My sympathy is wearing thin...
06 June 2007, 09:34 PM
#301
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Logged Out
Posts: 10,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is another angle to this. If the parents, sorry they cannot speak for themselves, their spokesperson is creating negative empathy then it is not going to help anybody.
It is probably not the families fault and they are so overwhelmed they are being washed along with the whole thing.
And if this approach creates negative empathy then it is the little girl who will suffer.
It is probably not the families fault and they are so overwhelmed they are being washed along with the whole thing.
And if this approach creates negative empathy then it is the little girl who will suffer.
Negative empathy is a trait that can be cultured very well by the British. The very same people would speak to the press, go on TV etc if they found her and collected the reward, letting everyone know just how much they cared for her safe return all along.
06 June 2007, 09:40 PM
#302
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In my house
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote=stilover;6990710]Ooh, name calling. Brilliant.
The point I was trying to make was parents these days worry far to much about their children than our parents did.
Todays parents don't let their kid out of their sight, or let them play anywhere other than their own back garden.[quote]
I can honestly say that is not true where i live we have kids of 4-5 playing chicken in the road the parents are inside watching emmerdale and eastenders! not giving a care in the world what them little ****s are up to, Ive had them play chicken with me many times so i stopped and knocked on where they lived and said that they should be watching what their kids are up to and if they play chicken again i will run them over which is fair enough, but since then they carry on so when they do it i beep my horn and stop and the parents soon come running out thinking ive ran them over.
I dont think parents of today are too over protective some yes but not all of them. They have a right to be cautious with peadophiles and weirdo's around in this country not knowing where they live because our government is so **** that they just dump them anywhere aslong as they aren't in prison so they can lock people away for having no Tv license and random **** like that. This bloke who's saying about peadophiles not going to prison and getting "help" before they commit the act i think is bloody stupid its just a waste of our money and they should be hung.
As for poor Maddie I think that if she gets found that she would be compleatly mad from the way she is probably been treated, I know this sounds bad but I hope she is dead because of the torment she would have for the rest of her life is a killer in itself. But i also seen the papers at the weekend with her mum and dad on the front with the two twins all happy and smiles i dont mean it funny but im sure if my child was abducted like that i wouldnt be having a good time with my other two children looking like nothing has happened, I dont really trust her husband i think he's a bit dodgy.
The point I was trying to make was parents these days worry far to much about their children than our parents did.
Todays parents don't let their kid out of their sight, or let them play anywhere other than their own back garden.[quote]
I can honestly say that is not true where i live we have kids of 4-5 playing chicken in the road the parents are inside watching emmerdale and eastenders! not giving a care in the world what them little ****s are up to, Ive had them play chicken with me many times so i stopped and knocked on where they lived and said that they should be watching what their kids are up to and if they play chicken again i will run them over which is fair enough, but since then they carry on so when they do it i beep my horn and stop and the parents soon come running out thinking ive ran them over.
I dont think parents of today are too over protective some yes but not all of them. They have a right to be cautious with peadophiles and weirdo's around in this country not knowing where they live because our government is so **** that they just dump them anywhere aslong as they aren't in prison so they can lock people away for having no Tv license and random **** like that. This bloke who's saying about peadophiles not going to prison and getting "help" before they commit the act i think is bloody stupid its just a waste of our money and they should be hung.
As for poor Maddie I think that if she gets found that she would be compleatly mad from the way she is probably been treated, I know this sounds bad but I hope she is dead because of the torment she would have for the rest of her life is a killer in itself. But i also seen the papers at the weekend with her mum and dad on the front with the two twins all happy and smiles i dont mean it funny but im sure if my child was abducted like that i wouldnt be having a good time with my other two children looking like nothing has happened, I dont really trust her husband i think he's a bit dodgy.
06 June 2007, 10:32 PM
#303
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are always different angles but in this case there's only one humane angle, that of the wellbeing of the little girl.
Negative empathy is a trait that can be cultured very well by the British. The very same people would speak to the press, go on TV etc if they found her and collected the reward, letting everyone know just how much they cared for her safe return all along.
Negative empathy is a trait that can be cultured very well by the British. The very same people would speak to the press, go on TV etc if they found her and collected the reward, letting everyone know just how much they cared for her safe return all along.
It is the difference between strategy and tactics. Just because we disagree on tactics does not mean to say we disagree on strategy.
Of course the girl's return is paramount - however for me personally, the tactics do not always seem aligned to the strategy.
As for the 'British' comment - I would suggest that many nations have empathy that can be swayed very postively or negatively by the media. Just think of Italian football reporting or the National Inquirer in the US!
06 June 2007, 10:46 PM
#304
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Logged Out
Posts: 10,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you'd do what exactly, to find her?
06 June 2007, 11:13 PM
#305
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Strathclyde
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's hope your daughter never gets separated from you. Say she's stood crying in the middle of a train station because she's got lost. Am I going to try and help her, escort her to a lost property kiosk or similar? Knowing that at any moment you might jump on me 
Far more chlldren are going to suffer from being ignored by members of the public who daren't get involved, than are abducted, because of gross overreactions by people like you. Hope I don't have to decide whether to push her out of the way of a bus!
Far more chlldren are going to suffer from being ignored by members of the public who daren't get involved, than are abducted, because of gross overreactions by people like you. Hope I don't have to decide whether to push her out of the way of a bus!
'People like me', 'gross over-reactions' - haha! Dont make me laugh. What would you know? Were you there? Did you see the event? No - then shut up and talking out your ****.
Since your into the 'scenario' mode like the other ****: Good point - she is alone, theres no one around her, shes crying - someone helps - of course that makes sense. My scenario: she is stood by her parents, shes happy as Larry, a strange woman touches here, shes scared and screams - I get a fright and react. Not over-react, otherwise I would have hit her. Do I know the womans intentions or motive - NO! Did she even approach me or my missus when shes clearly with us, er NO!
Your a **** like the other guy as well.
I hope something like this happens to the both of you. Lets see your reaction (over-reaction) then.
06 June 2007, 11:15 PM
#306
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Strathclyde
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My child is 2. Not your average age of an SN user?
My attitude is spot on thanks.
06 June 2007, 11:38 PM
#308
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Strathclyde
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ooh, name calling. Brilliant.
The point I was trying to make was parents these days worry far to much about their children than our parents did.
Todays parents don't let their kid out of their sight, or let them play anywhere other than their own back garden. When we were young, you'd be out playing without your parents knowing exactly where you were. You'd turn up when you got hungry.
An adult talking to a child or touching your child (obviously not in certain places) is not an act of kidnap. So if you were somewhere with your child, and someone said what a lovely child you had, and touched her totally innocently, you'd leap out of your seat and thump them one?
Example. When I lived with my parents house. There were plenty of young children running about on the back green. I'd regularly talk to the kids. Sometimes play football with them etc. Does that make me a predator???? NO. Totally innocent.
It only takes one idiot though to think that that is wrong, and a billy big bollox wants to punch you lights out.
PS. The pedophile story was simple pointing out how parents over react when anyone interacts with a child that isn't their own. Even look at a child and your a pedophile.
The point I was trying to make was parents these days worry far to much about their children than our parents did.
Todays parents don't let their kid out of their sight, or let them play anywhere other than their own back garden. When we were young, you'd be out playing without your parents knowing exactly where you were. You'd turn up when you got hungry.
An adult talking to a child or touching your child (obviously not in certain places) is not an act of kidnap. So if you were somewhere with your child, and someone said what a lovely child you had, and touched her totally innocently, you'd leap out of your seat and thump them one?
Example. When I lived with my parents house. There were plenty of young children running about on the back green. I'd regularly talk to the kids. Sometimes play football with them etc. Does that make me a predator???? NO. Totally innocent.
It only takes one idiot though to think that that is wrong, and a billy big bollox wants to punch you lights out.
PS. The pedophile story was simple pointing out how parents over react when anyone interacts with a child that isn't their own. Even look at a child and your a pedophile.
The point is the woman did not show me, my missus or wife any respect by simple taking it upon herself to 'check her out'. What is her motive, intention etc I dont know, because she didnt even say anything yet carried out a physical move for MY child. Now, what if my little girl did had an eye defect? Would the woman have whisked her away screaming 'blue murder'?? Then mob ascends on rightful caring parents for someone crying wolf? If you want to venture into scenarios - if I remember correctly, the woman Carr helped lure the 2 little girls for Huntly, Hindly for Brady etc... so excuse me, if I act like a caring parent and react (not over-react) and make a grab for woman and my child. Or, in your eyes was i supposed to stand back and say 'yeah, go ahead missus - take a blood sample and hair for DNA whilst your checking her out?'.
The people who were around us expressed alarm that someone even had done something like this - they were shocked, but not as much as we were.
I do admit bad things will happen, and thankfully there are good samaritans out there who will helps - but, only when the circumstances fit does it become a good act, as opposed to a suspicious one. Put the whole move in context of the situation, and I wonder what you would do?
I dont think parents worry more nowadays than in the past, but maybe theres better awareness of the nastiness thats out there there was years ago. To say they cared less is a bit cruel to say the least - time puts rose tinted specs on the past. Maybe in the little girls parents had worried abit more, she might not be missing/dead, a little boy and girl would have an older sister, and her parents wont be doing what they are doing now.
06 June 2007, 11:42 PM
#309
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Strathclyde
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06 June 2007, 11:48 PM
#310
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah found out already 
I know it's an emotional subject, but seriously take the comments on here with a pinch of salt... life's just too short!
All the best
06 June 2007, 11:58 PM
#311
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Strathclyde
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07 June 2007, 08:50 AM
#313
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Warrington
Posts: 4,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What you originally posted.
You seem to have moderated your position since then. A normal parent would say "Excuse me, please don't do that", or, "is there a problem?", not get someone in a headlock.
I guess we'll just have to agree to differ about how our kids interact with adults.
... a complete stranger (female) stopped my 2 yr old girl and lifted her chin and looked in her face closely. I grabbed her by the scruff of the neck ready to immobilise her and pulled away me daughter, ...
... I dont appreciate a total stranger even looking at my little girl, never mind touching her ... a less understanding parent would punch have your lights out in that scenario.
... I dont appreciate a total stranger even looking at my little girl, never mind touching her ... a less understanding parent would punch have your lights out in that scenario.
I guess we'll just have to agree to differ about how our kids interact with adults.
07 June 2007, 10:21 AM
#314
it s disgusting that people have decided that the parents are involved in her disappearance
tell me one parent that wouldnt travel anywhere in the world to try to do something to find their missing child
07 June 2007, 10:34 AM
#316
Sorry Sara, but i'm not with you on this one. I find it disgusting that the parents would leave 3 kids of a very young age on their own (and this wasnt the first time). There were baby sitting services available but they refused to use them..... there is something fishy and the whole truth has not come out yet.
No sympathy whatsoever from me.... some people dont deserve to be blessed with kids.
- Blaming the portuguese police doesnt make up for their guilt.
- Flying to Rome doesnt find their child
- Getting donations (vat free) is a little iffy to say the least
- Wasting huge amounts of police time is outrageous as it is all of us that have to pay for this through council and other taxes, they should be charged with negligence and made to pay for it.
- Praying ... ha ha ha - when has that EVER solved anything. Anyone that believes in god please explain the injustices of good people dying early or bad things happening to innocent people the world over.
Sure, it is sad that the girl is missing and things should be done to find her but why treat this any different to any other missing person just cos the little girl happens to be nice.
I would do everything in my powers as a parent to make sure that my girl was not put in that position and can not imagine ever leaving her alone when she was that age and even now at 11 it would not cross my mind.
No sympathy whatsoever from me.... some people dont deserve to be blessed with kids.
- Blaming the portuguese police doesnt make up for their guilt.
- Flying to Rome doesnt find their child
- Getting donations (vat free) is a little iffy to say the least
- Wasting huge amounts of police time is outrageous as it is all of us that have to pay for this through council and other taxes, they should be charged with negligence and made to pay for it.
- Praying ... ha ha ha - when has that EVER solved anything. Anyone that believes in god please explain the injustices of good people dying early or bad things happening to innocent people the world over.
Sure, it is sad that the girl is missing and things should be done to find her but why treat this any different to any other missing person just cos the little girl happens to be nice.
I would do everything in my powers as a parent to make sure that my girl was not put in that position and can not imagine ever leaving her alone when she was that age and even now at 11 it would not cross my mind.
07 June 2007, 10:48 AM
#317
no one is disputing the fact that they left 3 children and lost one of them because of this. but no matter what they have done, they did not intentially set out to cause any harm.
they are dealing it in the only way they know how..................and none of what they have done will hinder the search for Maddie. it just means that a lot more people know about her now than they would of otherwise.
what if a woman fell asleep with a newborn baby and suffocated it by accident. we all know that this can happen but it does not stop mums doing it. it doesnt mean that the mother did it on purpose and shouldnt be able to grieve for the baby
they are dealing it in the only way they know how..................and none of what they have done will hinder the search for Maddie. it just means that a lot more people know about her now than they would of otherwise.
what if a woman fell asleep with a newborn baby and suffocated it by accident. we all know that this can happen but it does not stop mums doing it. it doesnt mean that the mother did it on purpose and shouldnt be able to grieve for the baby
07 June 2007, 11:03 AM
#321
yes they did, but they thought it was safe. i have seen a photo taken from the same balcony that the family were in, you can see the bar very easily. they obviousley thought this was safe enough, sadly this time it wasnt
it doesnt mean that they shouldnt do everything they feel will get her back though
it doesnt mean that they shouldnt do everything they feel will get her back though
07 June 2007, 11:04 AM
#322
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tellins, Home of Super Leagues finest, and where a "split" is not all it seems.
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh well it was a mistake - hey we all make them - tea and sympathy all round then...
To me the mistake they made can be compared to mistakenly pressing the red button in a missle silo...
To me the mistake they made can be compared to mistakenly pressing the red button in a missle silo...
07 June 2007, 11:09 AM
#323
I am sorry but I dont see what 'them' being with friends and family has to do with the safety of their children.
The facts are:
a) there was a babysitting service (maybe put in place because 99% of parents are responsible)
b) they didnt want to pay for it
c) this was not a one off
d) they said they checked 'regularly' - wtf does regularly mean? .... I clean the windows on my house regularly once a year whether they need it or not. That does not mean frequently.
e) when have you ever been abroad and they have not welcomed children at the restaurant with open arms? If anything it is the best way to get great service from the restaurant.
The facts are:
a) there was a babysitting service (maybe put in place because 99% of parents are responsible)
b) they didnt want to pay for it
c) this was not a one off
d) they said they checked 'regularly' - wtf does regularly mean? .... I clean the windows on my house regularly once a year whether they need it or not
. That does not mean frequently.e) when have you ever been abroad and they have not welcomed children at the restaurant with open arms? If anything it is the best way to get great service from the restaurant.
07 June 2007, 11:12 AM
#325
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have little time or love/respect for the parents, i have some sympathy but really i only really care about Maddie.
Maddie may have paid for their mistake with her life, i hope not, but being blunt it is likely to be the case.
Sarah i know you have kids as well so will understand this, Whilst i may not be the best parent or claim to be i would not leave my kids in a strange room, in a strange resort/location in a strange country unatended by a trusted adults. No , never, nada! as simple as that. I cannot imagine how Maddies parents can think any diifferently or consider what they did to be right and proper.
I believe that they did not intend for this to happen but they created the circumstances that lead to it. If that room was empty or an adult had been with Maddie then things would be different.
I have heard;
"Whilst on holiday people relax and let their guard down" - absolute rubbish, especially with young kids. Strange surroundings and hazards to contend with i am more vigilant. My kids are not wrapped up in cotton wool either, i take precautiuons i see as fit and proper to ensure their saftey as best i can because young kids are not able to do so themselves, they need to learn to by experiencing but only over time and at the right time.
07 June 2007, 11:35 AM
#327
[quote=Paul Habgood;6994361]
Sarah i know you have kids as well so will understand this, Whilst i may not be the best parent or claim to be i would not leave my kids in a strange room, in a strange resort/location in a strange country unatended by a trusted adults. No , never, nada! as simple as that. I cannot imagine how Maddies parents can think any diifferently or consider what they did to be right and proper.
I believe that they did not intend for this to happen but they created the circumstances that lead to it. If that room was empty or an adult had been with Maddie then things would be different.
**************************************************
i agree with everything you say there and not just because you are a mod.
but i believe that Maddie would have been taken at some stage of the holiday. it looks like she had been selected for whatever reason
i do think that the family will face some sort of charges at some stage for their negligence though.
i just want Mddie found, its really upsetting
Sarah i know you have kids as well so will understand this, Whilst i may not be the best parent or claim to be i would not leave my kids in a strange room, in a strange resort/location in a strange country unatended by a trusted adults. No , never, nada! as simple as that. I cannot imagine how Maddies parents can think any diifferently or consider what they did to be right and proper.
I believe that they did not intend for this to happen but they created the circumstances that lead to it. If that room was empty or an adult had been with Maddie then things would be different.
**************************************************
i agree with everything you say there and not just because you are a mod.
but i believe that Maddie would have been taken at some stage of the holiday. it looks like she had been selected for whatever reason
i do think that the family will face some sort of charges at some stage for their negligence though.
i just want Mddie found, its really upsetting
07 June 2007, 11:46 AM
#330
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Disco, Disco!
Posts: 21,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=sarasquares;6994424]
Sarah i know you have kids as well so will understand this, Whilst i may not be the best parent or claim to be i would not leave my kids in a strange room, in a strange resort/location in a strange country unatended by a trusted adults. No , never, nada! as simple as that. I cannot imagine how Maddies parents can think any diifferently or consider what they did to be right and proper.
I believe that they did not intend for this to happen but they created the circumstances that lead to it. If that room was empty or an adult had been with Maddie then things would be different.
**************************************************
i agree with everything you say there and not just because you are a mod.
but i believe that Maddie would have been taken at some stage of the holiday. it looks like she had been selected for whatever reason
i do think that the family will face some sort of charges at some stage for their negligence though.
i just want Mddie found, its really upsetting
Agreed, but the parent created a golden opportunity for her to be taken, thats the rub.
Whilst you cannot keep your eyes on them every second you do minimse the chances as best you can.
Sarah i know you have kids as well so will understand this, Whilst i may not be the best parent or claim to be i would not leave my kids in a strange room, in a strange resort/location in a strange country unatended by a trusted adults. No , never, nada! as simple as that. I cannot imagine how Maddies parents can think any diifferently or consider what they did to be right and proper.
I believe that they did not intend for this to happen but they created the circumstances that lead to it. If that room was empty or an adult had been with Maddie then things would be different.
**************************************************
i agree with everything you say there and not just because you are a mod.
but i believe that Maddie would have been taken at some stage of the holiday. it looks like she had been selected for whatever reason
i do think that the family will face some sort of charges at some stage for their negligence though.
i just want Mddie found, its really upsetting
Whilst you cannot keep your eyes on them every second you do minimse the chances as best you can.