RedScoob

I had a "play" with what I can only assume was a standard Astra VXR, it seemed to go pretty well... Straight line speed seemed pretty good, it was only when we navigated an awkward off-camber at the exit to a roundabout that his lack of traction and handling became apparent. He lost a bit of ground there (both on the braking and exit). They seem like nice cars though, agressive styling and decent performance.... God only knows why these manufacturers don't offer the option of AWD though, it may not seem necessary under "test" conditions but it is a useful safety net in the real world.
Flame suit on.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Simple mate, FWD is cheap, compact (so passengers get more room), simple and less costly to run/maintain. Also, the latest high performance GTis aside, for the majority of the time, the majority of the people would not know the difference, or care!

ns04

RedScoob

I agree 100%. The way I see it, is dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks. They've done a good job with the VXR, and it obviously is very popular with the targeted demographic. Would I swap? No thanks....

terzo204

Must be in the same ball park, dunno.

VXRBOY

I've had 2 scoobs wrx and a wrx ppp the VXR leaves them both. The only thing that it lacks is the flat 4 burble, but even in the scoob it needed an afterburner vortex to make it sound good. And the guy who said the only way to race is from a standstill??????? what???? traffic light GP anybody, bet you race saxo'x etc.
If were talking standard i guess were not taking price into account? a stage three VXR which is quicker in the real work than an STI is still about 5-6 grand cheaper. The lack of traction off the line is more than made up for by the lack of tranmission loss!
Also the VXR was taken off the top gear board because the version they put on there was not a real VXR, i believe they have recently taken it around again and it was nearly 2 seconds quicker.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Quicker in the real world? When you havn't driven an sti? In the real world, traction and predictability win hands down. A 190bhp was handful in the wet, god knows what the vxr is like.

I do like the astra vxr's, and I think £ for £, not a lot can beat it. But, it's a vauxhall, and it's supposed to be cheap! I'd rather work a bit harder and save a bit longer to buy a new sti rather than an vxr.

VXRBOY

I have driven an STI my brother used to have one, i used to drive that when he was away. Some may get blown away by that 4k rev kick in the back form an STI but the VXR accelerates just as quickly but smoother. And before the scoobs i had a turbo coupe which was around 190bhp like you said, but believe me the 2 cars are poles apart, the old coupe used to limit traction by cutting revs the new cars are very different. I could have an STI tomorrow but been there done that just wanted something different. That stigma that people seem to place on other cars that are not subaru's is a little dated now and somewhat misplaced.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Like I said, both good car's. One slightly better than the other. (my opinion obviously) Check the TG lap times. There isn't an astra VXR, but there is a vectra vxr.
Impreza = 1:30.1
VXR = 1:35.3

Top Gear | The Stig's lap times
Quite a difference eh?
I'm saying take these times as gospel, but it gives you an idea.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

The VXR, like the Focus ST has to be electronically restrained in 1st and 2nd so as not to shred its front tyres. That's before you start with any mods. A scooby can deploy all of its power and torque in all of its gears. Even a std Scooby would take a 300bhp Astra to 60 (1st and second gear) That's the NSL so race over! A PPP Scooby and an Evo FQ300 actually beat an F1 car to 27mph (the point where it got its traction) in an Autocar test.

A 200-300 bhp 4wd car is a better propostion than a 300bhp fwd car. End of

VXRBOY

The astra used to be on and it was about 1.33, that is not the real VXR. So the new time which i imagine will shortly be on is less than a second behind the world conquering STI, and that's for a car that is supposed to be poo at corners!

QUOTE ' The VXR, like the Focus ST has to be electronically restrained in 1st and 2nd so as not to shred its front tyres. That's before you start with any mods. A scooby can deploy all of its power and torque in all of its gears. Even a std Scooby would take a 300bhp Astra to 60 (1st and second gear) That's the NSL so race over! A PPP Scooby and an Evo FQ300 actually beat an F1 car to 27mph (the point where it got its traction) in an Autocar test!!'

errrr no a standard wrx is about 5.9 0-60 a stage 3 VXR has been timed at 5.4 which is only 0.1 slower than an STI. What does NSL mean?? And if you think you can put all the power down form a 4wd car at all times you are mistaken, transmission loss can be anywhere between 10-30%, so 0-60 might ne a challenge but if you had a 300 bhp scoob and a 300 fwd car the fwd will probably beat it.

Jimpreza

The vxr and subaru are both good but in different areas. I am thinking of modding my 2003 wrx or biting the bullet and get a brand new hot hatch (prob vxr). Just a bit bored with the styling of my Subaru and I have worked out i can get a brand new vxr for about what i am paying for my wrx. This takin into account part ex cheaper ins and servicing etc. Got to admit they do look superb and is the best looking hatch. Had a test drive of the new type r and the rx8 both seemed a bit slow compared to my wrx.

Jimpreza

As stated I do love the vxr but a 300bhp awd is always gonna win a 0-60 against a 300bhp fwd. Unless I am drivin

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

So, you're comparing a stage 3 tuned astra againt a std Sti and it's still coming off worse! Well done!

NSL national speed limt- the point at which a contest is legally over!

From a standstill a 300bhp scoooby would get such a lead the astra would not catch up. The effect of transmision losses is greatly exagerated generally and doesn't anount to nearly a much as who got the power on fractionally first!

If it rains, forget it!

Ns04

VXRBOY

I was looking forward to the new CTR, as it promised lots, but reviews have not been so good and the guys over on the CTR forums still rate the outgoing model over the new one. Go and drive all of the competition. I would like to try the new Leon myself to see if thats any good, easily tunable to 300bhp.

VXRBOY

No if your talking lap times i am talking standard. Of course 4wd will be quicker off the line, but when does that matter? If your happy with your car then great. But you cannot dismiss other cars because they are not a Subaru or 4wd. I bet a lot of people buy scoobs over evo's because the cost of evo's is high. Then the cost of a VXR with realtive peformance is excellent.
And from my experience transmission loss is quite an issue. I used to have CTR's keeping up with me in my pp'd wrx, not anymore.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

ANY FWD car over 200bhp will have to play 2nd fiddle to a 4wd/RWD car as a performance car. Sure, they'll go well when rolling in 3rd, but in performance stakes you're already above 60mph then, which on the road is too late. Then there is cornering, what happens when it rains, the road get bumpy etc...


Ns04

Jimpreza

Yeh never thought of the Leon. The only thing that puts me off is a mate had a cupra r and the interior used to rattle like mad. I used to take the **** outta himuntil he pointed out it only rattles the same as mine.

I friend who has a type r (the old) races me in my standard 2003 wrx. I pull away slightly off tight roundabouts. But when we both go from anything above 60mph he always pulls away from me slightly. Both our cars are standard btw.

VXRBOY

but nobody actually drives below 60 all the time on wet bumpy corners do they. You are actually saying that you only drive from 0-60 as quick as you can then stop!? If we did i would have a bike. I think most people would rate real world overtaking power as a more usable indicator as a fast car.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Very true, 30-70 is a good indcation. I'd go with the Scooby on that one too! Unlesss you're still comparing a stage 3 Astra with a std Sti. If thats the case, put a stage 3 Sti up against it and see what happens! It's not just on bumpy or wet roads as well, you try putting fulll power down in second or third in the astra on a roundabout, for example. I can, even with 320 bhp.

Ns04

Jimpreza

I suppose your both right. Depends if u wanna cane your car from a standstill or drop a few cogs for overtaking. Thats why I disn't like the type r and rx8 they weren't very good for overtaking i.e in gear acceleration.

VXRBOY

What i am saying is that a std VXR is a match for a std STI a stage 3 VXR which is still much cheaper to buy and run than an STI is quicker than one. As for racing around roundabouts, your either mad or live in Milton keynes.
Gotta kip now.

Doidge

I have owned a Civic Type-r, Focus RS and have just got my First scoob, a 2002 WRX with prodrive ecu, exhaust. I have driven a VXR, very nice car although was definately not as fast as my Focus or the WRX. Probably about even with the Civic if not a bit quicker.

Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

A friend of mine at work has the Miltek system on his VXR Astra and it sounds lush. Pops on gear change and isn't OTT.

If I was to leave Subaru's I'd consider one of these to be honest.

He is a member on vxronline.co.uk Think his user name is Alexf?

Steve

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Torque Steer must be your closest friend at the mo ...

TX.

[edit - sorry Tom, see you've been ragged on that a few times already ]

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

How do you know what the t losses are on a 4 wheel drive car? 300bhp vs 300bhp ... would be close as 4wd would scoot away initially then 2wd would probably catch up. Throw in a few twisties though ...

TX.

Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

Was that directed towards my way TX?

Steve

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yes, but the crucial point is that an STi can deploy ALL of its power in pretty much any conditions. The VXR can't even as std, let alone when its modified above an beyond 300bhp.

As a good value for money straight line tool, the VXR is great, but as a point to point car, it has its limitations (as do ALL high powered FWD drive cars), hence the price difference between it and the STi


Ns04

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Mate, that's your opinion, but it's wrong. If it were true though, don't you think vauxhall would be making a big deal about it?
It's like comparing two 100m sprinters. One has the correct studded, grippy foot wear, the other is wearing stiletos! I know who my money would be on!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Actually, it's more like comparing a sprinter wearing stiletos with a greyhound wearing studded footwear.

Ns04

Put the same driver in an Astra VXR then an Sti and they will be quicker in the latter every time.

tomfraser

well said mate.
when my car was standard i have alot of races with sti,s and it was always even matched. i have raced 2 since and i overtook them with ease,yes the scoobs are better from standstill but believe me the vxr soon catches up

the torque steer is now that bad really