cossie01

It says in there, I am fitting a VF35 turbo from an 02 STi

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

DOH!

Not a good day for me

Tony

Scoobyfirsttime

I would suggest that you do get yourself an STI TMIC or similar Cossie01, making your car more powerful means making it work harder, which in turn generates more heat.....

andythejock01wrx

Dpends what you're after really Tony. A TD04 Hybrid will give less power than a VF35, but lower spool up.What you lose at the top end you gain at the bottom end. Makes a very nice car to drive with a very usable wide spread of torque, as I've been told by a number of people using it.

Andy

andythejock01wrx

Spot on mate.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ah, it does give you better drivability down low but it wont make the same sort of torque in the mid range, so you basically lose out again, still lacks at the top end where you want that bit more power, so you still have the 300 v 300 debate the only turbo ive found that gives this all round is the VF36, but the engine was different, gave you both low down and top end but thats JDM cars for ya

Tony

scooby51

cossie - no probs mate thats about what i'm looking for too so if we can help each other then job done

Tony - thanks for your input and comments they will be heeded

Thanks again to all

Dave

andythejock01wrx

Don't doubt that a VF36 on a JDM is in a different league, but note this a UK WRX.

I've done a fair bit of research into the TD04H, cos I plan on buying one. The VF35 was the other option, and is clearly an excellent turbo. The point I'm making is that you can't go wrong with either if you're after a quick spooling, very driveable Scoob.

Andy F described the difference between the two as "20bhp and 300revs". (power in favour of the VF35, spool-up in favour of the TD04H). Scoobydoo69 got 328bhp on his Newage WRX (with STi TMIC, Walbro etc)and similar torque on his TD04 Hybrid and thought the car was far superior with the TD04H to the TD05 16G he'd had before - not in terms of power, but in terms of drivability. The turbo was starting to spool at 2100 revs. According to Scoobydoo69, Bob Rawle, who mapped the car, emailed Andy F immediately because he was so surprised at how good "the wee turbo" was !

Don't rule out the Hybrids Tony, one day they will take over the world.

Andy Mc

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

It also depends on your driving style, my Spec C was great all round, pulled better low down than a TD04 (from 15-1700rpm) to the red line, also gave fantastic midrange power, which is what your really after
So the TD04 will be a good town pounder where as the VF35 will be a better motorway pounder, either one will be pretty good on country roads, as long as you keep the turbo on the boil, but if you want the torque then the bigger of the 2 will give you more
As for hybrids, no doubt there will be many about soon but you need a turbo to start from before you make it a hybrid

Tony

andythejock01wrx

Surprised you didn't run out of smileys there Tony !

Basically the point I was making was that lots of folk seem to go for big bhp without thinking too much about driveability (I think we agree on that ).

I did have a couple of other concerns with the VF35 :
-More power than the TD04h just puts me closer to the limits of the gearbox.
- Was gonna have take my headers off and send them down south to be ported (couldn't be arsed doing this and doing without the car at the same time !).

Andy

MartynJ

As Zen advise I would also fit the VF34/35 to attain the 300hp you are looking for with ease...
300hp is available from the standard TD04 , but it is a push and you have to have the the best available bolt ons and a good map to make it...

ClintUK

I have TD04 Hybrid a DIY job, and probably not quite as good as Andy Fs for the top end but look at the 2 graphs here, mine and a VF35 with very similar supporting mods.

I get my torque quicker than the VF35.
300ftlbs 400rpm lower than the VF35 and it lasts 200/300 rpm longer over all as well.

My results tally very well with Andy Fs comments to andythejock.





No doubt the VF35 is better than the standard TD04, but I'd have to say TD04 hybrid seems to pip that.

Now I'm off for a thrash and to take over the world with my wee TD04 on this sunny bank holiday.

Bye

cossie01

Some good info here guys, thanks.

Ok I know that by making more power this will create more heat and therefore potentially loose some of the power I could have gained by changing to an STi top mount.

But in terms of BHP and Torque how much are we talking about ?

5bhp, 10bhp, 20bhp ???

or only 1 / 2bhp ?

Again what sort of torque figures are we talking ?

easyscoob

so is it best to go for a vf 35 instead of a vf34 then? i was under the impression that a 34 was better?

mgcvk

I can't imagine any of us are going to notice the difference between a VF34 and 35 when fitted. The 35 is meant to spool marginally quicker with the 34 giving marginally more top end power. I find the VF35 starts to spool at pretty much dead on 3500 rpm where the TD04 started to spool at around 2500rpm. Despite that the VF35 pulls with much more strength and you get to 3500 rpm so quickly I can't say that matters. You have to wait for the turbo to kick in whichever you have.

mshill

iTrader: (4)

My 03 wrx has:
TD05 16G, large top mount intercooler, sti pink injectors, fuel pump, inner wing induction kit, polished and ported headers / heat wrapped, full 2.5" hayward & scott exhaust incl up pipe( No cats), P1 gear box, clutch & rear diff.

Car just remapped by Andy F, made approx 330Bhp 310 torque at 1.3 bar.

Nothing up to 3000rpm, but pulls like a train up to 7000

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

This has turned into a very interesting thread, very interesting reading about users real world feedback on these turbos

~~ Cal ~~

Here how I got my 2002 WRX to 305 bhp & 300 "torques"


Quote:
Originally Posted by ~~ Cal ~~
Here my post remp report from the SIDC > it was this thread that made me finaly opt for the VF35



Was down at Dr. Forrest surgery today for my 3rd ( a final ? [:P]) remap ......
Roads were bone dry and the air temps were low with exceptionally quiet roads
The car has been transformed into something I am almost scared of now.....
Making 305 bhp & 300 ft. lbs torque and 1.0 bar boost @ 2800 revs ( 1.3 bar by 2950 revs).
I will do my usual Dastek Dyno benchmarking soon for curves comparisons with the previous remaps
Almost exactly the same power and torque than an STi8 with PPP but in a lighter car with
a 5 speed box. ( http://www.prodrive.com/up/03MY%20STi%20PPP.pdf)
I was worried about the turbo being laggy before I got my remap but the fact it that it's more torquey
off boost than with the TD04 fully compensates. The VF35 is on full boost before 3000rpm and on song only 500 rpm later than the TD04.
Where the TD04 went to sleep the VF35 kicks off. At 4000 revs it surges right up to the limiter. 3rd gear is pure shax ...
And then the party piece. Andy enabled the disabled the fuel cut overrun ( or whatever it was called) in the Ecutek software
to let me see ( or should I say hear !) what it was like. Farkin' hall.............sounds just like anti-lag when you lift off ( with a hot exhaust). We were teetering like a couple of schoolboys after a quick sprint and the inevitable pop-bang routine. We are not just talking about the odd random pop - these are full on, guaranteed, on demand and numerous. Sadly I opted to have it disabled as the novelty would have worn off and it was just a bit too frequent. Ecutek really should have the functionality switchable via the aircon button or something. Then their license sales would go nuts
So all in all, the car is running sweet and I am well chuffed. Canny wait to see how she performs at the Ring.
A HUGE thanks go to Andy and Wuz for their combined wizardry ........[Y][<)]
Engine Mods for info :-

Nailing it outta the Forth Road bridge toll was a total gas []

Thanks to all you lot too for generally being a bad influence. Thanks to you jokers I have gone from 215 to 230 to 250 to 305 bhp.

Cal

redragon

same here 03 wrx fmic td05 16g 332/312 hit 3000rpm and it pulls like a train to 7000rpm and mapped by pat at the clinic

andythejock01wrx

More, more, I love this kind of thread !

~~ Cal ~~

One thing I have noticed is that the TD04 gave more kick immediately out of a corner ....but when overtaking with a VF35...........JAYSUS !! Talk about rapid. I find myself looking at the rev counter more with the VF35 whereas I changed up instinctively with the TD05 @ 5.5k. 3rd gear is so much fun...

VF35 is a lot noiser too. It's more "whiney" and you can really hear it sucking at the panel filter. No complaints there !

andythejock01wrx

Did you do your mods in a few different stages Cal ? (eg Remap and decat, try a turbo, try another turbo !)

~~ Cal ~~

Andy - here is the sorta history of my modding from an old SIDC post.....

Whiteline gear & Prodrive Springs have been fired on since I wrote the post back Sept. 2006

Cal

************************************************** *******

My goal has been to slowly mod my car and create a daily runner which has a reasonable combination of power mods, chassis tweaks and powerful brakes which can handle the odd track day. My suspension is untouched as yet but the brakes have been fettled and are more than adequate for track and road in their current state. So Whiteline gear to follow me finks. The aspiration is to hone my car into a reliable all-rounder B-road weapon which can extract the odd STi scalp ( if required). Of course the STi ( say a 2002 UK model for arguments sake) has many different features other than the 6 speed box, stronger brakes & better handling but I like the thought of issuing a small fright on occasion. Apparently the STi UK 2002 model had 261.5bhp at 6,000rpm and at 253 lb ft at 4000 rpm.

Anyway, purpose of the post is to show how a few tweaks can dramatically transform a 215 bhp standard UK WRX into something a bit tastier.

3 graphs on each page represent the 3 different dyno sessions I have had at Wallace Performance ( Dastek system) over 3 different stages of tune over 12 months or so ( I kept using the same dyno set-up for consistencies sake despite having no control over weather etc !)

Stage 1 - the usual attempts to let her breathe and free up some burble.

Factory Map + K&N panel filter, WR Sport backbox, ScoobySport decat link pipe and unsilenced centre section. Horrible standard WRX downpipe & up-pipe cat still in-situ.

Stage 2 - a remap to see what gains can be realised from a Ecutek remap

Andy Forrest Map + the above

Stage 3 - more serious tweaks in pursuit of more boost & ponies

Revised Andy Forrest Map + ScoobySport Backbox mated to to complete turbo back TSL Thundercat system ( high flow 100 cell cat) + decat H&S up-pipe + ported turbo ( though still a standard TD04). Not hitting target boost in 2nd as I need to tweak the actuator but 3rd & 4th is hitting 1.2 bar of boost.

The results

(I know the real indicator is how it feels on the road but the below is a worthwhile exercise to superimpose the three runs)





In summary,

I have a nice quick spool up with torque flooding in early & strong ( above is 4th gear on all runs (I believe)) with peak torque almost delivered at only 3500 rpm. Bottom line is 280 bhp @ 5750 rpm and 265 ft.lbs @ 5200 rpm. [H]

Any thoughts

..as to what should come next ( TD04 hybrid perhaps plus larger IC ?) Not really keen on going beyond 300 bhp in line with my reliability mindset. Handling recommendations also welcome - not keen on the brutal drop of Teins but Eibachs may be next. However, the standard springs are excellent on a bumpy B-road so maybe Whiteline gear alone may prove the remedy ?

andythejock01wrx

Cheers Cal. Make a good read. Will do something similar in a few months.

A wee bit off thread this, but how do you navigate to the "general for sale" section on the SIDC website ? (ie the stuff the members are selling) I can't find it ! Would I need to pay for membership first ?

cheers,

Andy

~~ Cal ~~

Sing up for free, here's the link to general sales Subaru Impreza Drivers Club Forums - Sales

cossie01

So having read more of this thread, am I right in thinking these STi pink injectors I've bought are not gonna be needed ?

~~ Cal ~~

Not strictly...........but ideally I could have hit 320 bhp with STi pinks and an STi IC. I am happy with the way it is for now

cossie01

Ok can anyone give me an answer on my ealier post please to let me know roughly what power difference there will be between my std. 2002 wrx interboiler and the STi version.

Cheers

~~ Cal ~~

I would say 10 - 15 bhp with an STi IC

but it's the pinks that allow you to run higher boost @ the top end of the rev range, that's what's been holding my figures back at tad

I am by no means an expert though

Andy.F

A similar topic was discussed here last year,

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...brid-td04.html

Here is one of the TD04 Vs TD04 hybrid dyno results from that thread.



The TD04 hybrid is somewhere between the TD04 and VF35 for power output and matches the TD04 for spool up.

Andy