EddScott

Can't find it right now.

Still amazed that the only person ITN could find for an opinion was him. It must have been "I know, lets find the person most likely to cause the most offence and interview him"

I don't blame those pilots for what happened and I think most reasonably thinking people will also see it as the accident it was. Would just be nice if the US could bring themselves to admit it was their mistake and apologise rather than this "Casualties of war" rubbish.

EDIT - And to finish my minor rant - if the US decides to go after Iran (which looks like a foregone conclusion) and we join, quite frankly I think the UK government deserves a hufty SLAP!!

Seamaster

Iran will stretch the US army to a new dimension. by that time I hope to god we are out of the mess. The Americans are going to get some serious **** if they keep up this "we own the world" attitude and I for one cant wait to see the smile wiped off their faces.

CrisPDuk

An American invasion of Iran will make Vietnam look like an office Christmas party

Hopefully though, now the Democrats have control of both houses, they can bring the Dick & Don circus under control, before they start World War Three

spider

iTrader: (1)

Hmm - the only link I can find is the Sun - he's in the sidebar on the right. TheSun

Amazingly for the Sun, they haven't repeated his rant. They have got some good quotes from him though: “It wasn’t his mistake. There are steps you have to take before you fire. You don’t just jump in your plane and start shooting" - Really? Watch the video and make your own mind up if he rolled in without clearance.

Leslie

DCI answered that point very well on my behalf.

The other point is that there was a responsibility on the shoulders of the pilots concerned. As I mentioned earlier, we were expected to recognise a target without any doubt before shooting at or dropping weapons on them. We spent many hours in target and recognition study and were examined on it before being allowed to engage in a shooting war. I understand that the Americans don't bother with that which in my mind is totally irresponsible.

If the vehicles were showing the "colours of the day" then there is no excuse for attacking the convoy unless you can positively identify the targets as unfriendly. Better not to shoot at all and maybe let an enemy escape for once rather than killing your allies, however sorry the pilots may have felt about it afterwards. As SBradley explained, the FAC can be a very long way away and would not necessarily know everything that was happening in the area, especially with the inept performance of many of their employees on communications. You have to be sure yourself before firing unless of course you happen to be under attack yourself at the time. They were not!

We always treated US Forces with utmost suspicion since we knew very well that they were always likely to shoot first and ask later, like the RAF Tornado which was shot down by a US operated surface to air missile when it was returning from a mission at the correct height band and squawking correctly on its IFF radar for its proper identification!

This is a an attempted cover up by the Americans as is blatantly obvious by their earlier actions.

Les

spider

iTrader: (1)

Reading another Sun article (yes - I know they're not the source of all wisdom!), it would appear this was no farmer - he apparently had over 20 years time in the USAF - although he was on his first combat mission. Should have understood proper procedures, target ident, joint brevity, etc.

The link also shows the wrecks of the two Scimitars he hit. The Sun - Gus Kohntopp

Brendan Hughes

"Until today, balding Colonel Kohntopp’s identity has only been known to a handful of US military chiefs."

Nice bit of unbiased journalism there

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

One thing about that guy from last night - his full name, a shot of the street he lives on, and the name of his town.

Congratulations - await a visit from some British soldiers on "holiday". They might want a little.. umm.. chat.

Seamaster

Its dumb americans like him that cause all this poo. so brain washed into believing this 'war on terror" crap. I hope he does get a good kicking

FlightMan

It always amazes me how many morons there are, willing to jump on any bandwagon going.

" I hope he gets a good kicking" You're as brainwashed by The Sun as the "dumb Americans" you so obviously hate.

It was a tragic mistake. You can dress it up however you like, but if those guys were certain that those vehicles contained Brits, do you really think they'd have fired?

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Those "guys" didn't have a clue what they were firing at. Thats the whole problem.

Sbradley

I think the more pertinent question would be "should those guys have fired when they weren't utterly certain that those vehicles didn't contain Brits?"

The answer is the same.

No way!

SB

Edited to add that yes, it was a tragic mistake but one which was avoidable with better application of discipline and procedures by both the pilots and their controllers. Oh, and some basic vehicle recognition skills, of course...

Seamaster

Flightman


they screwed up big time. acted badly. they should know that when they go to 'work" it means killing. the skill is to kill the right people. They are part of the blame.

also I dont read the sun.

wrx_yank

you do realize that means thousands of people will die?

you knoew before they were americans, they were human beings.... and they are just doing what they are told.....

hate the people in power, not the solders, seamen, airmen and marines that are just doing their job.

oh and if we do invade iran... who supply insurgants with weapons that kill not only americans, but british troops too, your countrymen will be right by our sides..... so expand your mind and stop living in this ethnocentric british mindset that magazines like the "sun" create just so they can sell papers....

where do you live you *****? next time im flying aroung jolly old england with .50cals on board my chopper, i may pay your neigborhood a visit.... you un human ****.

wrx_yank

colors of the day? where do you get this ****? orange is on all coalition vehicles, and it never changes.... its called a VS-17 pannel and it is 12x18 inches.... not so easy to see from 3000 feet huh? and anyone can buy them for 15$ online.... do your homework honey b4 you run yout mouth.


and that GR-1 tornado was not squawking correct... he was squawking 7001, meaning he was VFR (visual flight rules) ... so yea, correct for no clouds ,but that is about it, not correct for that theatre of battle.... stop getting your military reports form the news! they just make you look like a ****.

Matteeboy

So with almost no knowledge of the situation described (but some military knowledge) if the Americans are doing everything so right, WHY DO THEY KEEP KILLING THEIR OWN SIDE FFS?

wrx_yank

mistakes happen, deal with it.

Matteeboy

What again and again and again?

The Brits seem to be able to prevent themselves from constantly blowing their own side up.

Another nine Iraqi soldiers killed today by the US.

The news is littered with US FF incidents almost daily.
Shoot first, ask questions later.
In fact, leave the questions out and hope they go away.

Seamaster

wrx yank

ok your welcome to visit me. I live in The Uk. Its a small island east of America. sort of west of russia. just near the south east corner is a city with a river running through the middle. Lots of bridges and a big Wheel with lights on. Just shoot up everything in site and you stand a chance. if you see a long wall ? your ffkkdd as youve gone to far east and your in China.

Seamaster

In fact..... just admit . USA is the biggest terrorist outfit in the world. Full of bull**** and burgers.

Seamaster

And lets talk about th ehundreds of iraqis murdered every week by American security forces. Its like the ***** and the jews all over again.

wrx_yank

i live here as well dumb ****.

Seamaster

Vs-17 markers dont have to be orange. they are double sided .

wrx_yank

thanks for typing vs-17 into google and trying to sound knowledgeable.... at least you tried, unlike other s-netters

Seamaster

you dont live here. your a guest. do you pay UK tax?

Anyway get all your lads and come down tonight at 8.00 weapons of choice. meet you in the trees at the "spaniards" near hampstead. dont be late and no excuses.

wrx_yank

yea, exept the jews diddnt blow the ****'s up.

Seamaster

dont be a virgina.... some of us have probably been in more OFFICIAL conflicts and wars than you .

wrx_yank

you're a daft fool..... and i do pay your rediculous tax..... makes me want to throw a boston tea party all over again.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

As a side notes, what is this "joint brevity" that people are talking about. I did a quick google but am not much wiser :s

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

(This isn't a direct attack at you.. but.. )

Neither the US nor the UK are some 3rd rate conscript armed forces. We owe it to ourselves to have more professional pride than except that these kind of things just "happen". They only happen because of stupidity and incompetance, and as professionals we shouldn't accept, condone or make excuses for it.

If the excuse is that its war and confusing and dangerous - well I'm sorry, I thought thats what we're trained for. If people can't do their job in these situations I would suggest that the military isn't meant for them.