dpb

not on paper

but it all depends on the driver and of course the conditions

T-gro

Well, having just changed my AST'd and whitelined Type-r for an Elise, I can tell you, it CERTAINLY has more outright grip.

I'll dig it out later, but Autocar ran a Grip Challenge a few years back. The Elise had, if I recall correctly, the most lateral grip, apart from a Caterham. If you ever see a slalom or g force test in which a Subaru beats an Elise, I want to see it, it will be a new experience.

It is lighter, but it also has an engine in the middle, not way over the front axle, and a lower COG, superior suspension (arguably), much better body control, and a more neutral natural balance, all of which contribute to better grip.

Oh, and to answer Andy, on the road, there are almost no conditions in which the Elise will match the Scoob for speed (drivers being equal). The Scoob has too much torque, too much traction and a more flexible limit.

T-gro

Actually, I've just found the March 01 edition of EVO, where they run their Fast Car challenge, with a 118 bhp Elise.

The Elise gets 3rd in the lateral g contest, behind the R500 and 911 turbo. It's score of 0.79 compares with the Evo6's of 0.76 and the WRX's of 0.72.

It is fastest in the slalom, with 6.61 seconds, compared to 7.26 for the WRX and 7.37 for the Evo.

It was second on the track in the dry handling test behind the 911 turbo, although the R500 and Evo6 were not available. They estimated the Evo's time as over a second slower.

The fact is, if you make a very light, very low car with it's weight low down and between the wheels, you are going to have a very grippy car (set up correctly). This is common sense, this is logic.

In most cases, it's not going to be as fast as an Impreza, but that's not because of outright grip.

Shark Man

With regards to the Impreza vs Elise handling.

I'd go out on a limb and say a P11B Primera Sport is a better handling and balanced chassis than a Impreza. I'm serious. However the Primera is no where near as fast, and overall grip is lower.

For that fact I have never regarded the Impreza's chassis as very well balanced or "that" good in the handling. Still, its a 4door saloon car for £15K (ok £20K, if you paid UK prices )...what did you expect? You get what you pay for....unless its an Aston Martin, in which case you get a horrible handling car that falls to bits and costs the earth (thats my only exception ).

It's something that has made me realise that EVO mag reviews sometimes talk utters tosh...or they suddenly change their mind a year or so later (i.e the Impreza is fab, its great, oh, hang on, no its not, its a bit overrated actually).

swtmerce

I don't think the Cayman will have been trying too hard. I recently played with the latest version Boxster S at a Bedford trackday. I was in my STi v4 which has 302 bhp (but with the longer ratios of a UK type gearbox rather than the original JDM box) and there was very little between our cars down the main straights of the GT circuit.

HOWY

What are they like on cross country corners I wonder?

Martin2005

I don't think this contradicts what I said.

The Subaru generates more grip. The Elise handles better.

If the Elise weighed 1.4 tonnes how fast do you think it would corner?

You are getting grip and handling mixed up.

Cheers

Martin

Gutmann pug

You have obviously never been on a track day

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Another reason why the classic Impreza is the best!

funkyspider

'The best' at what ? .. being a 12year old car driven by anyone with 3k to spend ?

Agreed, it's far superior than any newage model at doing that

osborne

Alldepents on opinion.... i had the choice between a bug eye wrx i liked or my 1994. I chose the 1994 wrx. pereferd the styling and i happy with my choice.

swtmerce

Well, on the flat, non-cambered, kart-like track that is Bedford, the Boxster carried a lot more speed into corners than my car. I would say it would be the same on country roads. It's a mid-engined, low slung, wide tyred, highly engineering sportscar. I love my Impreza for what it is and the fun it provides for little money, but it doesn't compare to any kind of Porsche.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hey, mine is 7 years young!!

It would also be worth somewhat more than some new age cars on account of the very low mileage and low number of previous owners................oh and the fact that it has 320bhp, which should give our friend in the Cayman something to think about!!

Ns04

Gary C

I take it you mean that the force required to overcome the grip of the tyres is higher in the scoob but as it has more weight so grip is lost at a lower angular velocity.

Often, when people talk about a car having more grip, they mean it can corner at a higher speed, but as its lighter its applying less force through the tyre contact patch.

Handling is partly the ability to exploit the mechanical grip of the car.

And my 1989 911 turns up soon and I don't care that its slower than my STi or EVo were, it looks and sounds great

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

IMHO handling is a subjective term. Grip, traction etc... are all objective characteristics and can all be quantitifed.

Handling is about how a car 'feels' and how much of a car's objective ability you feel comfortable exploiting.

Ns04

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Not a huge amount in it around Knockhill with equal drivers in the dry. STi has the edge due primarily to top end speed along the straights and traction out of the hairpin. Between a standard WRX and a standard Elise, there wouldn't be much in it, thoigh the Elises brakes and tyres would last a lot longer before overheating. A standard Exige would be about the same pace as an standard STi though, as it more than makes up for it around the corners what it loses in a straight line.

A popular mod for older Elises/Exiges is to fit a Honda engine (around 190 - 220 bhp) and 6 speed gearbox - not only is it quicker around the corners, but also in a straight line. There are also supercharger kits for these as well, bring the power up closer to 300bhp!

John

Infractfree

I was going to mention that if they are so slow why do I see them overtaking UK registered Imprezas on the Nurburgring so often?

Is it that they are in fact faster cars overall other than in a straight line drag? Or is it just that the Impreza drivers are crap?

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Anyone else remember the 1993 (or was it '94) Autocar handling review when the Mondeo beat the Impreza (UK turbo)?

Simon

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Back on the topic of Impreza versus Cayman S (Not elise or whatever)

I happened to have play with one of these one night. I had at the time a well modified UK turbo 2000 classic running circa 360bhp with a six speed UK gearbox. Late one night i just happened to come off a roundabout onto a dual carriage way side by side with a Cayman S. We both gave it a boot full. Now while I knew I had the quicker car I was suprised that it stayed as close to me as it did. By the time I started to brake and the end of the carriage way which is about 2 miles long I was only ahead of him by a couple of car lengths. I was giving all my car had. So this statement of you leaving one for dead or whatever is utter nonsense. The driver was blatently not trying too hard.

Daz

LordOfTheRings

everything to this fool handles like a barge compared to his WRX

Daveo

Your comment is harsh and uncalled for.

If you think all scoobs are driven by chavs then f**k off to another forum.

Daveo

What does that prove? When I take my wagon to the ring I don't care what overtakes me, even though I'll probably be in a 'faster' car.

The ring is all down to driver prowess/track knowledge, not what car you're driving.

Martin WRX22

Right, who`s seen me out & about in my motor then.

Also, why was`nt it posted on, "Was it you?"

Infractfree

That will be the second question I asked. Answer Impreza drivers are crap. Thanks for setting me straight. Must be something to do with having an understeering all wheel drive car rather than a tasty mid-engined Porsche.

Also I seriously doubt you are in a faster car than many people who visit the 'ring.

Daveo

Can I just ask you one question? If you think that scoobys are crap and understeer, and prefer porsches, then why are you on this forum?

Are you bored?

There is an increasing number of people that come on to this bbs (albeit briefly as luck would have it) and post antagonising, anti scooby crap.

I don't like Toyota Celicas, but I don't go on the Celica BBS posting that all celicas are driven by Nicky Clarke lookalikes.

You need to think about why you're here. If it's just to wind up, then grow up.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I witnessed a few tasty mid engined Porsches getting overtaken by a girl in a Transit van at the ring!!

Doesn't matter what you've got, it's who's behind the wheel that counts!

Smifster

I was there when she was doing that!

I agree it is to do with the knoweldge of the track, rather than the car. That year I went in a C4S and we got over taken by an Astra?!!

In Easter, I took my WRX and did what I thought was a fairly decent 9.13 round it. Clare Howard from northloop.co.uk went round in 9.04 in her Clio 172. She goes a lot more than me and knows the circuit a lot better than me.

I go to the ring to enjoy it (like everyone else). People will be faster than me and I will be faster than some people (inc 911's) - so what?? For people to say that Impreza drivers are crap need to grow up and find a different forum.

carl

Allow me to clarify: Walter Rohrl is faster round the Nurburgring in a Cayman S than he is in a 996 Carrera. The reason they didn't fit the Cayman S with an LSD was so that it wasn't faster round the 'ring than the 997 Carrera. So the assertion that a Cayman S is "slow" is incorrect.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I agree on both counts mate! My comments were directed at the person who inferred that scoobies must be slower on account of the fact that they didn't see any overtaking Cayman's at the ring!

Porsche are getting rather good at making cheaper cars that are snapping at the heels of the 911!!

Daveo

I think he was inferring that it was slower than his scooby, not slow in general.