Floyd

iTrader: (9)

AAAARRRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!

A Pug that's got as much PaW as me. PAH!!!!

Hand me my cheque book woman, I'm gonna show'em who's boss.

Angry Floyd.

AndyMc

Bloody hell Scoobs lose upto 100hp through friction in the drive train.That must generate a lot of heat.

To put just how much heat into perspective ,it is equivalent to 74 kilowatts , or around 37 electric fires or 74 microwaves or 50 electric kettles.

The central heating boiler in my house is only 15 kilowatts.

Does the Scoob really lose as much energy in the drivetrain as it takes to heat five houses.I'm amazed the gearbox doesn't turn into a molten blob of aluminium

sounds like a load of bo**ox to me.

Also can anybody remember the thread from a while back which explained why it was impossible to measure the true transmission loss on a rolling road.I will try to find it

Dyno operators claim their software can calculate flywheel power but the truth is that they cannot and the figure they come up with is the software designers or dyno operators best guess.

It would seem as though it would be better to use power at the wheel figures to make a comparision between cars but this is not the case. Simply changing the tyre pressures or changing to a different size of wheel will change these by a sizeable margin which renders them fairly inaccurate.The guestimated flywheel figures will be more accurate than the power at wheel figures.

One last thing which I don't understand.On the dyno page it says that John Felsted's car was run in a different gear to the others which made the power figure lower than it should have been.

If the dyno's really can predict flywheel power accurately the same car should make the same flywheel power regardless of gear or wheel size or tyre pressures etc,the only thing that should change is the drivetrain losses.If this was not the case every car would have to have the same 4th gear ratio and tyre size and they do not.

The fact that this was given as one of the reasons for the low power figure on JohnF's is very strange.Can anyone explain?

Andy

sunilp

Julian, as far as DP Cat removal goes, i have yet to see DP that has shown the felt improvements as a better/higher torque/power curve on the rollers.

longun

AndyMc

About the westfield I missed that bit of the shootout, however I would belive that it was either wheel spinning in 4th on the rollers or was going to leave the rollers if the operator gave it full pig in 4th so test had to be done in 5th..

If I'm wrong (wouldn't suprise me) then someone please correct me!!

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

John's car was wheelspinning in 4th, so they sprayed some "glue" on the rollers and tried it in 5th.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

So would that imply that any car running after John's would have get higher readings!!

That will teach me to run third!!!

Stef

Julian.
You're missing the point. It takes more than the fact that yours and Andy's cars got similar figures to call the rollers consistent. My car had similar mods to yours, and going by manufacturer figures plus the mods we've all made, the figures you got at PS on Saturday and the ones I got at PTS earlier in the year could all be considered to be reasonably accurate.
Since fitting the PPP ecu however, my car has been transformed. It is MUCH quicker and torquier than it was before, no question.
Therefore, this improvement should surely reflect on the rollers? The fact you've got a catless system should not be sufficient to give your car more power than a Prodrived car, and a Prodrived car with a catless system (ie. mine) should be streets ahead.
It wasn't, and I just want to know why.

Sunil.
After fitting my Scorpion dp, my car showed an extra 8bhp atw and there was an improvement in low-end torque on the graph (see

sunilp

Stef, you muppet, you cannot compare runs on different days, have you learnt nothing?.

ARRON BIRD

My cars got more power than yours, na na na na!
Sad ****ers!

MorayMackenzie

Very constructive, Mr Bird.

rsquire

Oh John... Stop making excuses for that little roller skate of yours

Oh Team Meeting in Daventry Saturday night.. ALL team drivers required to attend!!!

Richard

Mmmmm Not sure if I can get the 3 french maids through customs


[This message has been edited by rsquire (edited 16 November 2000).]

johnfelstead

andy, my car had higher transmision losses in 5th than 4th, all other cars used 4th gear for the runs, so my power at the wheels was affected by this.

the main problem with my run however was due to heat soak. Because my car is so low they couldnt set the rollers up as all the other cars, this meant the fans were miles away from my rad and intercooler and turbo, so the intercooler was working very poorly indeed, its already poor at the best of times.

Rich thought that on the road with good airflow i would have been seeing 280BHP, this is still way down on what i should have, if you look at the plot you can see how my torque climbs very quickly as the boost come in, 297lb/ft, but as soon as the charge temp gets hot due to the boost being high and the intercooler being poo, the ignition is being backed off big time.

Once i have a decent charge cooler installed and can get the charge temps down, i expect to be matching shuanes cossie as my spec is virtually identical.

Then my car will be quite an amazing piece of kit, it kicks *** as it is, god knows what it will be like when producing the power it should!!

Stef

Sunil.
Different days yes, but the conditions were EXACTLY the same so .
If you can't compare runs on different days at all what's the point of going back ever again? Some rollers correct the figures anyway so all runs are comparable.
Stop being so pedantic.
Anyway, aren't the schools kicking out soon?

Stef.

Stef

So, anyone got any news as to how and why the rollers are loaded for a power run?

Stef.

Shaun

Stef,

ONE BIG reason why you cant compare your figures at PS last Saturday with previous runs is because the compansator (that takes into comparison the temp and air pressure), was NOT attached (because its busted). That was also the reason why the fueling and boost could not be plotted on the graph.

The big question is HOW MUCH would the figures of been corrected to a DIN BHP........the figures could of even of been less!!!!!!......or more

But considering the running conditions seemed more or less perfect for TURBO cars, I doubt whether they would of been corrected much.

Shaun.

[This message has been edited by Shaun (edited 16 November 2000).]

rsquire

I'm still intrigued as to why my 22B lost only 44hp between BHP and PAW figures but the other 22B lost 81....

Any ideas??

Richard

sunilp

Stef, im intriguied, different days but you stuck your finger in the air and said "EXACTLY THE SAME CONDITIONS"....erm, dont think so!

Shaun

Richard,

Was the diff fully or semi locked????

Shaun.

rsquire

Shaun

I believe that the diff would have been fully locked, as they have been advised to do. When they tried it on another occasion in the open position the car wanted to climb of the RR

Richard

chuckster

Yeah, I want the Squires transmission losses, then I'd be motoring!
I believe you run some nice Silkolene trans fluid, whilst I run Subaru UK approved Vegetable oil .
Also, I've never had my geometry done, so I may be losing some through wheels not pointing straight, whereas you seem to have super geometry Richard. Who knows? Who cares, I'm off to PE for some pub figures
Chuck

Shaun

Not sure whether this is locked or not, but....

If the rear was given the most power (does that mean its locked???????), then wouldnt the transmission loss be much less, as the power only has to drive the rear diff/wheels???

Shaun (I know fug all)

rsquire

Shaun...

Locked means that the all wheels get the power whereas open means more to rear.. Well as I understand it

Chuck... Damn, I suppose this means I have to buy you a beer

Richard

Shaun

Well.....it wasnt that then

Told you I know fug all

Shaun.

harj

I locked it before I got out the car!

Martin Cook

Stef
My car with 57I induction kit and full Scoobsport exhaust ran 338Bhp and 255 pound torque. I was quite happy with this. How did your car get 267Bhp before fittingthe ECU? If the PS rollers are wrong, then I too should get around 260Bhp which I am extremely pleased with.
I honestly don't think any conclusions can be made from a day like that, but I had fun all the same.

Thanks to Shaun for arranging the day, and good to meet you all.

Regards
Martin

harj

Mike,

Matt Oz has the Blade and the inclination to try that 60 - 100 and 100 - 150 test!!So come on Mike, set a date!!

Matt Oz using Harj's ID!!

Matt

harj

Now Rainbow you *****! I am willing to bet everything I own on this little race between you and Mat!!!!!!!!!

Lets see how big your ***** are when your left at the line Bring that heap and lets do it!!

What you wanna bet Mike cus your car ain't worth anything???

Harj....

RVeiga

Hi All

Likewise is was good to meet everyone.

I must say I don't mind the rollers under estimating the figures, but then I got 287bhp

Just makes me that much happier with it.


..R

Stef

Sunil.
You're such a logger!
Haven't you ever heard of a thermometer of barometer?

Martin.
Don't know. My car got 267bhp at PE with just exhaust and filter mods. We'll never know what it would've got with the PPP ecu in....

Stef.

sunilp

Stef, your the logger, a barometer cant account for every single variation which may be present from one run to the next and from one day to another....think about it....."exactly the same conditions" is grossly inaccurate

BTW, i have a TD04 turbo for sale if you want?

S