CrisPDuk

The myth about the recoil being capable of stopping the aircraft in flight is just that, a myth. The output of each of the engines is quoted by General Electric as being in the region of 9,000lbf, whereas the recoil of the cannon is about 10,000lbf, so whilst the recoil is enough to significantly slow the aircraft it is not enough to stop it. It depends on which sources you read, but the more reliable ones do say that the A10 has a compensator built into the throttle control that cranks up the power when the gun is fired

One thing they did discover with early versions though was that the gun does have the capability of stopping it's own aircraft The vent gasses (gunsmoke) had a tendecy of finding their way into the left side engine.
Gunsmoke is pretty much oxygen free, and the 30mm cannon generates enough oxygen free gas to kill a turbofan stone dead This is obviously a concern when the aircraft the engine is mounted on is incabable of achieving the airspeed necessary to get it restarted The front of the A10 and the nose of the gun were therefore redesigned to force the venting gasses downward and underneath.


There used to be a pretty cool cutaway on an A10 'fanclub' type website showing the full Avenger system mounted within the A10, but I cant find it to link to it (typical), but the tail of the ammunition feed drum sits roughly level with the engine intakes, so I would say 'huge' does just about sum it up

at Audiknob's 9mm

wrx_yank

it is a plane biult around a gun ... no doubt.... but i love it....dearly


bradley, if a 2 seater CAS role was required .... why not the Ka-52.... hubba hubba....

CrisPDuk

The background to the TSR2/F-111 saga is a long and drawn out affair (too long for a post) but it makes interesting, and deeply unsettling reading

The gist however is that the Labour government at the time, aided and abetted by Lord Mountbatten (a deeply unpleasant man, by many accounts*) yanked the rug from under the project because they were desperately in debt, and the US government would not guarantee an IMF loan whilst competition existed for the abortion that became the F-111
F-35 & Pension black-hole anyone:wonder

*Lord Mountbatten is still intensely disliked in this part of the world thanks to his despicable behaviour in the aftermath of WW2 and into the '50s. He is creditted by many with single handedly killing the TSR2's potentially huge export sales potential, whether this was done at the Government's behest or that of General Dynamics is open to conjecture

CrisPDuk

The root problem still exists though wrx, which is that the US Government cannot be seen to allow one of it's 'partners' to purchase Russian military hardware

What is interesting to note however, is that they haven't yet found a way to stop Kamov working with the Israelis to 'westernise' their product

Sbradley

It didn't exist at that time. In fact its existence now is down to that requirement change - too late to get included but an opportunity to be included in future flyoffs, perhaps...
SB

Leslie

You are right about the scandal of the TSR2 CrisPduk. I was on a test flying tour for all the equipment which was going into that aircraft and we heard about its progress at Boscombe Down through the TP net. It was performing beyond all the required limits designed into it and reputedly was a wonderful machine to fly. I saw the first one having its hydraulics checked at Vickers before it flew. An election was coming up and the blokes were working on it at a run in order to get it in the air hoping to avoid cancellation by Wislon if he got in-which he did. I wrote my name on the wing when we were standing on it

It was a shameful episode when "Wislon" and his mates cancelled it in deference to the financial threats from the US Government. As you said, the F-111 was a "lemon" in comparison. Any system that relied on the serviceability of the fuel gauge itself to read the CG and adjust the front /rear fuel balancing rather that taking the actual fuel values from the sensors is not very well designed, no wonder they had a good few crashes!

The best thing was when the Vulcans with its comparatively old equipment beat the F-111's hollow during their first participation in the Giant Voice International Bombing Competition in Florida!

Les

Sbradley

Yeah, probably the two most opportunistic nations there are were unlikely to miss that particular trick. It's a whole revenue stream that we missed out on...but it's also a can of works I don't want to open here lest I come across all bitter and twisted ;
SB

andythejock01wrx

That's very interesting Simon - when's the book out ?!

CrisPDuk

I bet the alarming rise in the number of Apache's getting perforated by a few Iraqis with machine guns isn't doing Boeings future export sales much good either
I bet there's more than one US Marine chopper pilot who's glad he's still riding an AH-1

CrisPDuk

But the real p!sser is, the F-111 went so far over budget, and was such a piece of ****, we never ordered any anyway Then it wan't until the Tornado GR2 was introduced that the RAF got an aircraft that even approached the TSR2's capabilities and that took the combined efforts of three countries to develop


To paraphrase the Peoples Front of Judea, apart from rip the guts out of our Railway Industry, our Aircraft Industry, our Motor Industry, our Education System, our Police Force and our Pensions, what have the Labour Party ever done for us

Sbradley

Hmmm....that's got me thinking

S'pose you'll be wanting a commission, though

SB

dharbige

Put me down for a free copy!

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

...the TSR..

The British aviation industry.. yet another victim of Labour..

Hey - as long as they kept those money black hole mines open for a few more years huh?

wrx_yank

the AH-1Z with the fully articulated 4 blade rotor and absurdly powerful engines is a great platform.

Sbradley

I'll see your Cobra and raise you a Werewolf









SB

wrx_yank

and im all-in with the "alligator"

wrx_yank

im sorry, but side by side cockpits rule!!!!

Sbradley

That does look rather cool, doesn't it.

I need to make some phone calls and see if I can get a play. I mean, if my consultancy services could be of use...

Possibly even offer them a freebie looking at that

SB

CrisPDuk

You've blown it there Simon, they'll never pay you to fly them now



PS; What are my chances of a blagging a lift if you do get invited to 'evaluate' one of them there 'gators

CrisPDuk

Out of interest Simon, are you still rated to fly one of them there beasties or has everything lapsed now?

spider

iTrader: (1)

Now that ka-52 looks a nice piece of kit!

It must be my age, but from the front it looks like they've grafted the cockpit of a Cessna A37 or a two-seat Hunter on!

Leslie

I'd go for certain.

Les

Sbradley

I'm still current on the Werewolf though that will lapse in May. Joking aside, I'll be pushed to get any further hours on them at all - there's damn all chance of Western money going their way and the Israelis have got their side of things nailed down very, very tight.

But I'm asking

Spider, you're right - very much like an A37. I was trying to work out what it reminded me of. Too slim/flat for a Hunter.

The cockpit on the '52 looks far more advanced than the Werewolf, which didn't have any MFDs and still relied on the original type moving map. Mind you, everything went into the HMD which made up for a lot. Very neat night vision system, too - it projected a wide angle image into the HMD which the pilot looked through. In effect it augmented natural vision and firmed up things you could sort of see but didn't rob your peripheral vision like Western style NVGs do...

SB

CrisPDuk

Why doesn't that surprise me Israelis aren't exactly know for letting a good financial opportunity slip by are they
One thing's for sure, they aren't going to copy the example set by the UK Government with the Harrier (amongst others) and give the stuff away

In fact, I'd be surprised if the Americans even get to look at the Alligators in any official capacity


Keep trying though Simon and don't forget, if you do get a jolly, I'm only 4 hrs from Tel Aviv