Flatcapdriver

Tel. I'm not with you?

TelBoy

From post #1

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

if global warming is affecting us then wont we end up with a mini Australia here?

cant wait

OllyK

Well there's the rub, we "may" get a 2C temp rise or we "may" get a 10C temp rise or we "may" actually get colder due to the Gulf Stream stopping and oceans may or may not rise. In fact nobody seems to have a clue what will happen, just that it will be bad. When they can tell me what IS going to happen and why it's bad, then I'll start to worry, but I suspect I'll be worm food by then.

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

i dont think it will affect our generation too much so we will never know what will happen

Flatcapdriver

Tel, with respect I've spent nearly twenty years selling/marketing various sustainable technologies/products with a strong environmental slant so I speak with a fair degree of experience. The whole environmental debate has been hijacked by pollies for their own devices so its hard to understand what is fact from fiction. I've sold everything from recycled paper, through to refrigerant gases, autogas and so and so on - the one thing I've learnt is that there are so many vested interests determined to muddy the water to suit their own interests, its insane.

The simple fact of the matter is that Oz has suffered droughts time and time again and I can even remember water rationing back in the late '70s and early '80s. I can even remember some pollie coming to my school to explain why there wasn't enough water to round - your average Aussie hates politicians and that coupled with the directness of kids (and in particular Aussie kids) and you can imagine how tough a day he had when he told us to cut down on our showers. No ****ing chance! Anyway, I'm sure that BoM was saying that there had been an increase in rainfall levels recently anyway, so this could be a bit of alarmist reporting.

There's nothing new in this story. Australia's infrastructure is poor, as is Spain's and a few other countries with mediteranean climates and whilst I have no doubt that man has an influence on climate change, I simply cannot tell you to what extent.

Having experienced Kyoto first hand, I cannot tell you how inept Prescott and company were. They were like kids in a sweet shop, after all this was their first jolly after winning the election which they seemed determined to enjoy, whilst not realising the critical part they had to play. It was a crying shame that John Gummer never got to finish what he started as he was one of the few pollies that I've met with a genuine passion and understanding for what he was doing. Still, he's done well out of Sandcroft anyway.

So, call me a cynic but I am basing my opinion on some experience rather than gobbling up some sound bite and regurgitating it as my own opinion, Scoobynet stylee.

wilfthree

I have read that this is part of another El Nino cycle which is developing - its already caused whales to die off the coast of California due to rising sea temps causing the stuff they eat in the water to die. Last one was in 1997 apparently so its not that out of the norm.

But I do believe in global warming as a separate issue to a point.

warrenm2

Telboy and Olly - you mention how climate is changing - please tell us when climate was NOT changing, and was completely unchanged with predictable weather over meaningful periods....

No, I thought not

OllyK

Try reading what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote - thanks!

DocJock

OllyK

Carl Munsch (the ocean expert misrepresented in the GGWS programme) is on record as stating that the Gulf Stream is a function of the Earth's rotation and surface winds, not water temperatures.

TelBoy

Climate Theory would suggest raised temperatures cause more evaporation of ocean surface water, hence higher vapour pressure, hence more precipitation rather than less. Quite how this would cause a drought I am not sure...

RobJenks

Ther are vast reserves of fresh water locked in sub terranian reservoirs in Australia.
Also fresh water in massive quantities in the Kimberlys.
A network of canals / pipelines could be devised to release these resources to the rural areas - it would'nt be easy and it would'nt be cheap , but it would be a long term solution to this problem .

Reality

If only Jason Donovan had paid attention during Joseph he could have warned the government about it

TelBoy

Nobody is saying climate isn't changing, but perhaps you could fully explain why the rate of change is altering so much, or why more extreme weather patterns are becoming the norm?

No, i thought not.

Reality

Make your mid up Tel - there are either people denying it or there aint .

TelBoy

FCP - good post

Yes i agree there's a huge industry spawned out of this environmentalism, and i certainly agree that politicians with enormous vested interests, not least to win power, are NOT the best people to push for uncomfortable changes to our patterns of behaviour. Who knows what the exact causes of what we're seeing are, but as i've always said, if the activity of six billion animals the size of humans isn't having a jot of impact, then i'm Father Christmas.

TelBoy

Ok then, *i'm* not saying climate isn't changing I was being prosaic, not literal - apologies.

Reality

Anyway - to get back on topic.

I read somewhere that the effect on global warming from 1 days worldwide deforrestation was the same as 8 million people taking a flight Heathrow to JFK

So me trying to stop my cat farting is gonna have little effect on Global warming.

Deforestation: The hidden cause of global warming - Independent Online Edition > Climate Change

Luan Pra bang

Australia has mismanaged its resources for years with a whole host of problems helping to generate water problems. This is based on the fact that Aussies have consistently tried to farm land that is unsuitable for farming.
The main errors have been


They have launched massive uncontrolled logging for the entire time people have been settled in Aus and this leads to soil erosion and water run off.

Used irrigation to farm land otherwise unsuitable for farming due to irregular rain fall. It has been known for years that they have strange rainfall cycles due to El Ninio.

Cleared native vegitation in massive numbers leading to soil erosion and salinization which again lead to water runoff

Drained significant proportons of rivers to water farmland to a level wherre natural river habitiats are no longer sustainable.


Most forms of agriculture in Aus are referred to as mining because the main body of nutrients and minerals available are locked up in the plants and trees not the soil. This combined with the fact that many environmentalists think Aus only has the natural resources to support a maximum 20 million people and they are on a mssion to increase population sharply means they are heading to an environmental disaster.

OllyK

As I said to warrenm2, try reading what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote. If you still don't understand what I wrote let me know and I'll add a few strategic smilies for you

warrenm2

Rate of change compared to what? We have less rate of change now than compared to the mediaeval warming period then the little ice age. And as far as Atlantic hurricanes go, the rate hasnt increased AT ALL.

Try this little graph as well



Notice anything?

Also read this article Global Warming: A Convenient Lie

TelBoy

Warren, do the last fifty years mate, not the past fekkin 600 million

Luan Pra bang

why 50 years a 100 years would be a minimum to have any impact on assesing mans impact on gloal warming. The whole thing is bollocks and completely avioding real issues with regard to managing resources and sustainability.

warrenm2

Because that suits your arguement better? Sorry if the facts dont fit your world view there. Ok you mean something like this?



Yes that got me convinced too!

TelBoy

Yes that's right, Warren, i'm just picking on the last fifty years because it suits my story, not because there's been an explosion in population, industrialisation, air travel, car usage, deforestation etc etc. Jesus.

Hanslow

I don't buy into it being man-made, and I agree with Tel, the arrogance that we have that we are the main cause simply astounds me.

Of course, it's easy to dismiss that small glowing orb a few million miles away which is constantly fluctuating, as well as the cleaner air that we've now got due to cutting back on pollutants which is letting more and more of the heat and light rays through.

Quite frankly, the earth was here before us, it'll be here long after us. We aren't destined to go on forever. We adapt to the climate, or we die.

Go ahead and flame me, that's my opinion and no amount of propaganda and spin is going to convince me otherwise.

TelBoy

Perhaps, but unless it's just increased media coverage that has exacerbated the view of what's happening out there, more has happened in the last 50 years than the last lots of hundreds, and i'd predict that the changes are going to become even more concentrated too. I think historical weather patterns, when there was insignificant human influence, are pretty meaningless now.

Leslie

There is no doubt that world climates are changing, and this country is no exception. Whether the cause is cyclical or whether it is down to man's influence is not possible for me to say. I would not mock the Aussies for the plight they are in though. We will have our own problems eventually too.

Les

warrenm2

telboy - seeing as you clearly havent got the point of the first graph, I shall explain it to you in simple terms.

THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT LINK BETWEEN CO2 AND GLOBAL TEMPERATURE!!!!!!

Hope that clears it up for you

HTH

Matteeboy

Whatever it is, Oz is full of nasty stuff.

I found our three months there a real wind up with constant snake and spider fear - We had a huntsman (not deadly but nasty) in our tent, nearly trod on a brown snake (deadly) and had a redback (sometimes deadly) descend almost onto us in a relative's house.

Found nice safe NZ a revelation afterwards!

I blame cow farts for everything though.

Abdabz

It's like when you hear a crap song on the radio enough times, some folk will start singing along to it...
Same with human impact on climate change... Hear the same politically influenced dross enough times and some people will actually believe in it...
It scares me how many millions of mentally numb sheep there are in the world.