davyboy

How about you take of your rose tinted specs and realise that there are cars better than a Subaru Impreza, however much money you throw at them. Not doubting the Impreza is not a good car...it's a fine car.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

It is lame that people think that by paying more you get more, but then again it just shows that you do get brainwashed by the overated brands.

A GT for over half a million? It is a joke ffs, and so is any other RS or GT3 or whatever!

Those prices could have only started off as a joke but stuck since there are retarded people with a LOT of money!

davyboy

OK so the guy in front was in a Porsche, what was the yuppie driving? I'd put money on Jap clutter

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Scoobynet seems to be populated by people who hate this car.......yet no-one defends Subaru very much!

davyboy

As I said ealier, there is a lot more to a car that just how fast it goes.

I've not said I hate Subarus, I like to think my view is balanced.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough, but paying massive amounts of money for something that is expendable is ridiculous!

Subaru is an example of performance, reliability, and some (not much, but getting better) quality!

Why pay € 500,000 or more for a car, in the case of the GT?

II HUFF II

Cool vid

I would much rather have a SUPER Scooby than a SUPER car. Not much into Porsche

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Flatcapdriver

Because if you can afford it, who cares? Why pay £40k for a Type 25 when you could pay £10k for a Fiat Panda?

911

Does any of this really matter?

To have the choice is great, buy a 911 or a Panda or a Scooby, your money, your circumstances, so why not.

Is one better than the (any) other is a limited argument, and hardly life threatening!

Some would look at the Scooby and scream what a waste of money, and the Smart Car is much better, similarly the 911 over the Scooby line.

I've an old Impreza and an even much older 911 (see opposite) and several would condemn me for those cars (non green etc).

Time to get on with life?

Graham

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Agree!

Unfortunately some other folks went on about how crappy Scoobs were, and being Scoobynet, I could not allow it!

If some muppets like the 911s so much they can **** off to their site ffs, they started all those stupid remarks!

Otherwise all is fine, hope they enjoy the other side!

Shark Man

A Subaru is a very good car if you look at in the context of a 4/5door family car costing much less than £20K. Now if you upgarded from a mundane Escort or a Vectra etc. Then yes, an Impreza is better, but don't get carried away now.

It fits the above niche perfectly, and there is little much else in that bracket that ticks all the boxes of 4/5doors, cheap (to buy), 4wd, fast, reasonable handling etc.

BUT because it fills all those boxes, its compromised in almost every area. Its design starting point was a basic saloon car, which was modified to suit performance needs.

So it becomes rather silly to even try and compare it to cars designed from the outset as a performance/drivers car, by basing on statistics such as 0-60 times and "whooping them in the twisties" etc rather than driving pleasure, purity and involvement. Which face it, the Impeza like many Japanease cars over the years is severely lacking, fast, but very lacking indeed.

Paying the extra god knows how much to have a car that actually drives properly is unfortunately what it takes, otherwise you compromise. And that is what a Impreza is.

I'm not sure why, but for a Japanease car manufacturer, their criteria to producing a car is to remove as much sensation and involvment as they can out of a car. Maybe that progress, but to me its progressing to a stage where you may as well be driving an aracde simulator. And teh nail in coffin is EU manufacturers have followed suit

Oh how I'd love to dump a Elan Sprint FHC on the doorstep of ever MD od every car manufacturer with a note saying, real drivers cars drive like this. Now go and make one, please.

If your still redaing this and haven't dactually fathomed what I am on about, well let me say this. A good driver's car doesn't have overpowered vacuum assisted brakes, it won't be 4wd, it will never have power steering, and it won't have a turbo messing up the throttle response either. And dare I say it, it probably won't run on fashionable 19" rims and 35 profile tyres either.

How much does an Atom cost? Now add bodywork and you get the idea; Being a yuppie, I don't want to get my suit wet, I have to make at least one compromise

jeremy

Davyboy,

Heres my a post where I try to adress your thoughts regarding the
handling differences/benefits of Porches vs Scoobys....

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ml#post6639744

The bottom line is that I inclined to believe you that on some roads
your 996 Turbo is safer than you Impreza. However I believe that overall
there are many different roads and uses and many iterations of Impreza that are quite a bit better sorted than your WRX, that
will as well be better on some roads. The main issue is that no one has ever
formally tested such cars in so many roads over a decent amount of time.

The only people I could think of able to conduct such a test would be a group of pretty decent scoobyneters and their personal cars, or someone like Damian Harty https://www.scoobynet.com/damian-har...roduction.html
or Mike Wood from prodrive.

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

Think i know what your trying to get at but the way i interperet what you have said means you would have to have a garage full of cars and choose whichever one was best for the journey/ road you were going on that day!

I can only truthfully comment on past experiences, eg owned an my99 ppp, sti03, now a 2.5 wrx and a 996tt and theres huge differences as you would rightly expect for the price difference. If i could only have one car and didn't need 4 seats i would only have the 996 tt. But thats only my opinion for my given situation

jeremy

Sandy,

I wouldn't exactly use a base level impreza 03 sti as the
Impreza benchmark against a 450hp Porsche. Indeed there are many
Impreza's much more capable then an 03 sti. Even with this said evo
mag- rich and John are pretty darn good drivers though certainly not
pro-level) over the years have compared all manner of Imprezas
with cars (though Ironically NOT with a 996 t) such
as the Ferrari 550, BMW M3 csl and Skyline GT-r and have always
came away saying there was nothing in it a to b. Maybe
they were on different roads?

I certainly do think a properly set up and high horsepower Impreza would make a very interesting comparison with your 996 t. I'd say there would be very little in it through corners but all the other variables like braking, anti-slip controls, road space vs amount of slip angles would be interesting to see. Never seen anyone ever attempt it or talk about it; seems most people are more into how fast, how much grip, etc.

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

jeremy, i quite believe that a tuned impreza of some form would keepup/be quicker/handle "better" than a 996 tt but would it be "liveable" with for everday life? Not just comfort, traffic driving, but also servicing intervals between rebuilds etc. How highly stressed or tuned would the subaru engine need to be to keep up? Not asking these questions of you or picking at your threads just putting them into the debate.
Also when your allowed a tuned subaru why not a 996 tt with a £1500 ecu upgrade - reliable 500+bhp! Don't know where you would start or stop this chain of events.
I purchased a 996tt as out of the box it was the best car for me, excitement, looks, build, reliability, value (never bought new!) and reasonable servicing costs for what it does imho. It also comes with a warranty that can be renewed upto 10 years old, don't think anyone would put a warranty on a highly tuned impreza of a few years old but might be wrong. It also has to be said i paid handsomely for this with the purchase price of the car
My last point is i'm by no means a pro driver either so if one says a 700bhp tuned zigamazoid is better than my porsche because you can drift it at 150mph etc etc it still doesn't mean the car would be better for me. Therefore i can't see what benefit i would get from a review other than bragging rights, background info, an intresting one off read as it wouldn't change what the car is to me. cheers sc.

jeremy

Sandy,

I was talking about handling. I can't dispute the Porsche's
build, reliability, brakes etc.

If you were still interested in the handling aspects of these cars
please take a look at a post I put up talking about how hard it is to really
figure the handling puzzle out:

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...auto-mags.html

davyboy

You've bored me into submission!

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

me too game over

911

You have all done well to last this long!
Graham

satanbaby

i did.

~DrEaM~

had a play with a 4S with my old Twin-scroll..

i was pulling away in everygear.. but its still in my mirror a 4x cheaper car is good enough for me - the looks of his face is the best part

silent running

As an extension to this thread, on the way back from the 'Ring last night I had a good long 'convoy' session with a 911 C4S, in my MY98 WRX wagon. Don't know how old it was because it was on a private plate. Great fun though and it was a very flexible overtaker; a lovely motor along the back roads.

Now he was a tiny smidgeon quicker off the line and through the gears but not enough to put any distance between us and I was running at 0.8 bar low boost setting awaiting a 1.4 bar remap because of my new TD05. On top of which the back end was full up: a big chest of drawers that I'd just picked up on the way home as well as a monster tool chest, huge weekend bag and assorted loose tools etc.

So there you have it. Both of us no doubt had fun giving our motors a workout; it looks like I could have outrun him if I'd chosen to knock it up to 1.4 bar, and I was also hauling a big load in the back - i.e. my car did its job. He on the other hand had the enjoyment of an empty car designed to simply drive fast in luxury and nothing else. His car did its job.

It's hard to compare the two really, they are designed for different things, although with a combination of Whiteline and Eibach suspension tweaks an old Subaru wagon with 120k on the clock can easily keep pace with a C4S which is nice to know, considering I could never afford one LOL

I'd still have the 911 if I had the money though. Having just spent the weekend in a 205 GTi round the 'Ring, which is basically just a driving machine and little else, you do appreciate the 'do anything' ability of the wagon.

AllyJ

I do like porsches but arguing over which is better??? hmmm well neither is better as they each have their own niches in my book. Firstly I dont see any porsches doing the wrc do you? secondly i dont see any Scoobs doing saloon car track racing or touring events either they have completly different heritages.

If one wants to brag about snob value and I can afford a porsche because I have more money than you then thats one point, if its driving pinnache and quality do me a favour please...we dont have the roads to experience driving pinnache to the extent of the machines in question, as we all know you need to take these cars off the public roads or autobahns to truly 'experience' them.

I take the more practical reponse why spend 100k+ on a car when you can get similar experiences by spending a hell of a lot less, this holds true for the majority of car owners, it seems to me from porsche drivers I have met, they dont so much buy one cos its a 'better driving car' they buy it as a wallet extension pure and simple to give some them superiority complex (apologies to any porsche owners who have bought one apprently cos it drives better, but I have yet to meet one). And for any porsche owner who says to me if you had 100k+ you'd buy one...er no I'd buy a boat with that money thanks I can then hack around without sitting in traffic jams or getting snapped by speed cameras thanks and then laugh at people wasting ludicrous cash on a car.

Shark Man

Yay, I missed this old thread

<history head on> Porsches over the years have been rallied very succesfully, the pinnacal being the 959, notably in the Paris-Dakar in the mi-80's, so although not currently in the WRC, they have previously shown great promise

Agree on everything else though, although modern porsches are mainly owned by snobbish people becuase "it is a Porsche" rather than teh way it drives. In turn, these types have ruined the way the car drives as Porsche have increasingly catered for its market's wishes and made the cars more and more soft and comfy and easier to drive over the years (compare a modern 996 to a 911 from the mid 70's, or even 80's at that - thay had no PAS or standard a/c right uptil the early '90s), dispite getting faster and better handling they are nowhere near as hard-core. The exception, of course is the hard-core GT models which still hold on to some of that true Porsche-ness heritage.

I for one compare a 996 as being directly comparable to a 928...fat heavy, fast lux-o-barge. Good car, but not a "true" 911.

AllyJ

Hey sharky, yeah I was comparing the fact you dont see porsches vs subarus in the wrc of recent times, the impreza what came to the fore mid 90s onwards?.

I love my scoob but anyone spending to be honest 100k+ on a car needs their heads examined..this to me is plane and boat territory and for enjoyment, they p*ss all over a car any day of the week, hence waste of money

Probein

I also wouldn't buy a Porsche.

lestippp

I own a 2005 sti ppp with no other major modifications other than prodrive springs and PFF7's. It is an awesome machine and is great in every day use as well as blasting along any road of my choice, I can get my golf clubs in the boot no problem and it is comfortable to sit in, even with the stiffer springs. It also works fine in poor weather conditions, rain, snow, etc. What a car!
Only downside I can think of is its huge thirst at 18 - 20 mpg!

Here is the thing, a few weeks ago I had a porsche cayman S for the day ( a gift from xmas). This car has similar power to the scooby I have @ 295bhp and is a little slower to 60 and similar to 100 but faster on top end. This car was sublime to drive! It felt good, handled amazingly, and the engine note just behind your ears was awesome to say the least. This was a pure driving experience, very smooth and progressive and very useable.

On a dry road the two would be inseperable but that would change in the wet in favour of the Subaru. The image and build of the Porsche is far superior, no doubt.

My point is that the best car is the one you want and can afford.... that simple!
Everyone on here, in general, has chosen to buy a subaru of some kind for just that reason, unless I'm mistaken. When I was younger and had less money I drove the best car I could for the cash available and I still do that. The best being, in all honesty, the most powerful! The best for someone else could be a diesel hatchback.
Truth be told, in general you get what you pay for, pure and simple, if you believe otherwise you are kidding yourself. There is a difference between "value for money" and just "value". The subaru is incredible value for money but then the Porsche is no rip off!

Just my tuppence worth folks.

rallying1

I'll take the scooby

YouTube - Car Comparison Porsche 911 Rally 930 vs Subaru Impreza WRC

diehardbruce

im like whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!