US air strike on UK troops.. film footage on GMTV
10 February 2007, 06:53 PM
#211
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Sorry Sbradley,
the only 7000hrs i have is, is military waiting time. "Whats that Sir? oh the goes home bird is U/S in Brize and i'll be here for another 3 days" best ring the wife and tell her she can keep her boy friend at home for a bit longer.
However i am one of gods children, born with a hammer in my hand and om15 in my veins.
the only 7000hrs i have is, is military waiting time. "Whats that Sir? oh the goes home bird is U/S in Brize and i'll be here for another 3 days" best ring the wife and tell her she can keep her boy friend at home for a bit longer.
However i am one of gods children, born with a hammer in my hand and om15 in my veins.
10 February 2007, 06:59 PM
#212
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10 February 2007, 07:01 PM
#213
Yip, don't turn that down if you get the chance.. they're a good ride... especially after the US Army forgets to come pick you up... 
The night flights are the ones to have though!
The night flights are the ones to have though!
Last edited by Prasius; 10 February 2007 at 07:04 PM.
10 February 2007, 07:49 PM
#216
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[QUOTE=rob878;6645286][quote=wrx_yank;6645184]
Brings to mind the time the US admiral playing Red Fleet Commander managed to 'sink' two Nimitz class aircraft carriers using just powerboats, semtex and minarets
The USN cried foul and refused to accept the result was even a possibility
Then two Yemenis proved it could work for real
You should have taken your own advice there on the homework wrx
If you had you'd have known that Les is a nuclear bomber pilot. formerly of Her Majesty's Royal Air Force
Hmm interesting point about red flag, the first week when we play red air we are only allowed to use swear words and the occasional obscene gesture. The next 2 weeks we are allowed to start using the whole range of weaponary, including jtids however we aren't allowed to use an awacs. Now lets look at the range of weaponary blue air can use. Hmmm that would be a GR4 bomber package from either the luftwafe or the RAF with top cover provided by the F15's and 16's. AWACS online, etc. The numbers for blue air are overwhelming as they have to win. After all if red air wins then there is something seriously wrong.
As for being god gift to flying i'm sure Leslie will back me up in stating that Red Flag has been witness to the god gift of flying when the Buccaneers went there, well until they were banned for flying at 50-100ft over the range and in one case leaving wing tip votex marks on the desert floor as they turned.
Anyway i have met some lovely americans over the years In GW2, 2001 Red Flag, 2007 Jan Red Flag, Moutain Home 2005, however you seem to a perfect ****. I note that you fly helicopters, to paraphrase a mate of mine who started getting some bollox from a jockey, "oi mate the fact i fix helicopters is no reflection on my ability, the fact that you fly them is" I'm sure you'll work this one out.
If you had you'd have known that Les is a nuclear bomber pilot. formerly of Her Majesty's Royal Air Force
Hmm interesting point about red flag, the first week when we play red air we are only allowed to use swear words and the occasional obscene gesture. The next 2 weeks we are allowed to start using the whole range of weaponary, including jtids however we aren't allowed to use an awacs. Now lets look at the range of weaponary blue air can use. Hmmm that would be a GR4 bomber package from either the luftwafe or the RAF with top cover provided by the F15's and 16's. AWACS online, etc. The numbers for blue air are overwhelming as they have to win. After all if red air wins then there is something seriously wrong.
As for being god gift to flying i'm sure Leslie will back me up in stating that Red Flag has been witness to the god gift of flying when the Buccaneers went there, well until they were banned for flying at 50-100ft over the range and in one case leaving wing tip votex marks on the desert floor as they turned.
Anyway i have met some lovely americans over the years In GW2, 2001 Red Flag, 2007 Jan Red Flag, Moutain Home 2005, however you seem to a perfect ****. I note that you fly helicopters, to paraphrase a mate of mine who started getting some bollox from a jockey, "oi mate the fact i fix helicopters is no reflection on my ability, the fact that you fly them is" I'm sure you'll work this one out.
The USN cried foul and refused to accept the result was even a possibility Then two Yemenis proved it could work for real
10 February 2007, 07:53 PM
#217
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Dont under estimate "team Scoobynet.
1. lewis builds the bomb
2. Chaos tests them (Well use to !!)
3. Leslie delivers them (On target)
4. Simon flies the casevac following the 'incident' where the US Army shoots Leslie's Vulcan down on the return leg
5. Astra arranges the "after party"
Game on !
1. lewis builds the bomb
2. Chaos tests them (Well use to !!)
3. Leslie delivers them (On target)
4. Simon flies the casevac following the 'incident' where the US Army shoots Leslie's Vulcan down on the return leg
5. Astra arranges the "after party"
Game on !
Slight correction in the interests of accuracy
10 February 2007, 08:42 PM
#220
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Sorry Sbradley,
the only 7000hrs i have is, is military waiting time. "Whats that Sir? oh the goes home bird is U/S in Brize and i'll be here for another 3 days" best ring the wife and tell her she can keep her boy friend at home for a bit longer.
However i am one of gods children, born with a hammer in my hand and om15 in my veins.
the only 7000hrs i have is, is military waiting time. "Whats that Sir? oh the goes home bird is U/S in Brize and i'll be here for another 3 days" best ring the wife and tell her she can keep her boy friend at home for a bit longer.
However i am one of gods children, born with a hammer in my hand and om15 in my veins.
ditto but OX24
10 February 2007, 09:29 PM
#221
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Any thoughts as to why the US generals chose a vehicle tracking system that was not compliant with the NATO standard for first-tier battlefield identification, almost guaranteeing no interoperability with units attached to other forces? Smacks of saving money at the expense of the lives of good friends to me.
Battlefield systems integration isn't quite as easy as some people here seem to think. If the US had adopted standards it was party to setting up, these events could have been avoided.
Point of note: the UK has also cut funding with respect to these systems, so the UK movers and shakers are partly to blame as well, but the US decision makers are just as much a part of the problem. Some here seem to think the US system is some kind of panacea, it fundamentally could not have addressed the events described here.
11 February 2007, 04:47 AM
#222
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My bad
11 February 2007, 12:42 PM
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arguing with you ***-hats is like feeding a retard. no matter how much usefull stuff you put in , slop gets spit out.
keep reading the sun you ignorant ethnocentric fools....
they were at 3000 feet because that is their hard deck, helos supposedly own below that, unles it is CSAR RESCORT.....
your "effective range" bologna is proposterous.... a .50cal can go 1500 meters and still penetrate armor.... you think 30mm can only go 2/3 of that?
your dunb soldiers should have shot back.... that pilot was a moron.... , then again he would have recieved the SAFIRE and dropped a bomb on the dumbasses!
so you decide... im done trying to hold an intelligent conversation with you bandwagon jumping scapegoaters.
every time you lose an arguement, you come up with some slick line like "england is better than USA... uhhhh you suck, we rule" ( not your exact words, but that is the jist) good comeback children.... have a nice day.
keep reading the sun you ignorant ethnocentric fools....
they were at 3000 feet because that is their hard deck, helos supposedly own below that, unles it is CSAR RESCORT.....
your "effective range" bologna is proposterous.... a .50cal can go 1500 meters and still penetrate armor.... you think 30mm can only go 2/3 of that?
your dunb soldiers should have shot back.... that pilot was a moron.... , then again he would have recieved the SAFIRE and dropped a bomb on the dumbasses!
so you decide... im done trying to hold an intelligent conversation with you bandwagon jumping scapegoaters.
every time you lose an arguement, you come up with some slick line like "england is better than USA... uhhhh you suck, we rule" ( not your exact words, but that is the jist) good comeback children.... have a nice day.
I just don't think you really know what you are talking about but are trying to argue by numbers since your facts are total rubbish. At least you admit that the A10 pilots were at fault, but you are frantically trying to tell us things that some us know from our own experience are just not true! You should be more careful who you pick an argument with.
As SBradley says, and he knows what he is talking about, the aging Buccaneers during simulated daylight attacks, and the Vulcans flying low level at night through the mountain ranges left your defences for dead! During two 6 week detachments(TDY to you), at Nellis, not a single Vulcan was "shot down" by the SAM's and we hit our targets every time. The low level part was never detected by the F15's on CAP with their lookdown /shoot down capability and the only way we could get their attention was to fire off a Battlestar (IR Flare) so that they could see us visually. We then jammed their AI radar anyway! We did that just to wind them up since they were almost as full of "it" as you are! The F15's also found out the hard way that they could not turn with a Vulcan at high level after they boasted that they could. So they bought the beers in the bar
My major operational experience for a good many years was low level ground attack with shallow dive bombing as well as with cannon on various other aircraft and laydown low level bombing with the Vulcan where we had to be capable of very low level at night and in cloud during attack. A point of interest was that we were told never to go within 30 miles of a US ship! I do therefore have a bit of experience in these things. So you should do your own homework before you start shouting about our lack of ability over here. You have not of course told us what your actual job is and what you are qualified to do in the choppers.
My final point is that all your bluster and insulting words etc do nothing to reinforce your arguments rather that weaken them, and demonstrates a distinct lack of maturity!
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 11 February 2007 at 11:25 PM. Reason: correction
11 February 2007, 02:52 PM
#224
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11 February 2007, 03:43 PM
#226
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I have seen some desperate posts on this forum, but your's really take the biscuit WRX Yank.
I just don't think you really know what you are talking about but are trying to argue by numbers since your facts are total rubbish. At least you admit that the A10 pilots were at fault, but you are frantically trying to tell us things that some us know from our own experience are just not true! You should be more careful who you pick an argument with.
As SBradley says, and he knows what he is talking about, the aging Buccaneers during simulated daylight attacks, and the Vulcans flying low level at night through the mountain ranges left your defences for dead! During two 6 week detachments(TDY to you), at Nellis, not a single Vulcan was "shot down" by the SAM's and we hit our targets every time. The low level part was never detected by the F15's on CAP with their lookdown /shoot down capability and the only way we could get their attention was to fire off a Battlestar (IR Flare) so that they could see us visually. We then jammed their AI radar anyway! We did that just to wind them up since they were almost as full of "it" as you are! The F15's also found out the hard way that they could not turn with a Vulcan at high level after they boasted that they could. So they bought the beers in the bar
My major operational experience for a good many years was low level ground attack with shallow dive bombing as well as with cannon on various other aircraft and laydown low level bombing with the Vulcan where we had to be capable of very low level at night and in cloud during attack. A point of interest was that we were told never to go within 30 miles of a US ship since they would shoot us down regardless of our IFF! I do therefore have a bit of experience in these things. So you should do your own homework before you start shouting about our lack of ability over here. You have not of course told us what your actual job is and what you are qualified to do in the choppers.
My final point is that all your bluster and insulting words etc do nothing to reinforce your arguments rather that weaken them, and demonstrates a distinct lack of maturity!
Les
I just don't think you really know what you are talking about but are trying to argue by numbers since your facts are total rubbish. At least you admit that the A10 pilots were at fault, but you are frantically trying to tell us things that some us know from our own experience are just not true! You should be more careful who you pick an argument with.
As SBradley says, and he knows what he is talking about, the aging Buccaneers during simulated daylight attacks, and the Vulcans flying low level at night through the mountain ranges left your defences for dead! During two 6 week detachments(TDY to you), at Nellis, not a single Vulcan was "shot down" by the SAM's and we hit our targets every time. The low level part was never detected by the F15's on CAP with their lookdown /shoot down capability and the only way we could get their attention was to fire off a Battlestar (IR Flare) so that they could see us visually. We then jammed their AI radar anyway! We did that just to wind them up since they were almost as full of "it" as you are! The F15's also found out the hard way that they could not turn with a Vulcan at high level after they boasted that they could. So they bought the beers in the bar
My major operational experience for a good many years was low level ground attack with shallow dive bombing as well as with cannon on various other aircraft and laydown low level bombing with the Vulcan where we had to be capable of very low level at night and in cloud during attack. A point of interest was that we were told never to go within 30 miles of a US ship since they would shoot us down regardless of our IFF! I do therefore have a bit of experience in these things. So you should do your own homework before you start shouting about our lack of ability over here. You have not of course told us what your actual job is and what you are qualified to do in the choppers.
My final point is that all your bluster and insulting words etc do nothing to reinforce your arguments rather that weaken them, and demonstrates a distinct lack of maturity!
Les
Les go easy on the guy. remember he has been brain washed.
11 February 2007, 04:53 PM
#227
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So, not only can the all singing, all dancing, state-of-the-art, air superiority 'masterpiece' that is the F15 be out dragged in most* directions by an obsolete 50 year old British Fighter, it can be outdone in the twisties by an extinct British Bomber
*Obviously an F15 would be quicker downhill than a Lightning, heavier stuff always drops faster
11 February 2007, 05:34 PM
#229
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Only just noticed that part of your post Simon. Something I've often wondered about those Kamovs is how the **** do you steer a chopper with no tail rotor
Is the pitch of both the main rotors indepependently variable or is it done some other way?
11 February 2007, 11:50 PM
#230
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Yes it is true about the turning bit CrisPDuk, it came up in conversation in the bar and the F15 guys would not believe what we were telling them, so we arranged a meet at 40K after an exercise finished and it was demonstrated to them that where we could pull a 2+G turn at that sort of height and sustain it, they were into the high speed stall instantly if they tried to stay with us. We enjoyed the beer
We actually got on very well with them as they were a good bunch and they certainly respected our aircraft too. The F15 is a very good aircraft and I was able to inspect one with its engines removed. It was beautifully built and I would have loved to get my hands on one. It certainly did a very impressive vertical climb out of the airfield until it was virtually out of sight. I did however manage to call "splash" on one during our day famil trip through the Nellis ranges. He and his mate dropped down to low level to have a look at us and I have to admit I caught him by surprise by turning straight towards him. He turned away and I got on his tail. He took a while to live that one down with his squadron We made them believe that the inflight refuelling probe was a large cannon! As you say, the Buccaneer crews were a force to be reckoned with. They vied with the Wild Weasels and then some! Least said about the wing spars the better though!
Les
12 February 2007, 02:35 AM
#231
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Didn't occur to any of them to query how any aircraft, even one as large as a Vulcan, would deal with the recoil from a cannon with the bore of a refuel probe
A10s have a compensator that automatically ups the engine power when the gun fires, and that's 'only' firing 30mm shells
12 February 2007, 11:01 AM
#233
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Yes you are quite right about the recoil CrispDuk, but they never thought to ask about that
Les
12 February 2007, 11:10 AM
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Though the quote of the year goes to Big Rig at Mountain Home, Boise, Idaho 2005 when approached by an american crew chief he was asked "how does it feel not to be in the the biggest air force in the world?" to which the Big lad replied with out looking up from his task " how does it feel not to be in the best?"
12 February 2007, 01:39 PM
#235
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Just for historical sake, this little quip was first used in the second world war between two squadrons of war ships in the Atlantic. An American squadron was passing a British one, then the Americans signaled via lamp "what's it like to be in the second largest navy in the world?", the lead British ship signaled back "What's it like to be in the second best?"
The Imperial Japanese Navy, for the early part of WW2 at least, was most probably larger than the Royal Navy
and the German Navy was, for the whole of the conflict, most definitely technically better than the US Navy
12 February 2007, 01:42 PM
#236
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Just for historical sake, this little quip was first used in the second world war between two squadrons of war ships in the Atlantic. An American squadron was passing a British one, then the Americans signaled via lamp "what's it like to be in the second largest navy in the world?", the lead British ship signaled back "What's it like to be in the second best?"
12 February 2007, 02:04 PM
#237
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That's exactly how it's done.
Normally both sets of blades have the same pitch so both provide the same lift and the same torque. To yaw, you increase the pitch on one set and decrease on the other - lift remains the same overall but there is now more torque one way or the other, depending on which rotor disc you've increased pitch on, so the aircraft will yaw. Rolling is accomplished in the usual way, but with a slightly (!) more complicated swash plate than usual.
The result from a pilot's point of view is an aircraft you can hover hands-free without too much sweat. Suddenly applying more collective doesn't affect everything else which makes pop-up attacks much easier to manage. You also have a advancing/retreating blade on each side which negates some of the high seed flight issues helicopters can encounter ad the lack of tail rotor hels with the massively increased flight envelope as it's something less to worry about breaking or hitting.
Downside is a slightly increased radar signature and a more complex set of linkages for the techies to fiddle with. As several here will attest, that's the least thig to worry about...
We took them off to do dissimilar air combat with various things and got a 9:1 kill ratio against Apaches...and 3:1 against F16s. Nobody told the stovies we could carry Archer AAMs (somewhat better than last generation all aspect Sidewinders)
SB
12 February 2007, 10:23 PM
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Andy
13 February 2007, 01:47 AM
#239
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Check out the big brain on CrisP!
That's exactly how it's done.
Normally both sets of blades have the same pitch so both provide the same lift and the same torque. To yaw, you increase the pitch on one set and decrease on the other - lift remains the same overall but there is now more torque one way or the other, depending on which rotor disc you've increased pitch on, so the aircraft will yaw. Rolling is accomplished in the usual way, but with a slightly (!) more complicated swash plate than usual.
The result from a pilot's point of view is an aircraft you can hover hands-free without too much sweat. Suddenly applying more collective doesn't affect everything else which makes pop-up attacks much easier to manage. You also have a advancing/retreating blade on each side which negates some of the high seed flight issues helicopters can encounter ad the lack of tail rotor hels with the massively increased flight envelope as it's something less to worry about breaking or hitting.
Downside is a slightly increased radar signature and a more complex set of linkages for the techies to fiddle with. As several here will attest, that's the least thig to worry about...
We took them off to do dissimilar air combat with various things and got a 9:1 kill ratio against Apaches...and 3:1 against F16s. Nobody told the stovies we could carry Archer AAMs (somewhat better than last generation all aspect Sidewinders)
SB
That's exactly how it's done.
Normally both sets of blades have the same pitch so both provide the same lift and the same torque. To yaw, you increase the pitch on one set and decrease on the other - lift remains the same overall but there is now more torque one way or the other, depending on which rotor disc you've increased pitch on, so the aircraft will yaw. Rolling is accomplished in the usual way, but with a slightly (!) more complicated swash plate than usual.
The result from a pilot's point of view is an aircraft you can hover hands-free without too much sweat. Suddenly applying more collective doesn't affect everything else which makes pop-up attacks much easier to manage. You also have a advancing/retreating blade on each side which negates some of the high seed flight issues helicopters can encounter ad the lack of tail rotor hels with the massively increased flight envelope as it's something less to worry about breaking or hitting.
Downside is a slightly increased radar signature and a more complex set of linkages for the techies to fiddle with. As several here will attest, that's the least thig to worry about...
We took them off to do dissimilar air combat with various things and got a 9:1 kill ratio against Apaches...and 3:1 against F16s. Nobody told the stovies we could carry Archer AAMs (somewhat better than last generation all aspect Sidewinders)
SB
(Note to self: Must try harder)The pitch control of the two rotors is interlinked, rather than independent then? That makes sense when you bring lift into the equation.
Damned clever chaps them Russkies
Comes from playing outdoor chess all day in sub-zero conditions I suppose, the cold must concentrate the mind somewhatWhere did you kick Apache and F16 butt then
In their own back yard I hope Them F16s are OK in theory, but getting an AAM right up your only tailpipe must just ruin your whole day
13 February 2007, 09:30 AM
#240
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