New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Nuff said- I know what those ******* are like;! I've played Resident Evil 4



Ns04

hux309

Have to agree in part with what's been said...all these emmmets can be a right pain in the ****, hairing around like they have a lit firework up their are, being too busy or self important to pay any attention to anyone or anything gah

But i am grateful for what they have brought to the economy as cornwall has been on an incredibly rapid growth spurt for a few years and i hope it continues so long as it doesn't end up spoiling the place

House prices are however sheer madness...yes some prices are in the £150,000 mark but you shure as hell wouldn't want to live there, anywhere decent is now in excess of £200,000 easy and with wages being the way they are it's near damn imposibble for a first time local buyer to get on the market

Personally they should only allow a certain percentage of houses in any discrict to be holiday homes that way come winter it keeps things afloat for us locals

Btw the group is called an gof....

Michael An Gof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MooseRacer

Cornwall is part of the UK, just not part of England

Having lived there for 25years and moved away I will move back at some stage....no doubt to be classed as an outsider stealing local accomodation.

Despite flatcap's assertions, there is a problem providing affordable housing to locals. £150,000 for a house is peanuts to most but unachievable to many in Cornwall.

CBA toread the link about the Cornish Nationalists...no doubt ridiculous drivel.

PeteT

It's exactly the same here in the Lake District. No one with a 'normal' job can afford to live in the National Park and have to drive or be bussed in by their employers and drive or be bussed back out again at the end of the day.
Now the Lake District has been a tourist destination since Wordsworth's day and only a fool would argue that the area doesn't need tourists and holiday homes, but what really breaks my heart is the houses that are bought as second homes and only occupied for 6 weeks of the year. Hundreds of houses around here stand empty for the vast majority of the year when they could be lived in by families with children at the local schools, young couples or retired people who could contribute to the local community.

Anyone who buys a 'second home' for 6 weeks use a year is IMHO stealing it from the local community and it might as well be bulldozed.

corradoboy

I was in Cornwall last week as this story broke, and the ordinary Cornish people treat the threat with the contempt it deserved. We ate at 15 whilst we were down there (over-priced poncy titbits (although interestingly flavourful)) and must point out that the place is a charity, benefiting local underprivileged youths both cooking and serving, and making no profit for JO whatsoever. They also source predominantly local produce.

Padstein is one of my favourite places to visit, but preferably out of season when it's quiet. RS has done a lot to liven up the place and bring it into the 21st century, yet without spoiling its quaint olde worlde charm IMHO. I haven't eaten at any of his places as I prefer The Slipway in Port Isaac for fish'n'chips. Just last week I spent several content hours sipping tea at Greens Cafe overlooking the town, watching the world pass by and chatting with both locals and tourists alike.

The same property dilemma exists in the Yorkshire Dales, with a proportion of new properties now having to be sold only to people with a required number of years living and/or working within the region.

Matteeboy

Corradoboy - sounds like you know the area quite well.
I know the head chef, 2nd chef and manager of 15 (used to supply them and advise them on certain products) and while much is locally sourced, a lot comes from Italy!

corradoboy

Been visiting the area for over 30 years, man and boy. I am now seriously considering moving down there myself as my partner and I have careers which can easily be integrated wherever we choose to live. Currently planning on a couple more years earning in a $h!tty city before a move out for a better, more relaxed life, hopefully mortgage and employer free.

Matteeboy

Corrado - doesn't have to be a downshift.
Wife and I are doing far better down here than we ever did in Bristol or London thanks to the flexible nature of our work.

Plus we can go to the beach/surf/sail after work (or sometimes in the day then catch up later)!

corradoboy

I currently have 2 jobs, and a move down there would see me having to quit an easy and time efficient (3 nights a week) job which nets slightly above average salary to rely solely on my midweek part-time job as a driving instructor. I have no doubts that I could make it pay its way, but would rather spend the next couple of years minimising any debt prior to making that step. If I can get my current property over £190k with less than £60k owed then I feel I would be in a secure position to take the chance.

Matteeboy

Cool - sounds like plans are well underway.
My family made "the move" in 1989 after many years holidaying here (from Surrey) and have never looked back.
I've just moved back after 8 years in Bristol/London and it's fantastic - if you have work sorted.

Best of luck with it all!

Flatcapdriver

As a second home owner I'll give you a few examples of where potential conflicts can be seen from both sides.

1. Housing. Our house had been left for many years to gradually deteriorate because the old man had died and the family didn't want anything to do with it. The kids had all buggered off to the cities and didn't see any intrinsic value in the property but once they saw the colour of the money they couldn't wait to offload it.

The property far exceeds what any of the locals could afford but the alternative by now, would be a property in total ruin which is no good to anyone. The locals who've visited the house are amazed by the cane ceilings and generally 'ooh and ahh' at the old fashioned materials used in it's renovation generally questioning why plasterboard, double glazing and other modern materials weren't used. They want modern Wimpey type homes.

2. Land. The local farmers still intensively farm the hillsides around us, with our land being clearly delineated by scrub and foliage on our side and a more natural look, whereas theirs has had the soil ploughed and all sorts of chemicals are used for pesticide control etc.

So who's right? Well, all of us really. I've offered the farmer next door the opportunity to harvest our crops in return for keeping the land clear but he doesn't have time. I'm not bothered about the use of pesticides because I'm not trying any organic projects but the increase in natural fauna and fora on our land over the last few years has been dramatic. Plus, the area suffers from horrendous top soil erosion so I'm doing my little bit.

3. Useage. We spend around three months there each year and the house is rented out for a further four months of the year. OK, its not year round living but as I said at the beginning the alternative would be a house in ruin.

4. Economics. I won't bore you with the amount of cash that's been thrown at the property over the last few years but its significant - all of which has been poured into the local economy from which local businesses benefit. I'm on first name terms with most of the local tradesmen and you can see the pound signs light up in their eyes each time we meet.

What has pissed me off is that some of them have ripped me off in the past which was short sighted of them because they could have had a gravy train for life - now they get no work from me. Having completed a brick laying course, one of them even complained that I wasn't being fair doing the work myself. Go figure.

5. Tourism. When the house is rented out, the clients use local shops for their groceries, buy fuel at the local petrol station and eat out locally. The average spend is probably around the £500.00 per week mark, which is a hell of a lot more than the locals can afford to spend - again the local economy benefits.

6. Culture. The Brits have done exactly what they complain about other nationalities doing in their own country by creating ghettos. Is this a good thing - well, yes and no. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be around your own kind provided there is a willingness to integrate.

A good example is down on the coast where the British restaurants serve typical grockle food to British tourists. The local government has decreed that all menus must be displayed in both English and Spanish which as far as I'm concerned is fair play but many of the 'restauranteurs' have complained, reasoning that they never have any Spanish customers! No **** Sherlock - hardly surprising is it?

English shops have sprund up everywhere supplying those essentials such as brown sauce, curry powders etc which generally aren't available locally. Some of the more enterprising locals have clocked on to this and now have 'foreign' sections where this type of stuff can be bought - there's no bitterness at the influx of outsiders, simply a commercial pragmatism that if the market exists (by outsiders) then simply make the best of it.

At the end of the day, neither side can really claim the moral high ground and opportunities exist for all to benefit from the situation. Take the blame culture out of the equation and its quite simple really.

Matteeboy

Now Flatcap - A lot of thought and time went into that post suggesting it's quite an issue.

I suggest you have a good chat with the locals at a nearby pub/shop/village hall and see what they think - While it sounds quite positive in your case(you spend a good deal of time there), in many situations it's not.

You must understand that a house left empty for 50 weeks of the year (as is fairly normal) instead of housing an integral part of a community is a bit of a sore point?
You must also understand that it's not ALL about money (apart from the house prices going stupid) - it's about contributing to the community, which some (but not many) 2nd home owners actually do very well and end up more "integrated" than some locals.

To see a pretty village taken over by empty houses that very occasionally contain a family and their flash car (no problem to me, but many view it differently) while maintaining that the community should be eternally grateful to them because of their oh so precious cash, is just exasperating.

Flatcapdriver

Matt, I can understand how a vacant property could be a sore point but I'd put this down to jealousy as much as anything else - its prevalent in the UK and has been for some time.

The community idea is a nice one but really, in how many communities in the UK does it really exist? Not many because although its an idealised/romantic notion.

The housing problem I can understand because in general house prices are such an emotive issue. If you Google up property prices in a few towns in Cornwall, they seem to start around the £80k mark upwards. Now some people may look down on them and say they are 'hovels' but with a bit of time and money they could be turned into perfectly decent homes. Go back 80 years in the UK and the Victorian semi-detached properties so beloved of the current middle classes, were occupied by the lower classes. They've now become gentrified and the same could happen with these 'hovels' as someone described them.

As I said, neither side can claim the moral high ground.

My last post was merely to illustrate a point.

Matteeboy

Sorry FlatCap but it's a recent thing down here - In the last five years communities HAVE died out in many seaside towns and villages.

What 2nd home owners realise and it's a point I think you are missing, is that money is not the be all and end all - I for one couldn't give a stuff whether someone is on the dole or a millionaire - it's how interesting they are and what they do for/with others.
A very low wage person that helps out in the village, helps arrange events and is interesting to talk to is far more respected (down here) than a multi millionaire with a Range Rover who shouts loudly and patronises everyone, thinking his money does the talking.
It's not jealousy (usually - if it is, that jealous person it not worth talking to), it's a simple human need to integrate and communicate. Something lost in most cities but still alive and kicking in the villages and towns that haven't yet been "ruined"

Leslie

As I said before then, you accuse me of your own failings!.

You actually come across as a an extremely rude person, very self important and unable to accept anybody else's point of view if it does not agree with your own.

We are all entitled to post to say how we each think and if you feel that you have to resort to name calling and insults then it shows that you are singularly lacking in the art of self expression and that you don't have a valid argument either!

Les

Flatcapdriver

Matt, I've not alluded to income and respect so I'm a bit puzzled by the point you're making. All I've said all along, is that someone is benefiting from these second home owners. They must be spending their money locally, from which locals will derive some benefit whether its local shops, restaurants or builders.

They can't be bringing their own provisions, building materials and tradesmen down from London can they?

Another example. We've got the London - Brighton bike ride coming through our village this weekend. Can't wait for the townies to chuck all their rubbish all over the place and have the roads disrupted for the entire day but at least the local shops will do a roaring trade and some of the more enterprising kids rip them off with stalls set up by the side of the road selling them over inflated drinks.

Everyones a winner.

Flatcapdriver

Oh, the irony. Suggest you read the rest of this thread to disprove every one of your poorly thought out points.

As I said, I don't suffer fools gladly.

Matteeboy

Flatcap - You miss my point.
What you are basically saying is that you bring building work and a few quid to the local shops.
Well maybe a few builders and a shopkeeper will be grateful but people do OTHER work down here too!

How about helping arrange local events, chatting in the pub, taking an interest in others lives, sharing experiences? Things that are dying out completely now that it seem so many people value cash over communities.

Locals are not eternally grateful to the 2nd homeowner pound - they are thoroughly pissed off with it.
Once 2nd homeowners actually make an effort to put back something rather than just take take take then things might change but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Flatcapdriver

Matt.

1. Any community derives benefit from tourism. The second home owner buys produce from the shop, the shopkeeper pays the local farmer, the farmer pays the grain supplier and so on. The shopkeeper's child goes to school, the school employs a local teacher, the teacher buys the shopkeepers products.

They all pay taxes. The community benefits.

2. The incomers probably don't integrate to the extent that they could and this would be detrimental to the local community, but do the locals try to integrate with the incomers? It takes two to tango.

There is no complete right or wrong here. As I said at the beginning both sides need to appreciate what the other brings to the equation - it needn't be a 'them and us' situation.

Leslie

Having lived in the West Country in my one home for a good many years now Matt, I back up what you say about 2nd home owners. You are right about the ghost town feeling during non holiday periods, the resistance to taking part in local events, and the worst bit, when they tell everyone how they feel things should be done in the area just to suit them! One gets the feeling that it is all take and very little give! They often seem to have an air of superiority towards the locals whom they consider to be "yokels"

I have also always felt that it seems a selfish thing to buy a second house thus putting up local prices as you say and to use one's wealth to do so for one's own convenience and also with an eye to a profitable investment with no thought for others.

Hardly surprising that the local people get pissed off to say the least!

Les

Flatcapdriver

A really balanced view. Well done Les, you've surpassed yourself.



Fancy that. Using one's wealth for one's own convenience. I bet you've never done that. And this coming from someone accusing others living in a £80 to £150k house of living in a hovel.

MooseRacer

That's very simplistic, but to reply to it:

Yes 2nd home owners do buy produce from a shop....for a few weeks a year. A local would be buying every week of the year (except when they are on holiday in that there London )

Flatcapdriver

Moose. Of course its simplistic but that doesn't detract from the financial input on whatever timescale you care to mention.

According to some on here, the influx of 'furriners' is a bad thing, they contribute nothing, have way too much money and have driven out the locals. If you accept that argument then there can't be any locals so they can't be spending any money.

Of course, the situation is a lot more complex than that but NIMBYs won't admit it.

Matteeboy

Flatcap - what has happened here (in Kernow) is that all the locals have had to move to scabby inland areas which are actually getting quite vibrant despite being rough as rats.

Still more to it than money though - You seem to have "skirted over" my points about community and "joining in" - dead in London (even our next door neighbours in our apartment block wouldn't say hello to us - only the porters were friendly!)

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

The toll charge is for leaving cornwall not entering.....

the reason being to keep the cornish numptys in

Flatcapdriver

Matt, I haven't skirted over the issues of integration as I can see how it would be a problem, perceived or otherwise and I did ask you to what extent the locals tried integrating with the incomers.

Picture the scene:

You enter a pub, Les and his mates are bitching about the poor people living in hovels down the road when they see you, an incomer enter the pub. Cue silence.

Then they start bitching about using 'one's own wealth for one's own convenience'....

Would you want to integrate with them, let alone indulge them in conversation?



I'll dib out now because I can't be bothered to repeat myself. Sure, I can understand why the resentment builds up, sure I can understand the argument about house price inflation but what I can't understand is the locals' refusal to accept that there are tangible benefits to tourism.

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

Not going to get into the debate on a serious note, but..

If Mr Pemburthy was going to sell his house and a local fella offered him
£100k, and Mr Smyth-Bouquet offered £150k, who is he going to sell to !

Money talks, and the local community have really got to look at themselves
rather than blame the so called emmits pricing locals out of property,

I've live here for 31 years and I'm English and ....nearly proud of it

P1Fanatic

I didnt even know there was a Fifteen in Cornwall until I visited Watergate Bay in April. If you blink youd miss the place. Cant even tell its there from the beach itself. Very poor location IMHO.

Simon

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

While I sympathise with the house price situation (I should know I am currently considering buying a house down here) The Cornish National Liberation Army are a utter bunch of feckwits who make the rest of us look like a bunch of country bumpkins.
A bomb made of a biscuit tin, fertiliser and a bit of caster sugar scorching a few robes in the old st austell court house hardly constitutes a terrorist attack

I saw one of these "extremists" dafacing the English Rose on the eden project tourist sign on the way from work a few years ago and he was hardly osama bin laden, more like some fat alcoholic farmer who has too much time on his hands because his English and European farm subsidies pay him to sit on his **** and grow nothing.