Iwan

I can't see what the problem is, at the end of the day they fcuked up. As a result a little girl is probably lying dead in a ditch somewhere after being reamed by paedos, flying round the world on a massive jolly hardly constitutes "suffering" on anything like the same scale does it?

They're guilty of negligence plain and simple. People probably wouldn't feel the same animosity towards them if they hadn't been jetting around criticising pretty much everyone except themselves, whenever someone mentions this they come out with the same old b0ll0cks "that's a bit inappropriate" or "these comments aren't helpful" etc.

Don't forget they have 2 other kids, is it not worth looking into the possibility that they may be at risk too?

TelBoy

But hold on. Ok it was unfamiliar, as it would necessarily have been on a foreign holiday, but it wasn't just some rough Portuguese street, it was a relatively upmarket holiday camp which you would have HOPED it was safe to assume was free from child abductors. To what extent the room was unsecure i'm not sure, if the window was forced then what other reasonable steps were they supposed to have taken? They were relaxed, their guard was down, they aren't willfully evil parents to my knowledge, they just did what millions of other parents on holiday have done before them. I think it has been a sufficient wake-up call for parents everywhere, without this high profile witchhunt of the McCanns.

TelBoy

From what, exactly?

Devildog

Yes, I remember that and yes, you are absolutely correct, you cannot protect kids against a determined abductor.

What you can do is take reasonable precautions to reduce the risk of it happening.

In my book (and I see many on here agree) repeatedly (by their own admission) leaving your children unattended in a ground floor room, which backed onto the street, out of their line of sight, in a foreign country, does not IMO equate to reasonable precaution.

And as someone has said above, its not the parents who deserve the sympathy - its Maddie herself, who's ordeal has arisen due to a) the actions of her abductors and b) the failure of her parents to properly look after her.

mrtheedge2u2

I understand that they "assumed" it was safe and that they were in an upmarket place, but that does not mean, when it comes to your children, you sit back and take risks you would not take at home.

I am sure there are a lot of people on here that lock their doors when they go home because they assume, correctly, that the world is not a safe place.

Anyone who goes on holiday, whether it be in a hotel, campsite, whatever, must apply the common sense attitude that "I am not in familiar territory and must act accordingly"

I am not just talking about kidnappings, could be many things like fire etc.

They put themselves before that little girl.

If I run over a little girl in my car because I was not thinking straight or talking on the phone I would be charged with a criminal offence. Not the same per se, but they have, more than like , cost a girl very dearly because of their neglect. It is sad, but true.

TelBoy

That's what i'm saying though, you probably DO put your kids at similar risks at home sometimes. Unless you're one of the over-protective cottonwool wrappers. It's oh SO easy to pinpoint this particular example as "neglect" but in the scheme of things far far risker situations occur up and down the country day in day out. Unless you're convincing yourself this isn't the case?

But i bet you haven't signed a petition against Mrs Bloggs of Church Road, have you?

David Lock

No one on here, including myself, is saying that the parents were not at fault although one can have an endless, and largely pointless, debate on just how careless/negligent they were.

Of course Maddie is the real one who is (or has) suffered but the parents deserve a huge amount of sympathy as well.

But where has the humanity gone in people that want to prosecute them? What good could possibly come out of a prosecution (that could well fail) aside from further destroying the family? dl

CrisPDuk

It was an upmarket holiday camp, which provided child supervision facilities, which the Mcanns couldn't even be bothered to take advantage of

If the McCanns were a less well off working class couple from some council estate in Manchester or somewhere, the press would have been on their case about this particular point from the off

TelBoy

Fair point Mr CrispyDuck, that's been my single biggest criticism of the McCanns throughout this sorry tale, their failure to use the child listening service. Has there been an adequate explanation of their reasons for this do we know?

Snazy

Spot on mate, could not agree more.
Based on UK statistics, up to 8 children in the UK are reported missing every hour. Do the maths and work out how many have gone missing since Maddie did. Its shocking, and the worst part is, no one knows any of their names.
Most return safely, however some dont.

As for the apartment she was in, apparently the door was left unlocked. For all anyone knows, she could have woken, let herself out, and walked back to the beach or something.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

David,

the point of prosecution is not necessarily punitive, it is to be clearly apply the law evenly to all concerned.

What should the law say?

It is OK to leave your children unsupervised if they consequently get abducted because everyone will feel sorry for you.

The law is clear regarding supervision and negligence and it applies to everyone whether their child gets abducted or not.

They McCanns are in clear breach of the law.

The analogy is that if I was speeding and got in an accident that killed my child. Everyone might feel sorry for me. Everyone might say, it's OK most people speed at some time.

However not matter how much sympathy there may be for me I would still be in breach of the law and still subject to prosecution.

Or let's say the McCanns had a babysitter who then went out to the same restaurant and left the children. Would anyone think that was even remotely appropriate? OF COURSE NOT!

Devildog

Agreed

That's where we will have to agree to differ. I don't feel one ounce of sympathy towards the parents. My thoughts are with Maddie, and her siblings that may well have lost a sister.

mrtheedge2u2

I look at Maddie and think "travesty"

I look at the parents and think "soddin irresponsible idiot's who need a slap"

David Lock

But we all hear about "crimes" where prosecution is not forthcoming as "it would not be in the public interest".

Some weeks ago I heard a Child Protection Lawyer, who seemed to know her onions, saying that it was not, as some would assume, a clear case of neglect as it is unreasonable to expect parents to guard against abduction. dl

stilover

Totally agree.
Because the parents are Doctors and seen as `respectable parents` then they seem to be getting away with neglecting there children. The media would crucify any other family.

I've signed the petition to get them investigated.

Where's the World tour at today? Or are they just sat on the beach sunning themselves blaming everyone else.

The Snug Rhino

Then theres something wrong with you - how can their stupidity negate the sympathy due in their current position?????

Flatcapdriver

Tel, the other problem is that initial reports stated that the windows had been forced open - they hadn't. However, the McCanns did leave the windows/doors unlocked which looked out onto the street behind which is asking for trouble.

As sad as it is for the child, the good thing that will come out of this is that parents who found this sort of child care acceptable in the past, will now exercise greater caution.

The McCann's excuse all along has been that they behaved in a way that thousands of other parents have done and by extension, that is acceptable. Its not. End of.

CrisPDuk

Easy, because if it wasn't for their stupidity they wouldn't be in their current situation

CrisPDuk

Not one parent I know believes that leaving three babies alone in a house whilst they go out for a meal with friends is an acceptable way to behave Obviously I'm moving in the wrong circles

If I were the social services I would be checking to see how many more within the McCann's circle of friends do his sort of thing

davegtt

They might have been partly to blame for the outcome but it doesnt mean you cannot feel for someone for losing a child.

Devildog

Mark,

I can understand the fact that the situation is highly traumatic for them.

I can fully understand why people will be sympathetic towards their plight.

But I'm not, and I can guarantee you I'm far from alone in that.

If that shocks you, then perhaps its you that needs to figure out the fact that not everone thinks as you do, that people have differing views, rather than simply stating that there is something "wrong" with me.

In all of this I hope they find Maddie, alive and well, for her sake and those of her sisters and the rest of the family.

And I hope that her parents, two seemingly intelligent people, learn from this, whether prosecuted or not.

If they don't find her, or if she is dead, it will be an absolute tragedy, of that there is no question. It is an horrific event full stop.

But the parents won't have my sympathy and I make no apology for that.

Flatcapdriver

Of course it doesn't Dave. Nor does it mean we have to condone their actions on a tide of Diana like wave of sympathy.

CrisPDuk

Speaking for myself, I've never said I don't feel sympathy for them, my sympathy is just tempered by the fact that a their current situation has been brought about by their own irresponsibility

My ympathy lies almost entirely with the child I'm afraid

davegtt

Oh yeah I agree, in fact Im almost sick to the teeth of this story now tbh. Just dont understand when people say they cannot feel for ones loss of a child. Whether it be their own fault or not. Nobody intended for it to happen and you shouldnt have to be expected to worry about child abductors. Shows the way of the world though today eh

Devildog

Why not?

I can fully understand that they will be in a place that words cannot describe. But I don't "feel" for them.

Of course no one should have to worry about child abductors, but we do.

The fact that they left windows open and unlocked is just beyond comprehension (for me and a few others at least)

Christ, it just gets worse!

Flatcapdriver

Dave, I think the lack of sympathy stems from the fact that from the outset the parents and their friends and family immediately went on the attack. If you look at the sequence of events, they initially stated that they were checking on their kids every fifteen minutes, then it went to half an hour and eventually an hour - which was it?

Then their family immediately had a pop at the Portuguese Police saying that they didn't arrive for two hours, when in actual fact it was ten minutes and then they weren't doing enough etc etc. It was always someone else's fault.

I could cite further examples but you can see why people would lack sympathy for the McCanns.

Iwan

Neglect?

paul-s

I can see why people would lack sympathy for the parents but I cant understand why some have to be quite so spiteful towards them and their plight.

TelBoy

See, that's exactly my point. You really think there's ANY chance they're going to make the same mistake again??? Unless you have proof that they are inherently incapable parents (and from that i do NOT mean being the victims of one hugely unfortunate incident), then that clearly isn't going to happen!!!

TelBoy

Agree. I assume its because it's thought they're somehow "enjoying" all the publicity, the trips to foreign countries, the free jet travel, the meetings with the Pope, the predicted "Our Story" royalties. If this is neglect, by Christ the courts are going to be busy with all the other *genuine* cases of "neglect" that go unchallenged in our society.