Les
