Denz,

Report him!

C.

 

Buffy,

I like the humour,

cheers,

Sonu

 

banshi

I didn't mean for you to take offence. My apologies if that was the outcome.

I really just meant to point out that this decision has not been arrived at lightly (something you clearly don't seem to dissagree with), and that it is easy to pick fault in it and simply take one of the two sides, which are both incredibly easy to take. Unfortunately, we have to actually take one of them!

-------

Back on topic, the way the officer in question acted was dreadful. Maybe his number (or whatever they have) would have been a good thing to publish..

not sure on the legalities of this though

Best regards

Simon

 

Denz

If you do decide to report him (I hope you do) I'd be interested in knowing how it goes.

 

It's an interesting problem this. A friend of mine was driving his kit car down a back road in Yorkshire, he overtook a live of 3 cars on a straight road and pulled in. Granted he was going a bit quick, but he wasn't doing more than 90mph, and the road is wide and clear.

He gets home, 1/2hr later 2 Policemen turn up and he is accused of dangerous driving. One of the cars he overtook was an offduty inspector, who got his plate and reported him.

Of course he denied it, it was his word against the Inspectors. It eventually went to court and he was banner for a year.....the whole thing was a complete stitch up. E.g. the Inspector said he was wearing a blue coat and a baseball hat, in fact he was wearing a brown sheepskin flying jacket and no hat (they keep blowing off).

I am sure there were other details, but the point is....how can someone be proscecuted on the word of one off duty policeman, given there was no other complaints etc etc.?

What is the law about in these types of cases ????

Jamie

 

Come on guys, don't yopu already have enough info?
How many Alfa 156's with full body-kits and white wheels are there in Harlow?

Stef.

 

Jamie,

Section 2(a)(1)(a) Road Traffic Act 1988 states:
<I>...a person is to be regarded as driving dangerously if:
a)the way he/she drives falls far below what be expected of a competent and careful driver, and
b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.</I>

The police officer in this case (with quite a few years experience to be at the rank of Inspector) would be regarded as an expert witness whether he witnessed the offence whilst on or off duty.

[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 20 November 2000).]

 

Stu

Any chance of putting the whole RTA (+ amendments ) on the BBS with a search engine???

Just an idea...

 

If I start typing now it should be finished by the time I retire!!

 

Sunil,

I can't be bothered anymore... I have more interesting stuff to do than argue with other people's accountants. How is your little car these days, anyway? enjoying the vf22? Must be nice, having such a small turbo, I envy your lack of turbo lag.

Moray

 

My recent experiences with the Essex plod would lead me to side with Denz; the guy was probably being a complete tosser. I don't agree with the decision to withhold the number plate, do the Old Bill want to deter people from speeding, breaking the law etc? If they do then why are they using unmarked Alfa's or for that matter any unmarked vehicle? If they're using them for special ops why are motorists being pulled by them?

Mike

 

Ok what if some granny is sitting at a bus stop and you change up as ye go past and the induction kit and dump valve make all sortsa noise and she reports you to the police sayin some lunatic went past her at a 100+ in what must have been a rally car? When in fact you may have been doing nothing wrong but it shows what can happen.

 

Kevin - I'm sure her cataracts would prevent her from getting your numberplate.

 

I'll recall a tale which happened a few months back. Two of my sports car owning friends were driving home together on a quiet country road at night. Conditions were good (dry, good visibility - but dark, no leaves on road etc.)

They came across of group of cars driving well within the national speed limit, varying between 30 and 50mph (but exceeding the speed limit through villages apparently!). After a few miles, there was a bit of a straight, and the driver in front can see the road is clear, indicates, pulls out and passes all the cars in the line, closely followed by the second car. They did use the full rev limit on their cars, but didn't need to go more than about 65mph - 70mph to complete the maneouver, and then reverted back to the 60mph speed limit. Shortly afterwards they wen't through a village, and were caught by the following group of cars again (as they ignored the speed limit in the built up area).

Shortly afterwards, both cars were pulled over by a traffic police car, and told that there had been a complaint about two lunatics racing each other on dangerous roads. it seems that the driver of one of the cars they passed called 999 on his mobile phone to report the complaint, convinced that the two cars were going to crash and kill someone. Nothing could have been further from the truth, as it was little more than a leisurely drive home. After a short discussion with the police officer (usual lecture about driving responsibly, tractors, horses etc) they were waved away.

Anyway, the police officer was very good about it all, but said they always followed up reports of dangerous driving as a matter of urgency. He accepted their report that they weren't speeding, racing or driving dangerously, but said that it may look completely different to some other road users, especially if the cars are fitted with "sporty" exhaust systems, which can magnify the impression of speed.

Given that more than 60% of the aduly population now own a mobile phone, it's a potential "problem" that we should all be aware of!

 

A good friend of mine (and his girlfriend) were convicted of dangerous driving because he was - according to 2 police officers - "racing on the highway". Each got 10 points and a fine. Quite how a Sirocco GTi can be raced by an 1100 Allegro is beyond me. The 2 officers had earlier been annoyed by a passenger in the front seat of my mates car making V signs at them. They apparently fabricated the racing on the highway charge in retaliation. Despite the 8 people in the cars testifying that no race ever happened, the courts believed these 2 officers. I'm sure 99.999% of the time, officers are honest. But, if one bad apple decides to lie in court, there isn't a great deal you can do. I'm just glad that incidents like these are rare.

As for the attitude of that officer at your work place, he should experience some sort of disciplinary action. He is bringing his police force into disrepute. I had similar treatment from a policeman a few years ago (when a passenger), and I regret not pursuing a complaint. In contrast, I got very fair treatment from some officers investigating a car accident that I had (my fault) with the pregnant wife of one of their officers. This is the level of professionalism I have come to expect from policemen, as I suspect do most people. Hence the huge disappointment when either a bad policeman (or a good one having a bad day) ruins it for the rest of his colleagues.

Jerome.

 

Wow, this kicked off a bit while I was away!

Ok, Webster, I can see your point entirely and can now understand why you took the action you did. I have to say I'm not totally convinced by the "covert operation" bit but I think in your situation I would do the same thing.

Thing is, anybody who lives in any town could tell you at least one of the local unmarked cars so to suggest that professional thieves wouldn't be able to find this out easily is, at best, optimistic. Professional thieves are exactly that - they take time to plan things properly and finding unmarked car reg numbers wouldn't be difficult. They could always just walk past the police yard...

Don't get me wrong, I understand and accept the reasons for editing the post but I still feel that the police can not get away with trying to scare individuals (ie the BBS "owner") into not doing anything which they don't like. Having read the thread further, the way in which this officer acted seems completely outrageous and it's a shame that the police would be keen to prosecute a BBS for disclosing reg numbers, but not use that same medium to weed out officers who seem to be desperately in need of some inter-personal skills.

(I'm still not having a pop at you or Stuart H by the way )

 

Stuart,

thanks for that....I never did understand it really. It still sounds like he was stiched up. Because how many people do actually report people for bad driving and then pursue it until conviction?

But he was caught, and I suppose there is a warning to us all!!

Jamie

 

Stuart

If a normal person reported a bad driver would it be taken seriously by the police? I mean it will probably just come down to one person's word against the other's and with neither being an expert witness, would it just not be viable to prosecute?

 

Where there is evidence that an offence has been committed the police prepare a file which is then forwarded to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

It is the CPS who make the decision what action to take (i.e NFA, Caution, Court etc) <B>NOT</B> the police.

Personally speaking, if it's only one persons' word against the other I tend to advise people against prosecution, however I will happily put a file together (provided I am satisfied in my own mind) should they wish to pursue the complaint. If the CPS then decide its NFA that is beyond my control.

Allegations of dangerous driving are always taken <I>extremely</I> seriously.

[This message has been edited by Stuart H (edited 21 November 2000).]

 

Hi Richard

Firstly, IMHO it was the individual that was at fault here, rather than the police in general...

also, the decision has not been based on any potential litigation or bullying, genuinely just common sense, and the decision that there are reasons for keeping them on here and reasons for taking them off, when you analyse the list, you see that the reasons for taking them off are more fundamental and serious reasons (no matter how unlikely).

I promise scoobynet has not been bullied into this in any way. When Stuart and I discussed it, we were not discussing it as Police vs Scoobynet, we were just two moderators discussing a subject. It just so happened that one of the moderators had a deep insight into lots of things that we don't tend to think about.

I don't think we have really lost anything by not publishing these reg numbers... so it's just not worth keeping them

Best regards

Simon

 

Agreed, it was the individual at fault.

Maybe I'm a bit too highly strung but I just get concerned when I read about large organisations abusing their position against Joe Public.

Anyway, like I said, having read all the replies it seems that it was certainly the right thing to do and I salute you for it, sir!

Cool!

 

Thanks for the info Stuart.

I've been tempted to ring the police on a number of occasions over the years, but have never done so as I have never had much else apart from my word on what I saw and a numberplate.

 

slighty off topic,
but one of last nights moterway type programs had an interesting bit, moterway patrol car see's a car harring(!) other drivers tailgating etc. so pull him over, guess what he was an off duty copper, but not only that he was a police driving instructor, the two motorway coppers could'nt believe it.

ray t

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stef:
<B>Come on guys, don't yopu already have enough info?
How many Alfa 156's with full body-kits and white wheels are there in Harlow?

Stef.[/quote]

Stef
You ain't been to Harlow lately, have you M8??

AWD
Why would her piles affect her eyesight???

 

Moray, wrong again, i have a VF23, not a VF22!.....even smaller!.....

One day i might be able to afford a real car like yours?

Hows your toy watch

 

Sunlip
I've heard yours is a small one.....