Leslie

No one would deny that tourism is the main income during the holiday season in the West Country. No one objects to tourism down here-what on earth are you thinking about? Your example about people ignoring others in pubs is made up and quite wrong in fact. Came from the bottom of the barrel I'd say!

You have not answered the points about 2nd houseowners in any way so far. Matt has described what happens to the locals because they cannot afford to buy decent houses anymore, and given the reason too which you are trying to suppress by wittering on about tourism.

The fact is, 2nd houseowners, as Matt described, only spend a short time down here in the year, and their contribution to the local economy is virtually of no consequence. The area becomes deserted when the summer is over and those houses remain empty when local persons could be living in them, and would be if the prices were not sky high. Just in case it was too difficult for you-that is what we were complaining about, maybe you did not read the posts properly! Matt also politely described the second rate accommodation that so many locals are forced to live in and you conveniently ignored that too of course.

I still maintain as I said before, that I feel it is selfish to use one's wealth to buy second houses when it has the effect as described above. Nothing wrong in using it in other ways that one enjoys as long as it does not affect others unfairly. They could well afford to pay for high class accommodation which would also benefit the economy. Or is it the ensuing profit that they are after? You have already mentioned selling your own 2nd dwelling eventually!

No one down here minds others coming here on holiday to enjoy a beautiful part of the country as long as they don't behave like ill mannered chavs littering the place and being sick all over the pavements at night etc. or being rude and superior because they think they are in a better class than the rest of us. Tourism is the major industry down here quite naturally.

Most of the locals down here will enjoy a conversation in the pubs with the visitors for purely social reasons so you might like to straighten yourself out over that one too.

Les

PeteT

Spot on Leslie, owning a house which is not lived in is immoral and if I had my way would attract 10 times the normal rate of council tax. The money gained from this could be used to subsidize house purchases for people who actually work in the area.

WRX300MAN

Lads . . Sorry to interject at such a late stage . .

. . . .I'm not exactly sure what this thread is about, but would like to point out that Cornwall will be independent as soon as it becomes bart of Greater London (which shouldn't be too long) . .

. . . .Cheers!

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

"A Cornishnan was ****ing his Sister when she said "you **** like Dad" He said "yeah thats what Mum said

unclebuck

It's a shame, but typical of a loud mouthed, uneducated antipodean, with an attitude problem and an opinion about everything, but knowledge of very little about what he speaks.

It would be interesting to know how many years flatfootdriver has spent as part of any community in the West Country, let alone Cornwall, on which he can base his high handed opinions.

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Its not only Cornwall thats suffered from this - The Norfolk coast is almost as bad, with "city types" buying second homes and killing the local economy as the normal population of these villages plummet.

Second holiday homes ARE bad for the local economy. You don't have to buy a local propety and only spend the odd weekend and couple of weeks a year at it to be a tourist, if you want to go to a nice part of the coast there are more than enough very good hotels and guest houses available - which staying at would support the local economy.

I would be more than supportive of laws that meant second propeties in these type of areas were subject to 3 or 4 times the amount of council tax in order to help offset the amount of damage this type of property ownership does to these small villages.

Bloody city types.. keep your Ethnic Diversity How to be a Gang Member training programs to yourselves.

I'm off to kill some foxes.

Leslie

Looks like FCD has "dibbed out" as he said since he could tell that it was all sliding away from him anyway!

Les

logiclee

Well I usually have two surfing holidays down Cornwall every year, I know the locals and even when touring around I've always been made 100% welcome. (Probably because I'm not a Londoner with a second home)

I do tend to avoid the July and August rush though.

The locals do get uptight about people buying second homes and I can't say I blame them, unfortunately I can only see it getting worse now cheap flights into the area are becoming available.

I think the 10 times council tax idea for holiday homes is a good idea and it's about time airlines paid their way for the carbon emmisions they produce, especially on domestic flights.

Cheers
Lee

Matteeboy

A place just come up in my wife's "home" village of Rock for £5m!!

Pretty much anywhere worth looking at is over £1.5m.

corradoboy

I seem to recall that bungalow which sits on its own near the iron bridge looking out towards Padstein and Rock went for 3m, and that was over 3 years ago. Must be heading towards the 5m mark now. Rock has to be thee ultimate incomers pretentious laa-dee-dah hoo-ray look at us aren't we doing well pompous stomping ground in the country. No disrespect to the few true locals left there, but I can't stand the place 'cos of the posing tw@ts who've taken over.

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, the local employees farmers, fish merchant etc !

Who do they employ ? Local people .....erm no.....

They abuse the influx of foreigners coming into Britain and pay them the bare mimimum (if that) and make them work 12+ hours per day and deduct expenses for giving them caravans to live in, of which upto a dozen or more share...

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

Why should they pay 10 times the local rate of council tax, when they dont even use the the local services, and as for that to help subsidize the house purchaser for the local workers ...i take it you mean the Polish, Lithuanians

PeteT

I couldn't give a toss where they come from, I would just like to see villages with people living in them instead of 70% of the houses lying empty for most of the year (and yes, it is 70% in some Lake District 'villages'.)

corradoboy

Isn't it strange how we all jump up and down and tell people who have more than us what they can and can't do ? If you earn 20k a year, then it's feasible that you could exist on bread and beans, live in a 2up 2down and drive a 20yo banger (if indeed you need to drive at all), and the rest of your income could be taken in tax to fund some hairbrained carbon offset idea where farmers are evicted from their land to allow forestation, ruining the local ecosystem and contributing sweet FA to climate change. Why should it be any different from those that earn 200k, 2m, 20m etc etc ? We live in a free market economy, where an individual has the right to do whatever they choose with the income they earn, and are free to roam and settle where they choose. Trying to tax people out of their freedom stinks of fascist dictatorship to me, and it doesn't work. All you do is reduce the amount who have the means to do it and the economy suffers as the wealthy leave to enjoy their freedoms elsewhere, as they fled this very country during the 70's to avoid excessive taxation. They've abused that idealology too, by saying they want to deter the use of motor vehicle use through taxation, knowing full well that we will still use our cars at the forfeit of other less taxed luxuries, and they will still get their big cut. As frustrating as it may be to see properties empty, in our society an individual is free to acquire whatever possessions they choose and do with them what they wish, and no-one can stop them legally, morally or otherwise. How many on here have the Scoob as a second car mainly for fun ? There are some in this land whom can't afford a car at all, so they should be given someones unused Scoob should they ?

Enjoy your freedom, let others enjoy theirs, and don't live with jealousy and spite for those whom have achieved more, whether through hard work or good fortune. If I could afford a second home in Cornwall I'd sure as Hell have one. Or maybe not. I might prefer to emmigrate to NZ, where the weather's better and the people less intollerant, I hope

jods

Moron.

logiclee

What freedom do you have when half the house in your area are empty most of the year because they are holiday homes and the prices have been moved above the local area's income capacity.

You are forced to move or relocate to another part of the country.
Some freedom.

The UK does not have enough affordable housing in some parts of the country and the government needs to tackle the issue.

Cheers
Lee

corradoboy

I agree, it is an awkward situation, but penalising one section of society for the benefit of another is not the answer. A percentage of new houses in The Dales can only be bought by people with a certain history in the area (lived or worked there for set minimum periods) which is helping. Perhaps resales could have similar restrictions applied for a time period to allow locals the chance before incomers steam in.

Matteeboy

Corrado - sounds like a good idea to me.

Oh and that £3m house - was owned by a local dentist whose wife also won £1m on a lottery the year before they sold up.

They now live in a castle in Scotland!

logiclee

That would be a good solution but I would rather they ban the holiday and 2nd homes rather than stop people moving to the area altogether.

I'll be coming down to Porth Beach and Watergate Bay for 11 nights on Wednesday, a nice steady 6 hour drive

Looks like good Surf but not too good weather.

Cheers
Lee

Matteeboy

Lee - Serious swell on it's way - I think the South Coast might be the best option!
All getting a bit excited down here as it's been flat for over two weeks now.

Staying locally?

Know a lot of people in that area.

logiclee

Porth Beach Tourist Park, Cornwall holiday parks, Newquay holidays

Stopped there once or twice a year for over ten years so I know quite a few people down there.
I always set off in the early hours and get there for around 8am and set off in the late evening when coming home.
Saves getting stuck in the usuall M5/A30 snarl ups.

Cheers
Lee

Matteeboy

Lee - Nice place and a couple of nice cafes have opened up in the area.
Well worth having food at the Glendorgal Hotel - Best place in the area by miles and overlooking Porth and Lusty Glaze beach.

The A30 nr Bodmin is REALLY bad at the moment - They haven't opened it up yet and the snarl ups are awful - keep your "traffic program" switched on and listen out for problems and go the Camelford/Wadebridge/A39 way if needed.
Once it all opens up (July) it will improve immensely.

Fair old trip from Notts - Hope it's a good stay.

Back on topic - I got aggro from a local surfer the other day. Got really stroppy until he walked into the local cafe (run by an old mate) and got completely humiliated in front of his mates (hadn't realised I am also a "local") - DOH!!

logiclee

Yep I've been there a few times and it's very good. The new Sea Food restaurant in Porth Bay across fom the Mermaid is worth a look as well.

They are taking their time with it, I was stuck in it last year. A major project though and will be worth it when it's done.
It's about 340 miles all in and I'll be doing 60mph with a few stops so it feels like forever.
I always travel down there through the night so I dont suffer the traffic problems and no one can complain about me holding up the traffic.





It's only the ignorant that get shirty with tourists, the problem is the holiday home situation not those that come into the area on hoilday in hotels, caravans, tents and spend loads of money while they ae down there.
You will always get the odd idiot though.

Cheers
Lee

Leslie

Your first sentence does not quite tie in with your former post. It is quite reasonable to say that the wealthy buying up properties as second homes are penalising local people for the reasons discussed above. They are basically taking an unfair advantage and seriously affecting those locals who cannot get on the housing ladder.

Your idea of restricting sales to locals as in the Dales is a good one but as Lee said, should not be time limited. The rich only have to wait a bit longer and then leap in thus putting the prices up as before.

As I said before, the wealthy can easily afford high class accommodation for a holiday in the area and then of course they would be as welcome as anyone by the local people who are naturally friendly and who live by tourism as much as any other industry and who are also perfectly happy to share this beautiful part of the country with them.

Having been lucky or industrious enough to have made a lot of money is fair enough, but it should not give you the right to do just as you want without regard to the problems of others.

Les

Devildog

This is an interesting thread, however there have been a few over generalisations.

I doubt very much that the only places worth looking at in Cornwall are over £1.5M.

And I doubt very much that the income from holiday homes is all that is required to sustain a local economy.

There is much talk about "communities dying", however I would suggest that communities have been dying for the last 80 or so years, and not because of holiday homes.

Sad as it is, greed has taken over. They want for more than they can afford.

Generations growing up don't want to farm, fish, be engaged in local crafts. They don't want to toil for a living from the local land. Even if they could afford local housing on minimum wages, they would, in all likelyhood, choose not to take it.

Matt's comment about the only places worth looking at being over £1.5m kind of sums it up. People simply expect too much these days.

Incidentally, a quick property search gave me hundereds of up to 3 bed properties at £150,000 or lower in perfectly nice areas.

There is no wright or wrong as far as holiday/second homes go. They have their pros and their cons.

In many areas around the UK were it not for the holiday homes there would be no "communities" left.

Changing working practices may, with time, allow for those communities to be rebuilt. But people will have to accept that they will be different.

Like it or not, change is inevitable. Rather than wishing for the "good old days" like the residents of a sea side old persons home who conveniently forget about dissentry, outside toilets and gas lighting, we should be embracing the changes and working to make them for the better. Not fighting it with the result that it is for the worse.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Coffee on monitor moment"!

Matteeboy

Devildog - You misread my post.
Anywhere IN ROCK worth looking at is over £1.5m.

Go somewhere like Redruth and you can pick up a nice place for £200k.

Flatcapdriver

Err no, Les. Some of us have a life and unlike yourself spending time online at the weekend is not one of them unless I'm totally bored. Yesterday afternoon was spent picking up the detritus left over from the London - Brighton bike ride which unfortunately we have to do every year but at least we got some free beer out of it from the pub which made a fortune.

As I've said from the outset, I can understand why there is resentment towards second home owners in any area but the parochial NIMBYISM displayed by yourself with a total reluctance to acknowledge that they bring anything into the economy is astounding. If (and its a big if) they spend only two weeks per annum then they'd be classified as tourists which you've already admitted brings something into the economy but you simply won't be able to admit that because you're so bitter and twisted about it.

Interesting to note, that despite all your bleating you've yet to acknowledge that there are properties available in Cornwall from £80k to £150k which is a not unreasonable price band.

Any chance of an apology to all those Scoobynetters who live in properties valued around this mark? I mean, insinuating that they all live in 'hovels' is a bit rich even coming from you.

To be fair to Matt, he's admitted that second home owners do put something tangible into the local economy and that some trades are benefitting as I have done with some of his points - neither element can take the moral high ground here.

Some of the comments on this thread are symptomatic of the ingrained envy culture that is prevalent in British society. Nothing else. Go to many other parts of the world and second home ownership is prevalent, its the norm and people understand and accept it. You'd think that all these second home owners were high earning toffs buying up multi-million pound homes and its probably this image which kicks in people's envy but its not. Get on any flight to Spain, Portugal, Italy or France and the second home owners you'll meet are regular joes, tradesmen, secretaries, clerical workers, middle-management types or whatever - they cover a broad cross section of society. Their profile won't fit your perceptions because they won't fit on your hate list and I know you'll now respond by completely failing to address any of my points because that's the way you post.

Cue self indulgent rant from Les...

PeteT

****-jockey.

WR 1mposter

iTrader: (1)

If i had £20k I would/nt buy in redruth or camborne..let alone £200k