New Elise or P1
11 December 2001, 03:33 PM
#32
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ok i admit i said out of control, ie im a crap driver and dont know what im doing, but someone who knows how to drive or has got used to driving in a rwd car, would be better. If you know what you are doing its a very good car. And if this 4x4 has softend you scobby drivers well thats a shame 
(no malice intended, just messin)
(no malice intended, just messin)
11 December 2001, 03:44 PM
#33
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For sure I would put the Elise through the first hedge I came to.
I'm not a good driver which is why I need all the help I can get from the car.
This is why I think the Elise is best kept for the track. (And it is a touch pricey, isn't it?)
As someone once wisely said:
"Don't confuse your intentions with your abilities."
- I always try to remember that, otherwise I will come a cropper.
I'm not a good driver which is why I need all the help I can get from the car.
This is why I think the Elise is best kept for the track. (And it is a touch pricey, isn't it?)
As someone once wisely said:
"Don't confuse your intentions with your abilities."
- I always try to remember that, otherwise I will come a cropper.
11 December 2001, 03:51 PM
#34
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Blimey - elises aren't that hard to drive. Not as easy as 4wd Jap cars that have more brains than us but as long as you dont lift off violently when pushing hard in a bend (but you shouldn't do that in any car) or barke real vicious and lock up at high speed (like I did and smashed my old 111s to bits :-) ). Its easy to go 8/10ths with them at trackdays and loads of fun at that level. It just takes some real serious skill to go 10/10ths.
The point of the elise is its not about getting it out of shape, its about lower speed fun and driving very precisely & neat, slow in/fast out. Thats when they're the best & most rewarding. There's no need or incentive to drive like a nutter in them.
The point of the elise is its not about getting it out of shape, its about lower speed fun and driving very precisely & neat, slow in/fast out. Thats when they're the best & most rewarding. There's no need or incentive to drive like a nutter in them.
11 December 2001, 03:56 PM
#35
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dont get me wrong at elise is a great car to drive normally, if you can put with the harsh ride, uncomfy seats and lack of extra's then its fine and you will get a perforance car with a return of 40 mpg! Also teh rear view is very restrictive as my mate knows as he just has to pay out £500 for a reapair to the rear clam where he hit a post reversing. Lotus wanted £1500!!! But other engine service parts are cheap and a normal rover dealer can do the regular serviceing no problem. I guess its horses for courses.
11 December 2001, 04:51 PM
#36
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Easy - the P1 every time. Currently have a P1 and used to have an Elise (not the layest model I'll grant you. It proved the old acronym 'Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious' is true. The worst car I have ever owned by a country mile.
- impractical for every day use (numb **** beyond 60 miles, seats don't adjust properly, drive it at your peril in the wet, roof fitting was like re-assembling a child's pram, sod all luggage space, you can never relax in it - fun for a blast but annoying after a long day in the dark, engine too loud to hear the radio etc etc)
- p***ed oil out of the exhaust no matter what I did to it
- gear box always crunched
- too slow by far, could just about match an old M3 up to 60 but above this ran out of puff
- fibreglas body loved to acquire cracks at the slighest encouragement
- too low to reach car park tickets etc
- you have to be a limbo dance to get in and out and if you're taller than 5'6" forget it
to be fair, looked great (silver, blue leather) and was brilliant on a track (back track at Silverstone). The P1 every day is like taking a wolf for a walk on a lead - it's fun to have along and you can't wait to let it off. No competition.
Gordo
- impractical for every day use (numb **** beyond 60 miles, seats don't adjust properly, drive it at your peril in the wet, roof fitting was like re-assembling a child's pram, sod all luggage space, you can never relax in it - fun for a blast but annoying after a long day in the dark, engine too loud to hear the radio etc etc)
- p***ed oil out of the exhaust no matter what I did to it
- gear box always crunched
- too slow by far, could just about match an old M3 up to 60 but above this ran out of puff
- fibreglas body loved to acquire cracks at the slighest encouragement
- too low to reach car park tickets etc
- you have to be a limbo dance to get in and out and if you're taller than 5'6" forget it
to be fair, looked great (silver, blue leather) and was brilliant on a track (back track at Silverstone). The P1 every day is like taking a wolf for a walk on a lead - it's fun to have along and you can't wait to let it off. No competition.
Gordo
11 December 2001, 05:29 PM
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Weekend toy in the summer the elise would be nice, I do loads of miles so the P1 is just incredible - anywhere! Never driven the elise so wouldn't want to comment on a comparison in terms of reasonable speed, driving fun.
Been for a couple of rides in a friend's elise, new shape, and call me a wuss but it scared the living c**p out of me on motorways. It felt like it was going to be wipeout at any minute - the M25 was like Death Race 2000, I hated every second of it. Beemer drivers are bad enough when they've got a childish point to proove, which is fine in the P1, just pull over, but in the Elise it felt like we were about to be eaten. Puntos looked huge - and it's been back to Lotus 6 times in four months... blu tack and sellotape seem to be the order of the day.
Been for a couple of rides in a friend's elise, new shape, and call me a wuss but it scared the living c**p out of me on motorways. It felt like it was going to be wipeout at any minute - the M25 was like Death Race 2000, I hated every second of it. Beemer drivers are bad enough when they've got a childish point to proove, which is fine in the P1, just pull over, but in the Elise it felt like we were about to be eaten. Puntos looked huge - and it's been back to Lotus 6 times in four months... blu tack and sellotape seem to be the order of the day.
12 December 2001, 09:29 AM
#38
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OK... going to have to chime in here...theres an awful lot of BS.
I've got loads of friends with Scoobies, and they are forever fixing them. Overboosting, leaking radiators, random smoke, misfiring, melted 3rd piston etc etc.
I went on a 2500 mile blast around Scotland with some people from the evo forum. The Elise was the only car not to suffer a failure.
After 40,000 miles and 3 years, the paint is in good condition, I have no rattles, have never had an engine problem (ok..it popped a coolant hose off...loose jubilee clip), and have consistently got 45mpg. (ok...35 on a blast, 25/30 on track)
The arguement of buying Subaru because you do a lot of miles is ludicrous... especially on a P1. P1s have halved in value, and thats for the good ones. Guestimate, that they've depreciated 4 or 5 times harder than an Elise. (about £7000 per year?!!!) So... if you do lots of miles, you'll have a young, high mileage P1 to sell, to a market that doesnt even want mint ones. You may aswell bin it. Insurance on a P1 is about double that on an Elise. Add to that, at say 20,000 miles a year, the P1 will cost you about £2500 more in fuel than the Elise... they just become financially crippling to run. (£10000/yr including depreciation, tyres, fuel) If you had that much money, why not buy a 330D and a caterham R500?
To those who think Elise are tricky to drive.... you need to go on a driving course. They are not.. they just drive like a car should. A decent amount of common sense and skill, and you'll be fine.
As for safety...I'd rather have a smack in my Aluminium tubbed, carbon fibre fronted, fibreglass bodied structure that is the only car apart from the McLaren F1 to survive the 30mph frontal impact test and still be driveable. That'll be the carbon fibre then. Scoobies fold up like tinfoil on impact, judging by a lot of the crash photos on here, and how much damage that lampost did to Chelles car. Tut (hello tut!) smacked his Elise into a ditch at...err...high speed. The alu tub was undamaged and the car is back on the road again.
Cant comment on driving Scoobies, as I've only driven a few, and not for that long. Nice cars... not quite as special as an Elise however. Some ex Scooby owning friends who now have Elises said to me 'Now I know what i've been missing' after test driving an Elise.
<flamesuit on>
Bri
I've got loads of friends with Scoobies, and they are forever fixing them. Overboosting, leaking radiators, random smoke, misfiring, melted 3rd piston etc etc.
I went on a 2500 mile blast around Scotland with some people from the evo forum. The Elise was the only car not to suffer a failure.
After 40,000 miles and 3 years, the paint is in good condition, I have no rattles, have never had an engine problem (ok..it popped a coolant hose off...loose jubilee clip), and have consistently got 45mpg. (ok...35 on a blast, 25/30 on track)
The arguement of buying Subaru because you do a lot of miles is ludicrous... especially on a P1. P1s have halved in value, and thats for the good ones. Guestimate, that they've depreciated 4 or 5 times harder than an Elise. (about £7000 per year?!!!) So... if you do lots of miles, you'll have a young, high mileage P1 to sell, to a market that doesnt even want mint ones. You may aswell bin it. Insurance on a P1 is about double that on an Elise. Add to that, at say 20,000 miles a year, the P1 will cost you about £2500 more in fuel than the Elise... they just become financially crippling to run. (£10000/yr including depreciation, tyres, fuel) If you had that much money, why not buy a 330D and a caterham R500?
To those who think Elise are tricky to drive.... you need to go on a driving course. They are not.. they just drive like a car should. A decent amount of common sense and skill, and you'll be fine.
As for safety...I'd rather have a smack in my Aluminium tubbed, carbon fibre fronted, fibreglass bodied structure that is the only car apart from the McLaren F1 to survive the 30mph frontal impact test and still be driveable. That'll be the carbon fibre then. Scoobies fold up like tinfoil on impact, judging by a lot of the crash photos on here, and how much damage that lampost did to Chelles car. Tut (hello tut!) smacked his Elise into a ditch at...err...high speed. The alu tub was undamaged and the car is back on the road again.
Cant comment on driving Scoobies, as I've only driven a few, and not for that long. Nice cars... not quite as special as an Elise however. Some ex Scooby owning friends who now have Elises said to me 'Now I know what i've been missing' after test driving an Elise.
<flamesuit on>
Bri
12 December 2001, 09:43 AM
#39
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Agree with Brian there, if you think an Elise is tricky to drive then you need lessons.
For driver envolvement and at-one-with-the-road-ness, an Elise is hard to beat.
However, if you need boot space then you'll probably have to compromise and go for a saloon, like an Evo or somesuch. There is no sane reason known to man to buy an Impreza though.
For driver envolvement and at-one-with-the-road-ness, an Elise is hard to beat.
However, if you need boot space then you'll probably have to compromise and go for a saloon, like an Evo or somesuch. There is no sane reason known to man to buy an Impreza though.
12 December 2001, 10:17 AM
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Oh dear some unfair scoob knocking going on again.
BDrought
1) I have no experience of Elise but do of Elan which my sister owned which was in my opinion an unreliable plastic bathtub once you got past the open road driving experience. That said it had plenty of endearing features.
2)Scoobs do not fall apart - I dont know the owners your thinking about but they are the exception. I have owned 3 none of which has ever had any real problems.
3) If the P1 is so much worse than an stock EVO why do EVO mag et al prefer it to the stock EVO 6 and why did Autocar say it was better than the 6 except Ralliarts tweaked test cars and better than them once you change tyres and go for brake upgrade. Oh sorry car mags are compulsive liars that are just out to hood wink everyone on the back of large bribes NOT.
4)P1 values. They do not half value in 6 months. True 31k is steep new but most are sold new below this level and there is infact a healthy second hand market for them. The prices you refer to in the low 20s are either trade in values or used values for the oldest and most worn examples. The new STi weighs 200kg more is cheaper less powerful and slower. It is not direct competition for the P1 until a P2 is brought out.
5) Most P1 owners are more than happy with their cars.
6) There are not lots of new unreg P1s left now. Speaking to someone recently who delivers them they are all sold.
7) The Elise is a great car and is totally different to a P1 and the two cannot be compared. I would love one as a second car.
8) As a high mileage car the P1 is easy to live with apart from low spoiler. It is better on fuel than UK impreza if driven sensibly I get about 25-28pg out of mine.
9) I have heard Elise owners winging about depreciation and only been offered 13k trade in on a year old modded elise £10k depreciation in one year.
10) I have learnt that these Scoob vs threads are never resolved as everyone has a different opinion.
11) Rant finished
BDrought
1) I have no experience of Elise but do of Elan which my sister owned which was in my opinion an unreliable plastic bathtub once you got past the open road driving experience. That said it had plenty of endearing features.
2)Scoobs do not fall apart - I dont know the owners your thinking about but they are the exception. I have owned 3 none of which has ever had any real problems.
3) If the P1 is so much worse than an stock EVO why do EVO mag et al prefer it to the stock EVO 6 and why did Autocar say it was better than the 6 except Ralliarts tweaked test cars and better than them once you change tyres and go for brake upgrade. Oh sorry car mags are compulsive liars that are just out to hood wink everyone on the back of large bribes NOT.
4)P1 values. They do not half value in 6 months. True 31k is steep new but most are sold new below this level and there is infact a healthy second hand market for them. The prices you refer to in the low 20s are either trade in values or used values for the oldest and most worn examples. The new STi weighs 200kg more is cheaper less powerful and slower. It is not direct competition for the P1 until a P2 is brought out.
5) Most P1 owners are more than happy with their cars.
6) There are not lots of new unreg P1s left now. Speaking to someone recently who delivers them they are all sold.
7) The Elise is a great car and is totally different to a P1 and the two cannot be compared. I would love one as a second car.
8) As a high mileage car the P1 is easy to live with apart from low spoiler. It is better on fuel than UK impreza if driven sensibly I get about 25-28pg out of mine.
9) I have heard Elise owners winging about depreciation and only been offered 13k trade in on a year old modded elise £10k depreciation in one year.
10) I have learnt that these Scoob vs threads are never resolved as everyone has a different opinion.
11) Rant finished
12 December 2001, 10:58 AM
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Err, Wilf.. no unfair Scooby bashing as far as I can see. The anti-elise arguements were a bit half hearted, and mostly incorrect. As a pure car for driving..its no contest. If you need 4 doors and a boot, get an estate of sorts. If you need something to commute in, get a 330D. If you need a car to go from A-B as fast as possible, get a Evo (or a Scoob, if you dont mind missing what we Elise people like to call 'steering feel')
All imho of course.
Rich..shut it you 4WD driving girl
All imho of course.
Rich..shut it you 4WD driving girl
12 December 2001, 11:04 AM
#45
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I owned an Elise for two years, fantastic in the sunshine and dry but a complete nightmare in the wet but only if you have to slow down or stop.
When stuck in a traffic jam, in the rain, the horizontally mounted front radiator starts to steam, due to the water entering it, great fun to start with, but the more you sit there the more steam you get and when you eventually pull away, the steam is somehow sucked back into the internal heater and is blown up the inside of the windscreen completely obscuring your view, as the screen is so steeply raked you can only reach the top section of the screen to clear the mist with a cloth.
You then think that winding down the window may help, getting a bit of fresh air in may solve the misting problem, as the heater is just making it worse - you'd be wrong, water starts pouring off the roof and peeing in, onto the side sills, so up goes the window but by some miracle of modern engineering water now starts dripping in, so now you need a sponge or cloth for the front screen, a sponge or cloth for the drivers side sill and if your unlucky a sponge or cloth for the passenger sill as thats probably leaking as well!
Now comes the best bit, the aluminum side sill start to get hot due to the hot water from the engine being pumped through them, this causes what I called the “mobile sauna effect”, so now the water that’s dripping in is getting heated up and this then steams up all the window, its a real viscous circle, the longer you sit there the hotter it gets, and the more steamed up its gets, and you can’t wind down the window cause it make things worse and the heater make no difference as it’s quite happy to blow hot damp air up your windscreen til the cows come home!
An Elise in the rain in a traffic jam is horrible place to be. An elise in sun is the best place to be and considering our climate - well what can i say, the elise was part-ex’d for a Scoob.
On rainy days I often see Elise’s in traffic jams and smile to myself, knowing that only a few feet away the owners is in there, enjoying his/her own little sauna!
Pete
When stuck in a traffic jam, in the rain, the horizontally mounted front radiator starts to steam, due to the water entering it, great fun to start with, but the more you sit there the more steam you get and when you eventually pull away, the steam is somehow sucked back into the internal heater and is blown up the inside of the windscreen completely obscuring your view, as the screen is so steeply raked you can only reach the top section of the screen to clear the mist with a cloth.
You then think that winding down the window may help, getting a bit of fresh air in may solve the misting problem, as the heater is just making it worse - you'd be wrong, water starts pouring off the roof and peeing in, onto the side sills, so up goes the window but by some miracle of modern engineering water now starts dripping in, so now you need a sponge or cloth for the front screen, a sponge or cloth for the drivers side sill and if your unlucky a sponge or cloth for the passenger sill as thats probably leaking as well!
Now comes the best bit, the aluminum side sill start to get hot due to the hot water from the engine being pumped through them, this causes what I called the “mobile sauna effect”, so now the water that’s dripping in is getting heated up and this then steams up all the window, its a real viscous circle, the longer you sit there the hotter it gets, and the more steamed up its gets, and you can’t wind down the window cause it make things worse and the heater make no difference as it’s quite happy to blow hot damp air up your windscreen til the cows come home!
An Elise in the rain in a traffic jam is horrible place to be. An elise in sun is the best place to be and considering our climate - well what can i say, the elise was part-ex’d for a Scoob.
On rainy days I often see Elise’s in traffic jams and smile to myself, knowing that only a few feet away the owners is in there, enjoying his/her own little sauna!
Pete
12 December 2001, 11:36 AM
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As a driving machine I am amazed that any of you can possibly think the Scoob is in the same league as the Elise!
It isn't. It's a 4 door 4 seater front engined saloon, which means it is so compromised already that there is no chance of regaining the kind of input response that an Elise gives, no matter what you do to it.
The Impreza is a great car, but lets have some perspective here.
It isn't. It's a 4 door 4 seater front engined saloon, which means it is so compromised already that there is no chance of regaining the kind of input response that an Elise gives, no matter what you do to it.
The Impreza is a great car, but lets have some perspective here.
12 December 2001, 03:16 PM
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bdrought
you are right there is a lot of BS on this thread, most of it seems to be coming from you. Please tell me where u can buy all these P1s at £15,750??????????????????
I suggest you take back what u have said about Subarus, and especially P1's as you are obviously talking complete boll**ks. Reliabiliy wise the day when an elise tops the JD power survey is the day ill go and buy one.
you are right there is a lot of BS on this thread, most of it seems to be coming from you. Please tell me where u can buy all these P1s at £15,750??????????????????
I suggest you take back what u have said about Subarus, and especially P1's as you are obviously talking complete boll**ks. Reliabiliy wise the day when an elise tops the JD power survey is the day ill go and buy one.
12 December 2001, 03:46 PM
#51
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I bloody knew this would happen!
Look Cheese is a tasty snack but no good for writing on Blackboards. Where as Chalk is an excelent writing medium, but tasts crap.
I have owned a Scooby for nearly three years so have my own ideas about reliabillity, and my mate has a Elise Sport 160. There is no way I would beat him round a dry track, but when it rains (as it often does) then my Scooby is a nice place to be. There really isnt much in it in terms of pace. Some conditions favour a P1 aome favour a Lotus.
At the end of the day trying to say one is better than the other is futile. I want an Elise for all the reasons that I dont want a P1 and Vice Versa.
I may just increaqce my pension payments.....
....Or keep the old Scoob and buy a 13k Elise !!!
(The P1 is 23,500 from a Subaru dealer with 7k miles)
Look Cheese is a tasty snack but no good for writing on Blackboards. Where as Chalk is an excelent writing medium, but tasts crap.
I have owned a Scooby for nearly three years so have my own ideas about reliabillity, and my mate has a Elise Sport 160. There is no way I would beat him round a dry track, but when it rains (as it often does) then my Scooby is a nice place to be. There really isnt much in it in terms of pace. Some conditions favour a P1 aome favour a Lotus.
At the end of the day trying to say one is better than the other is futile. I want an Elise for all the reasons that I dont want a P1 and Vice Versa.
I may just increaqce my pension payments.....
....Or keep the old Scoob and buy a 13k Elise !!!
(The P1 is 23,500 from a Subaru dealer with 7k miles)
12 December 2001, 06:43 PM
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This is all too sad - bdrought, what planet are you on?!
I would rather be in a frontal in my P1 than my old Elise. Why? Precisely because of the reason you mentioned - it collapses. It's meant to! Where else does all the impact energy go? The Elise is stiff and resilient - hence it's just the soft occupant who shoots forward and crumples. nice.
Depreciation wise, they're both dreadful - but if you are in the market for either, it's not such an issue. i.e. if it bothers you too much, get a 2nd hand mondeo. I lost £7k on my Elise in 12 months, and expect the P1 to do similar.
Driving wise, this is not comparing like with like. The Elise is great on a dry track (Lotus were not stupid - the majority of the journos were presented with this scenario to rave about it's drivability rather than a wet country road in the dark). The Elise was never designed as an every day motor. It is a pleasure to drive on a daily basis but IMO nowhere near as quick as the P1 on a point to point, in expert or amateur hands.
Is the Elise a joy to own and great fun to drive? Course it is. Is the P1? Course it is. Sort out the tyres and brakes on both (yes, the Elise typically has the dreaded P Zeros on it too!) and these are two terrific motors with very different characteristics and designed for two very different end uses. Forget the nonsense about depreciation etc - one's a track car and the other's a road going rally car.
I await the amusing responses.
Gordo
I would rather be in a frontal in my P1 than my old Elise. Why? Precisely because of the reason you mentioned - it collapses. It's meant to! Where else does all the impact energy go? The Elise is stiff and resilient - hence it's just the soft occupant who shoots forward and crumples. nice.
Depreciation wise, they're both dreadful - but if you are in the market for either, it's not such an issue. i.e. if it bothers you too much, get a 2nd hand mondeo. I lost £7k on my Elise in 12 months, and expect the P1 to do similar.
Driving wise, this is not comparing like with like. The Elise is great on a dry track (Lotus were not stupid - the majority of the journos were presented with this scenario to rave about it's drivability rather than a wet country road in the dark). The Elise was never designed as an every day motor. It is a pleasure to drive on a daily basis but IMO nowhere near as quick as the P1 on a point to point, in expert or amateur hands.
Is the Elise a joy to own and great fun to drive? Course it is. Is the P1? Course it is. Sort out the tyres and brakes on both (yes, the Elise typically has the dreaded P Zeros on it too!) and these are two terrific motors with very different characteristics and designed for two very different end uses. Forget the nonsense about depreciation etc - one's a track car and the other's a road going rally car.
I await the amusing responses.
Gordo
12 December 2001, 07:38 PM
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The trouble with any turbocharged engine is that it's childishly simple to get more power out of it by upping the boost a little, and that's what a lot of people do. Hence the melted pistons. why the hell the impreza Turbo was only designed as a 2-litre turbo is beyond me, if they wanted to make something really special why not go for a bit more displacement and less boost?
Turbocharging aside, the Elise is so simple in its construction that I would be very surprised if anything went wrong with them on anything like a regular basis. The power unit itself is very much proven technology and quite underworked considering the weight of the rest of the car, and the "feel" of it is precisely as per the design brief - extremely direct. Although I've only driven one briefly it was immediately apparent that to get any more informational feedback about the road surface I'd need to run samples of it through a gas chromatograph.
They are two very different cars, but I'd choose the Elise because it's not as compromised as the P1. the P1 is still derived from a regular saloon car, it still has to put up with a high centre of gravity, loads of excess fat and seating for five. The Elise is purely for driving, not going shopping in or ferrying kids around (well, maybe one - screaming, crying or just yelling "faster! faster!")
Turbocharging aside, the Elise is so simple in its construction that I would be very surprised if anything went wrong with them on anything like a regular basis. The power unit itself is very much proven technology and quite underworked considering the weight of the rest of the car, and the "feel" of it is precisely as per the design brief - extremely direct. Although I've only driven one briefly it was immediately apparent that to get any more informational feedback about the road surface I'd need to run samples of it through a gas chromatograph.
They are two very different cars, but I'd choose the Elise because it's not as compromised as the P1. the P1 is still derived from a regular saloon car, it still has to put up with a high centre of gravity, loads of excess fat and seating for five. The Elise is purely for driving, not going shopping in or ferrying kids around (well, maybe one - screaming, crying or just yelling "faster! faster!")
12 December 2001, 08:58 PM
#54
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Oooooooooooo..k. Not quite £15K, but I've seen P1s trade hands for just under £20K. I got my sums slightly off....shoot me.
Agree with everything you say about chalk and cheese, no arguements there at all.
Apart from that... dont see why some of you are getting defensive. No reason too...Scoobies are great. Dont rock my world though.
Just get annoyed at the uninformed arrogant cowards who say the Elise is x,y and z, and Scoobies are all conquering.
Bri
(besides...Scoobies can rust )
Agree with everything you say about chalk and cheese, no arguements there at all.
Apart from that... dont see why some of you are getting defensive. No reason too...Scoobies are great. Dont rock my world though.
Just get annoyed at the uninformed arrogant cowards who say the Elise is x,y and z, and Scoobies are all conquering.
Bri
(besides...Scoobies can rust
)
12 December 2001, 09:59 PM
#55
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Quick point RE Reliabillity
A Scooby: The Guys at powerstation know me very well and a have a pile of bills for the car that would terrify a potential Scooby owner (ok its done miles but Scoobies aint cheap even for regualr stuff)
B: Before the Lotus owners pretend that its just the same to service as a Rover 200 then why did my Mate with an Elise get presented with a time card by the service chaps at Lotus, becuase he spends almost as much time there as they do!
They are noth fantastic so I may just get one of each!
A Scooby: The Guys at powerstation know me very well and a have a pile of bills for the car that would terrify a potential Scooby owner (ok its done miles but Scoobies aint cheap even for regualr stuff)
B: Before the Lotus owners pretend that its just the same to service as a Rover 200 then why did my Mate with an Elise get presented with a time card by the service chaps at Lotus, becuase he spends almost as much time there as they do!
They are noth fantastic so I may just get one of each!
12 December 2001, 11:08 PM
#56
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Regarding reliability, isn't a lot of this down to luck ? My old man bought a new Jag the other day and within a month the sunroof got stuck !
I know plenty of elise owners who have had trouble free motoring (esp. the engine as pointed out earlier) and I'm sure the same goes for many scoob owners. Also, there are plenty of people who have had nightmares with both cars. My 340r had to have a new engine in it but who gives a flyin **** ! Its all under warranty and when the driving experience is that good you just go with it. You buy your dream motor you just take your chances, whether its a Hillman imp with 120K on the clock or a spanking new M3.
I've heard horror stories about EVOs and scoobs & TVR & Lotus & Ferrari & even Boxters & just about every other car. WHen everything goes **** up you always hear about it but when a car's a dream its less often expressed and shouted about at every BBS on the net. For what its worth I've owned 4 loti in years gone by and only the 340r has given me significant problems but as I say, its all been under warranty - its specialised high-maintenance vehicle and I don't expect it to be akin to BMW ownership.
elise & P1 - both awesome cars but very different and are good at different things so it depends what you want from the car. If its ultimate driver buzz & involvement (in dry conditions) then the elise wins no question. Also, still reckon an EVO beats a P1 in this respect but wish the EVO had engine-character/noise/gearing of the P1.
"I'd need to run samples of it through a gas chromatograph."
LOL Turbo Six - nicely put ;-)
I know plenty of elise owners who have had trouble free motoring (esp. the engine as pointed out earlier) and I'm sure the same goes for many scoob owners. Also, there are plenty of people who have had nightmares with both cars. My 340r had to have a new engine in it but who gives a flyin **** ! Its all under warranty and when the driving experience is that good you just go with it. You buy your dream motor you just take your chances, whether its a Hillman imp with 120K on the clock or a spanking new M3.
I've heard horror stories about EVOs and scoobs & TVR & Lotus & Ferrari & even Boxters & just about every other car. WHen everything goes **** up you always hear about it but when a car's a dream its less often expressed and shouted about at every BBS on the net. For what its worth I've owned 4 loti in years gone by and only the 340r has given me significant problems but as I say, its all been under warranty - its specialised high-maintenance vehicle and I don't expect it to be akin to BMW ownership.
elise & P1 - both awesome cars but very different and are good at different things so it depends what you want from the car. If its ultimate driver buzz & involvement (in dry conditions) then the elise wins no question. Also, still reckon an EVO beats a P1 in this respect but wish the EVO had engine-character/noise/gearing of the P1.
"I'd need to run samples of it through a gas chromatograph."
LOL Turbo Six - nicely put ;-)
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