Please: think about emissions
20 April 2007, 08:29 PM
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I love your post marmski, you are more eloquent that I ever will be.
In the mean time I have a sticker going on the back of my Impreza
"Global Warming: Bringing a ray of sunshine to a place near you"
In the mean time I have a sticker going on the back of my Impreza
"Global Warming: Bringing a ray of sunshine to a place near you"
20 April 2007, 08:29 PM
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Hello,
I am finding some of the responses quite sad and worrying by the very least. I expected many people to take on board what we (the trust) are saying at trying to save this Earth for your children and your childrens children. I am also a lay preacher at my local methodist church and everyone is on board. Now come on chaps, lets show some community. I am not alone in my beliefs, in 10 years time it will be compulsory to use public transport.
Regards,
Elwyn
I am finding some of the responses quite sad and worrying by the very least. I expected many people to take on board what we (the trust) are saying at trying to save this Earth for your children and your childrens children. I am also a lay preacher at my local methodist church and everyone is on board. Now come on chaps, lets show some community. I am not alone in my beliefs, in 10 years time it will be compulsory to use public transport.
Regards,
Elwyn
Of course, it's a point of good sense that we should do all we can to put less crap into our environment and the car manufactuers should endeavour to make cars cleaner, but they are doing exactly that. If there are any "Villians" it's heavy industry and the airlines! However, even they account for very small proportions of greenhouse gasses compared to that produced by mother nature.
Now, turning to the assumption that C02 is causing an increase in Global temps. This is not the case, the two are correlated, but this is not the same thing as cause an effect; it had long been assumed that temp increases followed C02 increases. In fact, it's the other way around!
What are we supposed to do about nature's contribution to Greenhouse gasses??
Now, lets look at the increase in global temps and put it in some kind of sensible perspective. The planet is 100s of millions of years old and has undergone several ice ages, for example! Do you really think we can look back on records dating back mere 100s of years and make valid inferences about what the future holds?
A lot of the mathematical models of global warming are nothing more than a case of garbage in, garbage out! Much of this work, incidently, has been financed by the Government, who would like nothing more than for us to believe we are the villians to justify imposing taxes to "punish" us for not driving around in a milkfloat! When you look at the work from independent researchers whose funding isn't contingent with them towing the gov line, the findings are quite different: i.e. the sums don't add up!!
So what are we left with: We produce very little Greenhouse gasses, we don't know whether they are responsible for global warming, we can't put this warming in a reliable context, so we don't actually know if it's even anything to be concerned about. Even if it was, since most of the greenhouse gasses are natural we don't know if there is anything we can do about it; we'd be fighting mother nature at god only knows what kind of cost (to say nothing of the fact that history testifies that when we take on mother nature, most of the time we get our butts kicked).
There are so many more things related to the health of the planet that are within our power to do something about.
Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 20 April 2007 at 08:32 PM.
20 April 2007, 08:29 PM
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i can get my impreza down to 18 miles for a tenner !! and have destroyed a stray sheep that thought the tufts of grass at the side of the road would be safe to eat while my scanny was going past at 50 ! er, no !
is your name shadwell ??
is your name shadwell ??
20 April 2007, 08:30 PM
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Hello,
Alright, I take your point we have long way to go before the whole of the UK rail network is fully electrified. However as far as insect and other sacred creatures are concerned there are the same deaths for 90 people on a train as what there would be for 4 passengers in a car: each mode of transport has one windscreen and catches the same number of insects. End of argument really. Your conscience of the death of these creatures is shared with 90 people not 4 or at worst 1 lone passenger in a car.
Regards
Elwyn
Alright, I take your point we have long way to go before the whole of the UK rail network is fully electrified. However as far as insect and other sacred creatures are concerned there are the same deaths for 90 people on a train as what there would be for 4 passengers in a car: each mode of transport has one windscreen and catches the same number of insects. End of argument really. Your conscience of the death of these creatures is shared with 90 people not 4 or at worst 1 lone passenger in a car.
Regards
Elwyn
all in all i think your argument is flawed,as i said before global warming is just an excuse for the government to impose another tax,there is no 100% proof carbon emmissions are causing it just some peoples theories.
20 April 2007, 08:38 PM
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Hello
A lot of people seem to be missing a very important point. Scientists have proved that CO2 emissions are contributing to global warming and other nasty criteria. The government and the united nations are right behind these beliefs and it is our own responsibility to take heed and make an impact. Just one small change by every subscriber to this forum will make a difference. Even if it is only 10% less emissions by choosing a less pioluting vehicle, over ten years you will have all made a difference to this earth and we need to set an example to the remainder of the world. I am sure anyone reading in Zimbabwe will be influenced by the comments displayed tonight, that is not good for the rest of the world is it? You see, it is like I say in my surmons every Sunday morning it is the example which counts. He who taketh the stand will repent and forsake his faith to mankind.
Regards
Elwyn
A lot of people seem to be missing a very important point. Scientists have proved that CO2 emissions are contributing to global warming and other nasty criteria. The government and the united nations are right behind these beliefs and it is our own responsibility to take heed and make an impact. Just one small change by every subscriber to this forum will make a difference. Even if it is only 10% less emissions by choosing a less pioluting vehicle, over ten years you will have all made a difference to this earth and we need to set an example to the remainder of the world. I am sure anyone reading in Zimbabwe will be influenced by the comments displayed tonight, that is not good for the rest of the world is it? You see, it is like I say in my surmons every Sunday morning it is the example which counts. He who taketh the stand will repent and forsake his faith to mankind.
Regards
Elwyn
20 April 2007, 08:41 PM
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Your cause is noble, but misguided. The motorist is not the enemy of the environment: we account for a tiny proportion of so called "greenhouse gasses". The vast majority is produced by natural sources i.e. from the sea!
Of course, it's a point of good sense that we should do all we can to put less crap into our environment and the car manufactuers should endeavour to make cars cleaner, but they are doing exactly that. If there are any "Villians" it's heavy industry and the airlines! However, even they account for very small proportions of greenhouse gasses compared to that produced by mother nature.
Now, turning to the assumption that C02 is causing an increase in Global temps. This is not the case, the two are correlated, but this is not the same thing as cause an effect; it had long been assumed that temp increases followed C02 increases. In fact, it's the other way around!
What are we supposed to do about nature's contribution to Greenhouse gasses??
Now, lets look at the increase in global temps and put it in some kind of sensible perspective. The planet is 100s of millions of years old and has undergone several ice ages, for example! Do you really think we can look back on records dating back mere 100s of years and make valid inferences about what the future holds?
A lot of the mathematical models of global warming are nothing more than a case of garbage in, garbage out! Much of this work, incidently, has been financed by the Government, who would like nothing more than for us to believe we are the villians to justify imposing taxes to "punish" us for not driving around in a milkfloat! When you look at the work from independent researchers whose funding isn't contingent with them towing the gov line, the findings are quite different: i.e. the sums don't add up!!
So what are we left with: We produce very little Greenhouse gasses, we don't know whether they are responsible for global warming, we can't put this warming in a reliable context, so we don't actually know if it's even anything to be concerned about. Even if it was, since most of the greenhouse gasses are natural we don't know if there is anything we can do about it; we'd be fighting mother nature at god only knows what kind of cost (to say nothing of the fact that history testifies that when we take on mother nature, most of the time we get our butts kicked).
There are so many more things related to the health of the planet that are within our power to do something about.
Ns04
Of course, it's a point of good sense that we should do all we can to put less crap into our environment and the car manufactuers should endeavour to make cars cleaner, but they are doing exactly that. If there are any "Villians" it's heavy industry and the airlines! However, even they account for very small proportions of greenhouse gasses compared to that produced by mother nature.
Now, turning to the assumption that C02 is causing an increase in Global temps. This is not the case, the two are correlated, but this is not the same thing as cause an effect; it had long been assumed that temp increases followed C02 increases. In fact, it's the other way around!
What are we supposed to do about nature's contribution to Greenhouse gasses??
Now, lets look at the increase in global temps and put it in some kind of sensible perspective. The planet is 100s of millions of years old and has undergone several ice ages, for example! Do you really think we can look back on records dating back mere 100s of years and make valid inferences about what the future holds?
A lot of the mathematical models of global warming are nothing more than a case of garbage in, garbage out! Much of this work, incidently, has been financed by the Government, who would like nothing more than for us to believe we are the villians to justify imposing taxes to "punish" us for not driving around in a milkfloat! When you look at the work from independent researchers whose funding isn't contingent with them towing the gov line, the findings are quite different: i.e. the sums don't add up!!
So what are we left with: We produce very little Greenhouse gasses, we don't know whether they are responsible for global warming, we can't put this warming in a reliable context, so we don't actually know if it's even anything to be concerned about. Even if it was, since most of the greenhouse gasses are natural we don't know if there is anything we can do about it; we'd be fighting mother nature at god only knows what kind of cost (to say nothing of the fact that history testifies that when we take on mother nature, most of the time we get our butts kicked).
There are so many more things related to the health of the planet that are within our power to do something about.
Ns04
They misguided you my faithful friend. 
20 April 2007, 08:42 PM
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Another wind up merchant...
FYI
Rising CO2 levels are in no way causing the current Global Warming trend. In fact CO2 levels typically lag behind the rise and fall of Global Temperatures by around 800 years. Yes I believe in Global Warming, but no I don't believe it's Man Made as history proves that temperature rise and fall is common place. Ice Ages, Heat Waves in Medievil Times, Mini Ice Age in the 1700's...
The current Global rise in temperature has been found to show that surface temperature has risen at a higher rate than the rate of Greenhouse Gases again disproving that rising CO2 levels and other Green Houses gases are to blame.
The main contributor to giving off CO2 are the Ocean's and Sea's. Man Made emission's contribute to about 0.1% of total CO2 emissions and CO2 itself makes up around 1% max of the atmospheric gases.
Electric powered transportation is hardly a good alternative if you're so dead against CO2. How do you suppose the Electricity is supplied and created in the first place? CO2 beltching Power Stations.
The future is in Bio-Fuels like Ethanol and Methanol which are Carbon Neutral and give us better performance. I think every car should be mapped to the stuff. That way you're doing your bit for the Environment and getting performance gains with it!
I'm afraid it's scaremongering and excuse to tax the hell out of us.
FYI
Rising CO2 levels are in no way causing the current Global Warming trend. In fact CO2 levels typically lag behind the rise and fall of Global Temperatures by around 800 years. Yes I believe in Global Warming, but no I don't believe it's Man Made as history proves that temperature rise and fall is common place. Ice Ages, Heat Waves in Medievil Times, Mini Ice Age in the 1700's...
The current Global rise in temperature has been found to show that surface temperature has risen at a higher rate than the rate of Greenhouse Gases again disproving that rising CO2 levels and other Green Houses gases are to blame.
The main contributor to giving off CO2 are the Ocean's and Sea's. Man Made emission's contribute to about 0.1% of total CO2 emissions and CO2 itself makes up around 1% max of the atmospheric gases.
Electric powered transportation is hardly a good alternative if you're so dead against CO2. How do you suppose the Electricity is supplied and created in the first place? CO2 beltching Power Stations.
The future is in Bio-Fuels like Ethanol and Methanol which are Carbon Neutral and give us better performance. I think every car should be mapped to the stuff. That way you're doing your bit for the Environment and getting performance gains with it!
I'm afraid it's scaremongering and excuse to tax the hell out of us.
20 April 2007, 08:47 PM
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Elwyn Whittock,
I think i speak for the majority when i say thanks for visiting our forum, having someone who has our interests in their mind when talking environment can only be a step forward.
I like many others though have an issue with the 'CO2 = Global Warming' concept widely publicised by the 'Power Figures' of the world, and my reasons mainly lie within the fact that their is just as much proof that Global Warming is being caused by CO2 as their is to say its being caused by another factor outside our control.. for example the theory that the Sun is heating up/getting bigger and could also be causing it. I believe i read the other day that Venus and Mars are heating at the same rate as the Earth, yet contain no means of producing anything other than 'Natural' CO2. Perhaps the reason the alternative theories arent widely accepted or researched into far enough to be able to present a case to discount them completely out of debate by our 'Power Figures' is that they are not taxable? I dont know.. you tell me... perhaps i just have a trust issue with the kettle and black ***'d saucepan that run our country.
If CO2 was proved without doubt to be the reason our Earth is warming, then i would gladly give up my 2006 Impreza STi. Currently it isnt so im going to just pay my higher tax in the hope that the money will be put to use with additional independant research which is soo badly needed on the Earth Warming subject.
I also think alot more could be done to assist the motorist away from our road, strange how a small company like this: Tesla Motors can produce an electric car that would appeal to many Sport Car enthusiasts like the users of this forum when many major manufacturers are still investing in 'Oil Burning' methods of transport. Something tells me that the fact the Electric Car couldnt be 'Green Taxd' or give a route to produce the massive revenue now being drained from the Motorist has some role to play.
If im wrong, please assist me with Importing a Tesla... because i think we may have the first 'Tax Exempt' car for the new banding they have produced. Im sure this will be far from forthcoming though.
Your thoughts appriciated.
I think i speak for the majority when i say thanks for visiting our forum, having someone who has our interests in their mind when talking environment can only be a step forward.
I like many others though have an issue with the 'CO2 = Global Warming' concept widely publicised by the 'Power Figures' of the world, and my reasons mainly lie within the fact that their is just as much proof that Global Warming is being caused by CO2 as their is to say its being caused by another factor outside our control.. for example the theory that the Sun is heating up/getting bigger and could also be causing it. I believe i read the other day that Venus and Mars are heating at the same rate as the Earth, yet contain no means of producing anything other than 'Natural' CO2. Perhaps the reason the alternative theories arent widely accepted or researched into far enough to be able to present a case to discount them completely out of debate by our 'Power Figures' is that they are not taxable? I dont know.. you tell me... perhaps i just have a trust issue with the kettle and black ***'d saucepan that run our country.
If CO2 was proved without doubt to be the reason our Earth is warming, then i would gladly give up my 2006 Impreza STi. Currently it isnt so im going to just pay my higher tax in the hope that the money will be put to use with additional independant research which is soo badly needed on the Earth Warming subject.
I also think alot more could be done to assist the motorist away from our road, strange how a small company like this: Tesla Motors can produce an electric car that would appeal to many Sport Car enthusiasts like the users of this forum when many major manufacturers are still investing in 'Oil Burning' methods of transport. Something tells me that the fact the Electric Car couldnt be 'Green Taxd' or give a route to produce the massive revenue now being drained from the Motorist has some role to play.
If im wrong, please assist me with Importing a Tesla... because i think we may have the first 'Tax Exempt' car for the new banding they have produced. Im sure this will be far from forthcoming though.
Your thoughts appriciated.
Also, please include your plans to propose grants for the purchase of cars such as those produced by Tesla Motors. Im sure we can spare some funds that would otherwise go towards a tank in an ever increasingly likely 'illegal war'.
Thanks in advance, i look forward to reading your documents.
20 April 2007, 08:50 PM
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Still no answers to Post 20 and I'm going home now.
Another question before I go – where did all this CO2 come from? 
Arrr yes, it is from all those fossil fuels and where did the fossils get the CO2 from? Arrr yes, it was the atmosphere! Perhaps that’s what caused the ice ages in the past – No CO2.
The fundamental problem is there is too much hype and not enough facts. By facts, I mean proven 100% incontrovertible facts not hypotheses based upon assumptions and pulling the wool over people’s eyes.
Hope I don't get picked up for being over the limit when I am swerving all over the shop to avoid those flies.
It's been an entertaining 90 minutes though. Night night
Another question before I go – where did all this CO2 come from?
Arrr yes, it is from all those fossil fuels and where did the fossils get the CO2 from? Arrr yes, it was the atmosphere! Perhaps that’s what caused the ice ages in the past – No CO2. The fundamental problem is there is too much hype and not enough facts. By facts, I mean proven 100% incontrovertible facts not hypotheses based upon assumptions and pulling the wool over people’s eyes.
Hope I don't get picked up for being over the limit when I am swerving all over the shop to avoid those flies.
It's been an entertaining 90 minutes though. Night night
20 April 2007, 08:51 PM
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Hold on Elwyn, you claim to be President of the North Wales Environmental Trust and yet give your location as Carmarthen which as I'm sure you must know is actually in Pembroke - South West Wales.
20 April 2007, 08:51 PM
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[QUOTE=AlexT;6854339]
Electric powered transportation is hardly a good alternative if you're so dead against CO2. How do you suppose the Electricity is supplied and created in the first place? CO2 beltching Power Stations.
[QUOTE]
How about Nuclear? Solar? Wind? Wave?
Perhaps Nuclear isnt a clean way of producing electricity (or safe) but the others could be vastly improved with the kinda money we are spending on other not so supported projects like the olympics.
Electric powered transportation is hardly a good alternative if you're so dead against CO2. How do you suppose the Electricity is supplied and created in the first place? CO2 beltching Power Stations.
[QUOTE]
How about Nuclear? Solar? Wind? Wave?
Perhaps Nuclear isnt a clean way of producing electricity (or safe) but the others could be vastly improved with the kinda money we are spending on other not so supported projects like the olympics.
20 April 2007, 08:53 PM
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Hello
A lot of people seem to be missing a very important point. Scientists have proved that CO2 emissions are contributing to global warming and other nasty criteria. The government and the united nations are right behind these beliefs and it is our own responsibility to take heed and make an impact. Just one small change by every subscriber to this forum will make a difference. Even if it is only 10% less emissions by choosing a less pioluting vehicle, over ten years you will have all made a difference to this earth and we need to set an example to the remainder of the world. I am sure anyone reading in Zimbabwe will be influenced by the comments displayed tonight, that is not good for the rest of the world is it? You see, it is like I say in my surmons every Sunday morning it is the example which counts. He who taketh the stand will repent and forsake his faith to mankind.
Regards
Elwyn
A lot of people seem to be missing a very important point. Scientists have proved that CO2 emissions are contributing to global warming and other nasty criteria. The government and the united nations are right behind these beliefs and it is our own responsibility to take heed and make an impact. Just one small change by every subscriber to this forum will make a difference. Even if it is only 10% less emissions by choosing a less pioluting vehicle, over ten years you will have all made a difference to this earth and we need to set an example to the remainder of the world. I am sure anyone reading in Zimbabwe will be influenced by the comments displayed tonight, that is not good for the rest of the world is it? You see, it is like I say in my surmons every Sunday morning it is the example which counts. He who taketh the stand will repent and forsake his faith to mankind.
Regards
Elwyn
So are you telling us that you use public transport all the time?? I dont think any of us will be forced to use public transport i certainly wont be using it when i have the choice of 4 cars to use if i wish to. We pay our road tax, car insurance and pay for our fuel so we have every right to use the roads. Its not our fault tony blair is a total ***** its just a shame some people believe what that **** head says!
also why not find some **** tractor website and preach to them about what type of emmissons they are giving off like red diesel instead of coming to us saying use your car less atleast we pay frigging road tax unlike tractors who take up half the road put more emmissions into the world because they take so long to move out of the ****ting way!
Last edited by Stephb1986; 20 April 2007 at 09:05 PM. Reason: i wanted to
20 April 2007, 08:55 PM
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Elwyn,
If you're for real, consider this...
1. You make me ashamed to be Welsh.
2. I love my car. It's my hobby and my life. I'll drive it no matter what I'm "told" or "asked" to do.
3. I own a nice 2.5l turbocharged car (which I work hard to be able to run)that pollutes far less than some sh*tty old Escort or Rover.
4. I own a 7.7l V8 American classic truck. I use it on rare summer weekends. It will pollute FAR less than the average Mondeo racking up 200,000 miles on the motorways of the UK.
5. You want me to go buy a diesel instead..? I'd rather not. Working with diesel fumes being belched out of Eastern European lorries for the last 7 years has given me a very serious illness. Not such a good idea there Elwyn.
6. How does India, Poland, Bulgaria, Russia and China fare on all this environmental stuff..? Come and stand in Dover Eastern Docks with me and witness the sh*t that the vehicles from a few of the places above are chucking out of their exhausts. Go preach to them and see where that gets you.
7. With all due respect, stop trying to tell us what to do or we'll soon be standing up as free people in a free country. Now, kindly unplug your computer, then unplug your head from your **** and f*ck off.
8. Have a nice day.
Nige.
If you're for real, consider this...
1. You make me ashamed to be Welsh.
2. I love my car. It's my hobby and my life. I'll drive it no matter what I'm "told" or "asked" to do.
3. I own a nice 2.5l turbocharged car (which I work hard to be able to run)that pollutes far less than some sh*tty old Escort or Rover.
4. I own a 7.7l V8 American classic truck. I use it on rare summer weekends. It will pollute FAR less than the average Mondeo racking up 200,000 miles on the motorways of the UK.
5. You want me to go buy a diesel instead..? I'd rather not. Working with diesel fumes being belched out of Eastern European lorries for the last 7 years has given me a very serious illness. Not such a good idea there Elwyn.
6. How does India, Poland, Bulgaria, Russia and China fare on all this environmental stuff..? Come and stand in Dover Eastern Docks with me and witness the sh*t that the vehicles from a few of the places above are chucking out of their exhausts. Go preach to them and see where that gets you.
7. With all due respect, stop trying to tell us what to do or we'll soon be standing up as free people in a free country. Now, kindly unplug your computer, then unplug your head from your **** and f*ck off.
8. Have a nice day.
Nige.
Last edited by v8voodoo; 20 April 2007 at 09:32 PM.
20 April 2007, 09:14 PM
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20 April 2007, 09:21 PM
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20 April 2007, 09:29 PM
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Please give generously
Hello
Anyone who is willing to give to the trust can forward any tinned products, old linen, cassettes, vinyl records by Hank Wangford or whatever we will sell them on to raise money to save our planet.
Come on people, lets have a clear out of your lofts and closets.
Regards
Elwyn
Anyone who is willing to give to the trust can forward any tinned products, old linen, cassettes, vinyl records by Hank Wangford or whatever we will sell them on to raise money to save our planet.
Come on people, lets have a clear out of your lofts and closets.
Regards
Elwyn
20 April 2007, 09:32 PM
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Mine is slim shady!!!
Come on, only you could dismiss testimony from Oxford and Harvard Professors as "propoganda" and listen to the likes of Al gore (a man who can't even spell 'potato') and TB and his cronies (who should be a more concerned with the immediate problems they have left this country and, indeed, the world with!)
Also, why is testimony that casts doubt over the global warming "propoganda" a lot of hot air about c02/temp correlations "proof"
Game's up. Well played though!!!!
Ns04
Come on, only you could dismiss testimony from Oxford and Harvard Professors as "propoganda" and listen to the likes of Al gore (a man who can't even spell 'potato') and TB and his cronies (who should be a more concerned with the immediate problems they have left this country and, indeed, the world with!)
Also, why is testimony that casts doubt over the global warming "propoganda" a lot of hot air about c02/temp correlations "proof"
Game's up. Well played though!!!!
Ns04
20 April 2007, 09:32 PM
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did you say your name was ellen ?? ah a transexual ! anyway, i think you are a bawbag. how do you like them apples ?? can someone put an infraction on this hard on !
