New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

IIRC Sti 6 intercooler is not significantly bigger/better than non STi of the same year mate. You need to upgrade to Sti 8 to improve things, or, of course, a front mount.

Ns04

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Good point there. I think the point is that both routes involve compromise. For me, the ability to track the car and spend lots of time under wide open throttle with less increase in charge temp afforded by a FMIC does not make up for the loss in throttle response and increased lag that it also introduced on my car (which is primarily for road use). A quarter to half a second lag in between each gear change doesn't sound like much, but that could add up to 1-2 seconds when accelerating through the gears from 1st to fifth - quite a price to pay. For me, the lack of response also detracts from the driving experience, but then I have been used to high revving NA cars in the past

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

That'd explain it!

Thing is though, if your change temps go up then any consistent advantage in a sprint thought the gears afforded by less lag would be negated by the ECU knocking back the ignition to avoid DET wouldn't it?

Originally, I was under the impression that charge temps was only really an issue for people who track the car or drive WOT everywhere, but I'm told that this is simply not the case and that they can soar very quickly.

Ns04

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

I have an STI 8 top mount on MY99 uk car, spec in "view my Scoob", If i haven't used WOT or boost after getting the car going, when I do get chance to give it WOT the boost is higher than after a short period of WOT.

It is noticable.

The first few runs gives me about 21psi, after a few runs this can fall to 18psi. In traffic it can be worse.

Also I am loosing boost above 5000rpm, it is either from the inlet manifold or the intercooler. I have heard that STI 7/8/9 intercooler can leak but I do not know how substantiated that statement is.

I would like to go for a FMIC now as the extra boost you can run is addictive (going on my experience from when the TMIC is cold)

Damo

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

In theory you're right, but I think there are plenty of people on here running close to 400bhp on a newage or uprated top mount with excellent results and no significant increase in charge temperatures. Of course, when standing at the lights, there's definitely more heatsoak with a topmount, but once on the move and in real driving conditions on the road, the charge inlet temperatures are quite similar. Having said that, I understand that the classic topmounts are much less efficient.

I don't think even the most amazing FMIC can be mapped to produce the extra power required (over a good TMIC) to produce a 1-2 second drop in the 0-100mph time to compensate for in gear lag

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

The boost should stay the same surely? Maybe you're losing boost because something is loose and as everything expands with general heat build up, this is allowing some air to escape

ex-webby

I have just changed (as part of the new engine etc) to a FMIC. This has purely been done because of the intended use of the car. The engine is still being run-in at present and is also larger capacity, but initial feedback on the FMIC is good. Plenty more feedback and testing required though.

The FMIC I have is absolutely huuuuuge, being the Hyperflow Monster kit.

For levels of up to 450bhp (use a decent, effecient turbo) the standard TMIC on a Newage is certainly adequate for normal road use (don't under estimate these TMIC). I would suggest a FMIC could be more effecient even up to this level, but you obviously have to offset the cost.

Regards,
Shaun.

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

I could be very very wrong but I thought the boost pressure would be higher when cold due to the density of the air being higher.

On the charge temp side I found this https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...e+tmeperatures

Gives a good insight into the effectiveness of the STI 7/8/9 in post number 4

Damo

steve0

Right, im now back to square one, havent got a clue!! My heads in tatters with these differrent options and opinions being thrown about!!

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

At the end of the day it's all about personal preference, but if you buy an STI 7/8/9, you should be able to sell it later on, if it isn't for you, for roughly the same price you bought it for.

Damo

ex-webby

SteveO,
If you can easily fit the STi8 TMIC to your car, then forget the FMIC for your power level.

steve0

Thanks for that mate, its decided then!

Im pretty sure I 'should' be able to fit one, was planning on just using the how-to guide on here. Im relatively mechanically minded, and a friend of mine (who is a mechanic) will be helping.

Can anyone, who has fitted one to a MY99/00 Uk Turbo comment on the difficulty of fitting it??

swisstonihasher

I went through the whole TMIC/FMIC route when I had a 2L running upto 330-350 bhp, it was an APS TMIC big item (like the Sti8) with cold air feed in wing and it did make a difference to initial grunt but it couldn't/wouldn't sort the heat soak...I put exhaust rap on everything, including the turbo and it still would go ski high when in slow traffic, then the car would perform badly (not that I wanted to can it once I knew she was running so hot ).

Now FMIC with IC water spray and water injection, remap etc etc...spool is mad partly thanks to my hybrid turbo though/plus Bob's magic, IC temps very very low .

So, recommend FMIC for sure, fit IC water spray if you can and you'll not look back plus you'll already have scope to go higher bhp if/when it happens - no heat soak and ice cooool. If you're worried about spool, just get a 3 port solenoid and have the lot mapped, she'll be sweet trust me.

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

It's fairly easy as long as you take your time, it would be worth getting a second passenger side intercooler bracket if you intend in bending the one you have as it is easy to snap it.

Damo

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

That's a good point. How many people who were not satisfied about spool had one of these?

Ns04

reano

iTrader: (2)

Was got online by a company called turbobits (not sure if they still around) but you can set it to respond based on the load on the engine. Takes a few hours to fit c3 hours I didn't fit it WRC did (was charged a bit) would probably do else where if I did again but works fine

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

New Scoob - Yes, have 3-port. Need to emphasise here, she spools up nice and low down the rev range; just takes a while when changing gear on full chat (ie well up into the functional rev range of the turbo) to repressurise all the air in the system and for the car to pick up again and get going once the throttle is planted

Reano - thanks for info

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

Just a thought but would running without a dump valve help with the pressurisation of the system?

I realise this isn't really possible with a VF series turbo

Damo

911

Brings back some memories...

I did the V8 TMIC project and got my Sti V3 to about 400 bhp ish (it was Well Lane RR after all)

The car did 5 runs on the RR in succession with forced cooling.
the first two were to get the hot engine up and juicey and then we did the big run the 4th was a big run too and 30 bhp down and the 5th was a big run and a further 20 down.
This was all due to charge temp rising.

That's 5 simple hard blasts of about 30 seconds each time (seemed like an hour).

For a road car and 350 ish/1.5 bar I think the V8 is a nice simple mod.

Look further up the range/use/boost and a FMIC is essential IMHO.

Graham

Butty

iTrader: (2)

In the replies so far, it seems that classic model owners run into charge temp problems (even with the newage STi IC TMIC fitted), earlier than newage owners, but seem to dominate the opinions for switching to a FMIC.

What doesn't work for an old model ain't necessarily true for all models.

Nick

Mongo

Even with ecu controlled water spray? Was thinking about doing this along side an oil cooler and a later shaped scoop?

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

Remember that charge temp issues will be amplified several times on a RR compared to a 'normal' road blast... they just can not hope to replicate the air flow.

Tony.

911

Accepted.
Just trying to illustrate the speed the temperatures rise in this instance.

Water sparay cannot hope to quench the TMIC quickly.

I even resorted to adding considerable ice cubes into the intercooler spray water to hit the matrix with cold atomised water that was spraying all through a hillclimb (not on the road.)

I took the car in the same guise to Power Station's RR where they cap the TMIC with a huge airflow fan directed into the TMIC with the bonnet up.
It gave 380 bhp once. Just further info.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Some on here have alluded to a difference is noise between a TMIC and FMIC set up. Would anyone care to elaborate further: good/bad difference?

Obviously not nearly as imp as the temp issue, but I'm curious all the same.

Ns04

KIPS

Just to throw another spanner in the works are the gear change lag caused by VTA dumpvalve or are people using a recerc which would help pressure build up quicker wouldnt it?

KIP

911

There is a big change in noise.
You have to use a cone filter with a FMIC as the stock air box has to go to make room for the pipe. This is part of the messing-up of the engine bay and the need for a cold air box which rarely looks 'factory'.
This opens up all the hissing and belching normally suppressed by the air box.
I don't really like it but it's not too bad.

My Hybrid (from Harvey) uses the stock Sti V3 DV to the stock fitting etc and works a treat.

The car runs/ticks over steady for ever, tears off the start line when asked to and revs freely to 8000 time and time again.

It has the 20g lagg (on a 2 litre) which is easy to anticipate, and that lag did not change one bit from TMIC to FMIC but i did do one master thing.

I had it remapped by Andy F. A secret weapon if ever there was one.

Graham.

GazTheHat

Adding the induction kit, which is required with a FMIC will bring all the woosh, pittush noises into the cabin. The inner wing cold air inductions are quieter though.

I have an APS one and can only hear the sucking noise and blowing on gear change when heavy throttle, other times it's not too audible.