Powerstation shootout results
13 November 2000, 09:35 PM
#32
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Hi All,
There seems to bit a bit of confussion here with regards to the method being used for the actual power run.
The actual method used was to first run a driving trial. This means running the car very quickly up into 4th gear and then holding at 3000rpm to get an rpm match between the equipment.
Then the actual run was taking place where the rollers have load added and the car is driven so it just gets into 4th gear at below 1500rpm. Once into 4th the throttle is fully applied and let to run until high revs. The clutch is then depressed and the car runs down back to stop. Power calcuation is made from this run.
I think why there is confusion is that people are milling about, chatting etc. Some people see the driving trial and assume that is the run when in fact it is the setup run.
Shaun had hit the drivetrain losses nail on the head. Cossie running gear is so much bigger/heavier etc. than the Scooby and hence the losses are higher. The GT4 really suffers too from the over-enginnered transmission with regards to power at wheels losses. The Scooby is good at getting much of the power it produces to its wheels. Fact. It could be argued that the Scooby suffers from more gearbox/diff problems because of this but it is all swings/roundabouts.
There also seems to be alot of worry about the fact that figures vary so much or seem to be inconsistant. This isn't only for Scoobies by the way.
Obviously my area of interest is the GT4 and I quite often see a 50bhp difference between cars of the same model/year. Many of the lower runners find their problems after a while, be it mis-gapped spark plugs, intake problems, turbo problems, duff fuel, ignition break downs, wrong gearbox fluids, wrong diff fluids, low tyre pressures, poor intake cooling, poor engine cooling, over sensitive knock sensor, timing drifted, a/c compressor clutch failure (and hence on), poor alignment of suspension setup, wrong flavour air freshner etc. Or nine times out of ten a combination of the above (and a whole lot more).
When I bought my GT4 it was about 20bhp from stock figures. I changed the plugs/leads, got the timing setup (critical) and got back to stock. Fairly easy and cheap jobs and I had gained 20bhp (that I had lost). As the quoted stock figures climb the more you have to loose from even simple problems.
Is it not conceivable that all these problems and more could be affecting Subarus too ?
The number of people I have heard (not just with Scoobies and not just at PS) who say "These figures cannot be right, must be a problem with the RR". But at the same time stand there as the run is being done with their eyes stinging because it is massively over-fueling etc, well I've lost count.
Don't want to get into a war, but maybe those who 'seem' to have low figures, may like to think that just possibily, there may be something not quite right about their cars ? Could it be that it just needs a good looking at by their dealer, or maybe they have bought the wrong exhaust system or they should even take a look at their tyre pressures etc.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers
Ian
There seems to bit a bit of confussion here with regards to the method being used for the actual power run.
The actual method used was to first run a driving trial. This means running the car very quickly up into 4th gear and then holding at 3000rpm to get an rpm match between the equipment.
Then the actual run was taking place where the rollers have load added and the car is driven so it just gets into 4th gear at below 1500rpm. Once into 4th the throttle is fully applied and let to run until high revs. The clutch is then depressed and the car runs down back to stop. Power calcuation is made from this run.
I think why there is confusion is that people are milling about, chatting etc. Some people see the driving trial and assume that is the run when in fact it is the setup run.
Shaun had hit the drivetrain losses nail on the head. Cossie running gear is so much bigger/heavier etc. than the Scooby and hence the losses are higher. The GT4 really suffers too from the over-enginnered transmission with regards to power at wheels losses. The Scooby is good at getting much of the power it produces to its wheels. Fact. It could be argued that the Scooby suffers from more gearbox/diff problems because of this but it is all swings/roundabouts.
There also seems to be alot of worry about the fact that figures vary so much or seem to be inconsistant. This isn't only for Scoobies by the way.
Obviously my area of interest is the GT4 and I quite often see a 50bhp difference between cars of the same model/year. Many of the lower runners find their problems after a while, be it mis-gapped spark plugs, intake problems, turbo problems, duff fuel, ignition break downs, wrong gearbox fluids, wrong diff fluids, low tyre pressures, poor intake cooling, poor engine cooling, over sensitive knock sensor, timing drifted, a/c compressor clutch failure (and hence on), poor alignment of suspension setup, wrong flavour air freshner etc. Or nine times out of ten a combination of the above (and a whole lot more).
When I bought my GT4 it was about 20bhp from stock figures. I changed the plugs/leads, got the timing setup (critical) and got back to stock. Fairly easy and cheap jobs and I had gained 20bhp (that I had lost). As the quoted stock figures climb the more you have to loose from even simple problems.
Is it not conceivable that all these problems and more could be affecting Subarus too ?
The number of people I have heard (not just with Scoobies and not just at PS) who say "These figures cannot be right, must be a problem with the RR". But at the same time stand there as the run is being done with their eyes stinging because it is massively over-fueling etc, well I've lost count.
Don't want to get into a war, but maybe those who 'seem' to have low figures, may like to think that just possibily, there may be something not quite right about their cars ? Could it be that it just needs a good looking at by their dealer, or maybe they have bought the wrong exhaust system or they should even take a look at their tyre pressures etc.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers
Ian
13 November 2000, 09:40 PM
#33
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To thicken the plot a bit ... 
I got 265 BHP/252 lb/ft on PS rollers, but only ... 251 BHP on our Belgian rolling road (but 260 lb/ft) (RR is calibrated every month, and used by Belgian courts of law.)
Maybe you should all come over to Eeklo...
Of course RR numbers are only good for bar talks, but still
I got 265 BHP/252 lb/ft on PS rollers, but only ... 251 BHP on our Belgian rolling road (but 260 lb/ft)
(RR is calibrated every month, and used by Belgian courts of law.)Maybe you should all come over to Eeklo...
Of course RR numbers are only good for bar talks, but still
13 November 2000, 09:51 PM
#34
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Ian.
Thanks for your comments, but it's still no clearer.
I know the difference between the driving trial and the power run, and I watched the way several cars, including my own, were run.
I asked Rich why he didn't apply full throttle in fourth like other dyno's, and he answered that he didn't need to as the rollers applied the load. Did I not hear correctly then? Why does load need to be applied at all to the rollers on a power run, and how is it applied?
Also, the point about tyre pressures, exhausts, etc, would only be valid if the same car performed poorly at more than one rolling road. Mine for one doesn't.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 13 November 2000).]
Thanks for your comments, but it's still no clearer.
I know the difference between the driving trial and the power run, and I watched the way several cars, including my own, were run.
I asked Rich why he didn't apply full throttle in fourth like other dyno's, and he answered that he didn't need to as the rollers applied the load. Did I not hear correctly then? Why does load need to be applied at all to the rollers on a power run, and how is it applied?
Also, the point about tyre pressures, exhausts, etc, would only be valid if the same car performed poorly at more than one rolling road. Mine for one doesn't.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 13 November 2000).]
13 November 2000, 10:05 PM
#36
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Stef,
Right, you have me confused now
I must admit I wasn't paying much attention on Saturday.
Maybe a call to PS in the morning to clear this up once and for all ? I would suggest you do it as I am known to be biased.
About exhausts etc. If you have run the same setup at other rolling roads etc. and had massively different results, then no, I cannot explain it (other than the differences between these figures anyway). Those comments were not aimed at you and we all know you never stop fiddling with CK1 and hence would expect all the normal reasons for problems to be invalid
Anyway, might be worth a call to clear this all up before further speculation ensues ?
Cheers
Ian
Right, you have me confused now
I must admit I wasn't paying much attention on Saturday.Maybe a call to PS in the morning to clear this up once and for all ? I would suggest you do it as I am known to be biased.
About exhausts etc. If you have run the same setup at other rolling roads etc. and had massively different results, then no, I cannot explain it (other than the differences between these figures anyway). Those comments were not aimed at you and we all know you never stop fiddling with CK1 and hence would expect all the normal reasons for problems to be invalid
Anyway, might be worth a call to clear this all up before further speculation ensues ?
Cheers
Ian
13 November 2000, 10:49 PM
#37
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Ian.
As I said, I asked Rich at the time to explain and he did. I've posted what he said, unless I misheard him.
Whilst I do a lot of fiddling with my car, it is mainly of the handling kind, and not anything that would affect my power figures to any extent.
My only power mods are a full catless exhaust, an induction kit and now a Prodrive ecu.
I ran my car at PTS earlier in the year before the ecu swap, and got 235bhp and 236lb/ft, the most accurate figures from any rollers in my opinion based on the mods I'd made and the manufacturers figures (208bhp + exhaust + filter = 235bhp). Standard Scoobs here have got near manufacturer figures.
On my last run at PTS after fitting the ecu I got 272bhp and 306lb/ft, so there was soemthing clearly not right. The only difference with the car besides the ecu was the fact I was running on 17's which increased my losses from 69bhp to 95bhp. PTS are investigating the possible causes of the discrepancy with the manufacturers of their dyno.
A week later, I take my car to PS and only get 235bhp and 230lb/ft. My figures there with the Superchip were higher, yet my car was nowhere near as quick as it is now.
Whilst it is acknowledged that figures can vary hugely from dyno to dyno, if standard cars get similar figures shouldn't equally modded cars do the same? Standard cars at PE for example get higher figures than anywhere else, and as a result so do modded cars (take my 267bhp and 235lb/ft for example BEFORE Prodrive ecu!!
).
It is clear that no dyno can consitently give completely accurate figures, but then most of us only use dyno's for comparitive purposes anyhow, rather than getting the exact power figures for our car. I just want the figures everywhere to add up!
Perhaps we should all just meet up and use one of those G-Tech things in the future?
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 14 November 2000).]
As I said, I asked Rich at the time to explain and he did. I've posted what he said, unless I misheard him.
Whilst I do a lot of fiddling with my car, it is mainly of the handling kind, and not anything that would affect my power figures to any extent.
My only power mods are a full catless exhaust, an induction kit and now a Prodrive ecu.
I ran my car at PTS earlier in the year before the ecu swap, and got 235bhp and 236lb/ft, the most accurate figures from any rollers in my opinion based on the mods I'd made and the manufacturers figures (208bhp + exhaust + filter = 235bhp). Standard Scoobs here have got near manufacturer figures.
On my last run at PTS after fitting the ecu I got 272bhp and 306lb/ft, so there was soemthing clearly not right. The only difference with the car besides the ecu was the fact I was running on 17's which increased my losses from 69bhp to 95bhp. PTS are investigating the possible causes of the discrepancy with the manufacturers of their dyno.
A week later, I take my car to PS and only get 235bhp and 230lb/ft. My figures there with the Superchip were higher, yet my car was nowhere near as quick as it is now.
Whilst it is acknowledged that figures can vary hugely from dyno to dyno, if standard cars get similar figures shouldn't equally modded cars do the same? Standard cars at PE for example get higher figures than anywhere else, and as a result so do modded cars (take my 267bhp and 235lb/ft for example BEFORE Prodrive ecu!!
).It is clear that no dyno can consitently give completely accurate figures, but then most of us only use dyno's for comparitive purposes anyhow, rather than getting the exact power figures for our car. I just want the figures everywhere to add up!
Perhaps we should all just meet up and use one of those G-Tech things in the future?
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 14 November 2000).]
13 November 2000, 11:29 PM
#38
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Hi Stef,
From what you say above, there could still be a problem with your setup, with the dyno at PS, with the dyno at PTS etc. I.e. still not conclusive.
As to what Rich said on the day, I couldn't comment. You would have to clear that up with him.
What is important is that with the mods you have done, you feel you are seeing an improvement and that your enjoyment of the car has increased. And from your track time yesterday, it didn't look to shabby
Something people forget is that even if the peak torque figure is lower than another car, but their torque curve is flatter/smoother, it can still be much quicker. I know I would rather have 250 lb/ft of torque from 3000 - 6000rpm than to have 300 lb/ft but only at 6000rpm. Mind you that is my view.
Your suggestion about the G-Tech thing is not at all a bad idea. After the VFM day, I considered doing something like this, i.e. a 'real' test.
Maybe we should just do a 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap time, 100-0, handling ability tests etc. Actually make it a bit scientific if necessary but still fun at the same time.
This would be a real test, rather than just peak power/torque figures, in 4th gear on a rolling road. And it would include the drivers ability too
As SIDC Entertainment Manager (), maybe this is something to think about/to do over the winter months ?
Cheers
Ian
From what you say above, there could still be a problem with your setup, with the dyno at PS, with the dyno at PTS etc. I.e. still not conclusive.
As to what Rich said on the day, I couldn't comment. You would have to clear that up with him.
What is important is that with the mods you have done, you feel you are seeing an improvement and that your enjoyment of the car has increased. And from your track time yesterday, it didn't look to shabby
Something people forget is that even if the peak torque figure is lower than another car, but their torque curve is flatter/smoother, it can still be much quicker. I know I would rather have 250 lb/ft of torque from 3000 - 6000rpm than to have 300 lb/ft but only at 6000rpm. Mind you that is my view.
Your suggestion about the G-Tech thing is not at all a bad idea. After the VFM day, I considered doing something like this, i.e. a 'real' test.
Maybe we should just do a 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap time, 100-0, handling ability tests etc. Actually make it a bit scientific if necessary but still fun at the same time.
This would be a real test, rather than just peak power/torque figures, in 4th gear on a rolling road. And it would include the drivers ability too
As SIDC Entertainment Manager (
), maybe this is something to think about/to do over the winter months ?Cheers
Ian
13 November 2000, 11:58 PM
#39
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Mike!
The reason for no Skyline comes down to no money as another house has been bought Why not sell your Skip and re-invest the money in something worthwile The you can buy something that won't blow up on you LOL
Stef!
Keep the bollox coming mate, only makes you look like a *****. I think I won the kitty on the bet for you going off yesterday LOL, I don't know
these double glazing salemen hey??
Harj.... LOL
The reason for no Skyline comes down to no money as another house has been bought
Why not sell your Skip and re-invest the money in something worthwile The you can buy something that won't blow up on you LOLStef!
Keep the bollox coming mate, only makes you look like a *****. I think I won the kitty on the bet for you going off yesterday LOL, I don't know
these double glazing salemen hey?? Harj....
LOL
14 November 2000, 08:13 AM
#40
Harj,
Find me something that does 60 to 100 quicker than 3.59s and 100 to 150 in 8.99s and I will buy it...
In the meantime, as the "skip" will out accelerate a Fireblade in these increments, I think I'll keep it...
Me thinks you are more full of poo than Stef, at least he is consistant - one minute you're a Scooby hater - the next you think they are the best thing since sliced bread...
LOL
Mike R
Find me something that does 60 to 100 quicker than 3.59s and 100 to 150 in 8.99s and I will buy it...
In the meantime, as the "skip" will out accelerate a Fireblade in these increments, I think I'll keep it...
Me thinks you are more full of poo than Stef, at least he is consistant - one minute you're a Scooby hater - the next you think they are the best thing since sliced bread...
LOL
Mike R
14 November 2000, 08:30 AM
#41
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I am the owner of the RB5 which breathing mods which put out 6 bhp more than a Prodrive car but 3 ft less of torque. This was consistent with another car with exactly the same exhaust system (no cats). I would say that this would be a fairly accurate comparison. I don't know whether there is a problem with accuracy of the rollers but they seem consistent.
What I do know is that the black Escort Cosworth was seriously quick on the way back!
What I do know is that the black Escort Cosworth was seriously quick on the way back!
14 November 2000, 09:32 AM
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Dudes:
You lot need to chill out a bit. No way am I petty enough to try and fiddle figures on our rollers. Most rolling roads in the UK read high to aid customer satisfaction. Superchips powerplot system (which many rolling roads use) increases the power line by a percentage by pressing one of the 'f' keys.
Our rolling road has recently been calibrated by Maha UK and is acurate as far as I know (the certificate was on the front of the machine). All the runs were carried out in exactly the same fashion.
Stef: You and I must have got our wires crossed. All the powert runs were carried out with the throttle fully depressed from 40mph onward.
Mike Rainex: LOL I have data logged Will Gollops LOL 6R4 accelerating LOL from 100 - 140mph in 4 LOL seconds (with Ian LOL Watkins inside) LOL Get a Rover LOL LOL LOL
I am going to regret this.
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichiB (edited 14 November 2000).]
You lot need to chill out a bit. No way am I petty enough to try and fiddle figures on our rollers. Most rolling roads in the UK read high to aid customer satisfaction. Superchips powerplot system (which many rolling roads use) increases the power line by a percentage by pressing one of the 'f' keys.
Our rolling road has recently been calibrated by Maha UK and is acurate as far as I know (the certificate was on the front of the machine). All the runs were carried out in exactly the same fashion.
Stef: You and I must have got our wires crossed. All the powert runs were carried out with the throttle fully depressed from 40mph onward.
Mike Rainex: LOL I have data logged Will Gollops LOL 6R4 accelerating LOL from 100 - 140mph in 4 LOL seconds (with Ian LOL Watkins inside) LOL Get a Rover LOL LOL LOL
I am going to regret this.
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichiB (edited 14 November 2000).]
14 November 2000, 10:26 AM
#46
Rich,
But can the "Metro" carry five people in comfort and do 180mph (and can it even better 140mph on the current gearing)?
I'm sure I could get my time down if I had as shorter gearing and similar traction to the 6R4.. Currently 0-60 in 2.5s is something I can only imagine though...
LOL
Mike R
PS. Don't forget mine is a fully kitted out road car with full interior weighing in at 1275Kg!
But can the "Metro" carry five people in comfort and do 180mph (and can it even better 140mph on the current gearing
)?I'm sure I could get my time down if I had as shorter gearing and similar traction to the 6R4..
Currently 0-60 in 2.5s is something I can only imagine though... LOL
Mike R
PS. Don't forget mine is a fully kitted out road car with full interior weighing in at 1275Kg!
14 November 2000, 10:34 AM
#47
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Just looking at the results for Floyd Merrisons MY00 and it states that the Power at the wheels is 101BHP. The figures also state that this car has 201BHP at the flywheel which implies that 100BHP is being lost through the transmission!
Next look at the figures for the Peugeot 306 XSi, 133BHP at the flywheel but 100BHP at the wheels. These figures imply that both cars have near identical power at the wheels. This is something I am finding very difficult to get my head round!!
So does this mean that all MY00 cars are down on power compared to previous models?? The reason I ask is that I am sure my car doesn't feel as quick as the MY98 I test drove.
Next look at the figures for the Peugeot 306 XSi, 133BHP at the flywheel but 100BHP at the wheels. These figures imply that both cars have near identical power at the wheels. This is something I am finding very difficult to get my head round!!
So does this mean that all MY00 cars are down on power compared to previous models?? The reason I ask is that I am sure my car doesn't feel as quick as the MY98 I test drove.
14 November 2000, 10:43 AM
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Rainbow Man!
You can call me inpartial RWD Cossies don't do it for me especially old rusty skips
Stef (Technical) that'l be the day LOL, im one of the least technical blokes on this board but I can get a message across ie you talking crap again LOL
Harj....
You can call me inpartial
RWD Cossies don't do it for me especially old rusty skips Stef (Technical)
that'l be the day LOL, im one of the least technical blokes on this board but I can get a message across ie you talking crap again LOL Harj....
14 November 2000, 10:46 AM
#49
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Difference's between the fly and the wheels can come from a number of things. Wheel alignment, transmission fluid - even the tyres pressure. I need to get myself some Silkolene tranny fluid and my alignment done soon!
Chuck
Chuck
14 November 2000, 11:26 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Julian Rowland:
<B>I am the owner of the RB5 which breathing mods which put out 6 bhp more than a Prodrive car but 3 ft less of torque. This was consistent with another car with exactly the same exhaust system (no cats). I would say that this would be a fairly accurate comparison. I don't know whether there is a problem with accuracy of the rollers but they seem consistent.
[/quote]
My car was the one that gave similar results to Julian's.
Julian's - 237bhp/222lb/ft
My car - 236bhp/219lb/ft
Both our cars have the same type of exhaust, SS backbox & downpipe, and Mangex mid-section with resonator.
The only real differences is that, I have a RamPod air inductor & use NORMAL unleaded and Julian has an ITG & uses SUPER unleaded.
We both attained losses in the region of 90-odd bhp (Mine 98BHP!!!!)
All I can conclude is that similarly modified cars, showed roughly the same results.
Maybe next time, we try somewhere else! PE????
Thanks Shaun for organising the whole thing. At least you started some more interesting comments on the BBS!!!!
[This message has been edited by Andy Tang (edited 14 November 2000).]
<B>I am the owner of the RB5 which breathing mods which put out 6 bhp more than a Prodrive car but 3 ft less of torque. This was consistent with another car with exactly the same exhaust system (no cats). I would say that this would be a fairly accurate comparison. I don't know whether there is a problem with accuracy of the rollers but they seem consistent.
[/quote]
My car was the one that gave similar results to Julian's.
Julian's - 237bhp/222lb/ft
My car - 236bhp/219lb/ft
Both our cars have the same type of exhaust, SS backbox & downpipe, and Mangex mid-section with resonator.
The only real differences is that, I have a RamPod air inductor & use NORMAL unleaded and Julian has an ITG & uses SUPER unleaded.
We both attained losses in the region of 90-odd bhp (Mine 98BHP!!!!)
All I can conclude is that similarly modified cars, showed roughly the same results.
Maybe next time, we try somewhere else! PE????
Thanks Shaun for organising the whole thing.
At least you started some more interesting comments on the BBS!!!! [This message has been edited by Andy Tang (edited 14 November 2000).]
14 November 2000, 11:54 AM
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Rich.
Thanks for joining us.
I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you were doing any fiddling, but can you explain why and how your rollers are loaded on a power run, as nobody has yet explained.
Why don't don't you just do 'stab' tests like other places?
What's your explanation for the 22B only getting losses of 44bhp, and the Prodrive cars performing so badly?
Julian.
How can you say the figures are consistent when your car gets more power than a Prodrive version of your car which should have poo loads more torque?
Harj.
The only ***** round here is the one you've got jammed up your butt!
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 14 November 2000).]
Thanks for joining us.
I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you were doing any fiddling, but can you explain why and how your rollers are loaded on a power run, as nobody has yet explained.
Why don't don't you just do 'stab' tests like other places?
What's your explanation for the 22B only getting losses of 44bhp, and the Prodrive cars performing so badly?
Julian.
How can you say the figures are consistent when your car gets more power than a Prodrive version of your car which should have poo loads more torque?
Harj.
The only ***** round here is the one you've got jammed up your butt!
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 14 November 2000).]
14 November 2000, 01:46 PM
#52
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JoeyDeacon:
My pug 306 is only front wheel drive and not 4wd. The subarus have to power all 4 wheels so quite a lot of power is lost in the transmission.
Hope that answers your question.
My pug 306 is only front wheel drive and not 4wd. The subarus have to power all 4 wheels so quite a lot of power is lost in the transmission.
Hope that answers your question.
14 November 2000, 01:58 PM
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longun,
I understand that there is obviously more transmission loss with 4 wheel drive compared to front wheel drive but my point was that both cars have near identical power at the wheels. These figures imply that the Peugeot would have similar performance to this Impreza. I can't believe that 100BHP would be lost through the transmission.
[This message has been edited by JoeyDeacon (edited 14 November 2000).]
I understand that there is obviously more transmission loss with 4 wheel drive compared to front wheel drive but my point was that both cars have near identical power at the wheels. These figures imply that the Peugeot would have similar performance to this Impreza. I can't believe that 100BHP would be lost through the transmission.
[This message has been edited by JoeyDeacon (edited 14 November 2000).]
14 November 2000, 02:15 PM
#54
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Ok so the BHP was the same at the wheels can't think how else to explain this. But I bet he had loads more torque than I did. And that he would beat me in a race(on a track of course )
)
14 November 2000, 03:39 PM
#55
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Joeydeacon,
Longun finally got there!!!!
Whilst a 4x4 car WILL lose sh1tloads through the transmission it will gain it in torque......and dont forget thats the power through 4 wheels not 2!!!
Shaun.
Longun finally got there!!!!
Whilst a 4x4 car WILL lose sh1tloads through the transmission it will gain it in torque......and dont forget thats the power through 4 wheels not 2!!!
Shaun.
14 November 2000, 03:51 PM
#56
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OK I don't pretend to be up on these things but lets suppose for example I had a car that produced 300BHP and 300lb/ft at the flywheel. Now due to my rubbish transmission and treacle for oil only 50BHP is actually being transmitted to the wheels which are obviously out of alignment and poorly inflated.
Is this going to still be faster than a car which is 150BHP and 150lb/ft but due to a far superior gearbox is transmitting 100BHP to the wheels??
Maybe I need John Felstead to explain this one to me in laymans terms??
[This message has been edited by JoeyDeacon (edited 14 November 2000).]
Is this going to still be faster than a car which is 150BHP and 150lb/ft but due to a far superior gearbox is transmitting 100BHP to the wheels??
Maybe I need John Felstead to explain this one to me in laymans terms??
[This message has been edited by JoeyDeacon (edited 14 November 2000).]
14 November 2000, 04:19 PM
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Stef
I thought that removal of the cats gave more torque and would account for the gains. Also my car has 27k miles and intercooler hosing and is driven hardish alot of the so maybe the ECU gives a bit more.
The fact another car with the same mods as me gives similar figures just seems consistent.
I really want to have the power of the Black Escort cosworth, sod the figures!
I thought that removal of the cats gave more torque and would account for the gains. Also my car has 27k miles and intercooler hosing and is driven hardish alot of the so maybe the ECU gives a bit more.
The fact another car with the same mods as me gives similar figures just seems consistent.
I really want to have the power of the Black Escort cosworth, sod the figures!
14 November 2000, 07:58 PM
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Julian
Are you talking about the black Escort Cossie on the way home, if so that was Mark Shead in the car that has won pretty much all the Ford shootouts this year. It has 402 bhp and 401lbs/ft, bloody quick for an old dagenham dustbin feels amazing in the car.
Kevin Evo VI
Are you talking about the black Escort Cossie on the way home, if so that was Mark Shead in the car that has won pretty much all the Ford shootouts this year. It has 402 bhp and 401lbs/ft, bloody quick for an old dagenham dustbin
feels amazing in the car.Kevin Evo VI
14 November 2000, 08:00 PM
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Julian
Are you talking about the black Escort Cossie on the way home, if so that was Mark Shead in the car that has won pretty much all the Ford shootouts this year. It has 402 bhp and 401lbs/ft, bloody quick for an old dagenham dustbin feels amazing in the car.
Kevin Evo VI
Are you talking about the black Escort Cossie on the way home, if so that was Mark Shead in the car that has won pretty much all the Ford shootouts this year. It has 402 bhp and 401lbs/ft, bloody quick for an old dagenham dustbin
feels amazing in the car.Kevin Evo VI
