OllyK

I don't know, but are you suggesting every other country in the world already has these laws and were just the last to implement them?

Leslie

So I was right then. You want the right to ask anyone you see for their "papers" just like the ***** or the Communists, just because they happen to be there and although they have nothing wrong or suspicious at the time and you have nothing on that person before you do so.

Godfathers! I really hope your type does not get into power in this country!

Les

The Zohan

Spot on Boomer, we have all become vicitms of this. in addition common sense and intuition have fallen foul of the PC fools.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I don't understand why its such a big issue ?

OllyK

Because the more controls that get brought it, the more it erodes our freedom, something a lot of people dies for in WW1 and WW2. If you want to be stopped an questioned on every street corner go an live in Zimbabwe.

scoobynutta555

Quite shocked at the views on Felix on this thread. Won't the gov't and police be happy until we're all walking around with tattood barcodes and carrying a tracker? After all if you've nothing to hide............

It's quite disgusting what's happening to personal freedoms and indiviual thinking in this country. Welcome to the Nanny state as well as the Big Brother state. PC attitudes, health and safety obsessive regulation and increasing state powers are the 3 main areas this country has got it totally wrong.

And felix, I take it you disagree with the one sane police voice in this that declares caution with increasing state powers, the duputy police chief of Hampshire who reckons we're heading for an Orwellian situation?

I agree with Leslie on this one, it's crazy what's happening to our society. Most of the excuses I've seen for these new draconian laws are to combat terrorism, hang on, who put us in the firing line anyway?

Felix.

We have had this thread before about putting all police on foot – it won’t work. No need for PNC and Intel – are you mad. That’s like saying no need for your bank to keep a computer record of you account, the cashier behind the counter should make a note of it and remember their customers personally

And do you think criminals will only target premises in their area….? You need to stop watching Hartbeat and look at the real world.

Like I say before, if you want a system in which we can not stop anyone unless they have committed an offence – then fine. Just don’t moan about the police being reactive as apposed to proactive. Like I say before, most people I come across are happy with giving their details and I have only had about 2 people in 7 years that have refused.

But, if you like we should get rid of all CCTV, stop checks and stop searches, don’t pursue any cars in case the drivers are innocent of anything, don’t search houses for missing from homes or stolen property unless we know that they are in there, convicted criminals once they have served their sentence should be allowed to roam where ever they wish no matter what the sentence and put all police back on foot to deal with every incident that comes in (such as a complaint of theft which turned out to be a sausage roll at a party full of drunks which was phoned in on 999 a while ago)…………….great

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I see your getting a bit of stick in this thread, but I actually agree with you

scoobynutta555

There has to be balance. What is proposed is yet another law that takes more freedom from the individual and hands it to the state. Yes you do need laws that enable you to do your job efficiently, however, this must be balanced with how a gov't, or even a police force, may use these laws. In isolation things might look fine and dandy to you, but it is very worrying for many law abiding people. Walter Wolfgang anyone?

Leslie

Very good point Scoobynutta, especially when it was reported that he was detained under the prevention of terrorim act! All he did was to disagree with Jack Straw for goodness sake, at what was supoposed to be a Party "conference".

Felix and Pimmo,

You just cannot see that we value our personal freedoms so highly. We don't wish to be regarded as suspicious by the authorities with no reason for that. If a person is known for causing trouble or is in a compromising situation then it is right that he should be watched or questioned if necessary. We are used to being able to go about our own business without being stopped and being expected to prove our identities etc when we are doing nothing wrong. We don't want to lose that. These things have a history of increasing exponentially until we would be scared to go outside because of the overbearing attitude of the authorities and having to prove ourselves innocent of any imagined wrongdoing. Eventually we could expect to be put away until the authorities' pleasure, for safety's sake of course!

This is not an imaginary situation, if we allowed it, this would eventually happen.

I get the impression that you are somewhat brainwashed Felix, some people might feel inclined to mention the words "Head" and "****" with respect to your job. I would not be so impolite though!

Les

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

One concern about this that no-one seems to have touched on is the implications for the increase in paperwork that will -no doubt- result from such a measure on the number of police on the beat. A visible police presence is the best deterrant for criminals!

In other respects, I really don't see how this measure makes much difference TBH. Police operate on reasonable suspicion now and the'll continue to do so even if this measure was implemented. They're hardly going to waste their time looking for WMD in Auntie Edie's handbag!

I think what makes most peoples ears pick up is the terrorism angle....i.e. people being manipulated through fear into agreeing to something that may not be desirable in a "free society"! People are understandbaly cynical given the right mess that the Iraq conflict (justified on the basis of anti-terrorism) has left us in!

Ns04

boomer

I guess that you are dead right, and Bill Bratton and Ray Mallon were total failures. Lets face it, a 71% fall in burglaries was probably just a statistical blip and not a zero tolerance, men-on-the-street result

You keep on saying that men on the street won't work (despite just about everyone else asking for it) - so why not give it a try? Or are you scared of being stitched up or fired like Ray (who is the first directly elected mayor of Middlesbrough)???

Yup, this same argument will come up again and again, until maybe the police actually get their finger out, try it in anger, and maybe, just maybe, have a real positive effect!

mb

Felix.

And so do the criminals…

Fine, if you don’t agree with stop checks/searches then that’s down to you. But don’t complain about us being reactive and not proactive.

And I am not brainwashed. I am basing my opinions on experience. I can list a whole ream of things which I have got from doing stop checks. Wanted people, breaching court conditions, intelligence, preventing crime you name it. It’s a valuable tool and all based on asking your name and a quick check on a computer. – 2 minutes max.

Felix.

Yes as most were re-classified as theft from dwellings to keep the burglary numbers down. For the record Mallon was not stitched up and admitted to major wrong doings whilst at the police.

Ah and zero tolerance arrives – you will be happy and getting a speeding ticket for 31 in a 30 then.

The only way that putting police back on foot will work is if you drastically increase our numbers (and tell the crims they are not allowed to drive cars). The area we cover is quite huge, we get about 600 incidents reported to us per day with about 70-100 being emergency calls requiring immediate response - all of which need to be investigated properly. We have about 20 of us per shift – do you think putting us all out on foot will help!!!!!!! I don’t see any positive effects

swampster

iTrader: (1)

Well to Mr Average law abiding Joe Bloggs... this seems to be pretty much all the Police are interested in anyway these days!

Felix.

Well, thats zero tolerance - so you will all be happy then..

WRXshaneWRX

iTrader: (1)

ITS ALL BOLLOX, THE REAL TERRORISTS NEVER GET ARRESTED, INFACT THEY GET POLICE BLOODY ESCORTS EVERYWHERE....ARREST AND EXECUTE BLAIR I SAY

swampster

iTrader: (1)

What zero tolerance is all about catching motorists that might be doing 1mph hour over the speed limit and doing b*gger all else about other crimes!?

Seems we have that already, so no need for new legislation then!

Felix.

So everyone's happy then. I'll continue with it then

DCI Gene Hunt

Continue away.... You're such a typical plod.....

PeteBrant

Good luck with those conviction rates

Leslie

You just can't see it can you!

Les

Felix.

Well I'm basing my thoughts on experience - whats yours based on....?

DCI - I don't agree with zero tolerance. but I'm only going on what you say the public want. 'Zero tolerance' (so long as I'm not effected)

scrappydoo

...

Jonno_johnson

More police powers, disgusting why should people be stopped on the street if they are doing no wrong, who gives that jobsworth copper the power to decide he looks dodgey, and go and hassle them for ten minutes.

Some copper left his black case on top of my mates car the other week when he pulled him over, the copper drove off and my mate took the case back home, later that night he gets arrested, by this power trip copper, for perverting the course of justice, and is up at court next week, lol it makes you sick this copper left it his own fault, my mate did nothing with the case expect take it home, and was going to phone the police when he got the chance. *note he doesnt have a landline*

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

All this over a copper stopping you for a chat..

I think those of you who are so against it are trying to hide something..

Jonno_johnson

Nope but were does it end, this law is passed then in time another and another loseing more and more freedom everytime.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

What freedom are you losing by a Police Officer doing his job and just seeing who you are/what your upto?!

If the government was suggesting planting a tracking device up your **** I could understand it.. but a copper asking you for a chat!? Get real.

Jonno_johnson

Well if im walking down the street to meet someone and the jobsworth stops me for ten minutes, i might miss who im going to see.

But anyway were does it stop once this is passed a few months down the line, they will think of something else.

boomer

So try to explain the 43% fall in all crime then!!!

For the record, Ray Mallon was suspended on trumped-up charges for four and a half years, unable to do his job. He wanted out from a corrupt organisation and to try to become Mayor of Middlesbrough, but the CC Barry Shaw refused to accept his resignation, so he was forced to admit guilt to get out of the enforced limbo that he was in. He pleaded guilty, offered no mitigation and asked simply to be dismissed.

Oh, and surprise, surprise, in 2002 he did become Mayor, with a massive majority - despite admitting to "major wrong doings"!!!!!

Zero tolerance isn't an ideal on-going state, but i would be totally happy if it was applied for whatever period of time was required to get those who don't fit into society brought into line (including cycling on the pavement, pikeys dumping in fields, shoplifters getting more than a "telling off", etc.). Oh, and if the people had some proper say in the implementation of the laws being enforced (unlike, say, the ridiculous new 20mph speed limits throughout Portsmouth )

mb