big scott

i always find these sort of posts on forums very interesting,we all choose our cars because we like them,otherwise we wouldn't spent thousands purchasing them.so a conversation of my cars better than ur car is pretty pointless,both cars in question are very very nice cars and at some point i personally would love to own either of them.but car ownership is at the end of the day about personel taste.magazines always get differing times when they test cars so it's best to use these as bench mark figures not fact!!
bottom line!!! lets not fall out over some figures that some middle aged tester for topgear magazine or similar mag has achieved,just enjoy youre cars


by the way that bmw is awsome!!

lestippp

Okay, so when you engaged your brain you were unable to read my post were you?
I said a low milage 3.5yr old car, so that is a 2004 vehicle, just wanted to clarify this for you, counting months can be difficult. You are right there is one at £14k and one at £15.2k, the others are between £16 - 17k, with low milage. If only these R32's were special...like astra diesels are!!

I was reading this thread in a little detail and noticed that you are very aggresive towards the others who are on here and in particular the guy who owns the 535d (nice car by the way & what's the S60R like?). That got me curious, what's up with this chap I thought?? Then I picked up your comment that your father is 70 and I see you are 49, then again I thought, he has an english degree, he must be a lecturer of some sort but no your a fireman, that english degree was very useful then! Then I thought he must be a succesful fireman, top rank, perhaps a firemaster, having a degree and all! No that's not it because you drive a 1.9 cdti astra!! So looking at all of the above I realised what the issue is.... you're angry because your 50 and have achieved nothing, even though you have that "all important" english degree! Must say though from looking at you're behaviour on here I would have put your age at 16 - 18!
"Dick head, thicko, subnormal, gutter snipe & non creative garbage" all words of choice from a man with an english degree!
I know you have an astra diesel but that's not our fault now is it, you bought it!! Just think about how many miles per gallon you must be getting..eh!
There must be plenty of phalic compensators in the fire brigade surely!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion Dave.

Matteeboy

Have to agree lesti - I have the same model Astra as Misty without the "chip" (I don't think the chassis and gearbox could cope properly with the extra torque so left it alone) but am well aware of its shortcomings and MUCH preferred my R32!

If age is an issue, wife's 76 year old Grandma just sold her BMW 325i and I know a 68 year old STi owner - Old mans cars then?

lestippp

Cheers man , I'm glad you said that as you have the experience of both cars. I still new the R32 was in a different class anyway but its good when someone has the benefit of having driven them and the honesty to tell it as it is (and civil to boot, nice one mate)!

Good to hear of people driving class cars in their senior years, I only hope I still have the sense to drive quality machines when I'm that age.

Devildog

I'm guessing no kids and a bit of tax evasion. Not that difficult to do under those circumstances.

And as for the VXR - vs Mk4 R32 debate, the the Astra has similar power and torque but does not suffer the transmission losses the Golf's Haldex 4wd system will under full bore starts.

Evo recon the golf has around 159 bhp per ton, quoting higher weight 1500+ kg elsewhere than in the quote below.

The astra is around 1400 kg, power to weight 169 bhp tonne.

Once rolling the Astra should be quicker accelerating (both have similar gearing). There is simply no getting away from that fact.

But there won't be a huge amount in it.

What the stats don't say is that dynamically, the Mk4 R32 isn't really that good.

Evo sum it up quite well:

It was comfortable and civilised: air-con, good stereo, serious seats, handy size and excellent cupholders - the latter essential for my 75-mile run to the evo office, or for super-early airport check-ins. Despite the 20mm lower suspension and aggressive damping, it was also fine on the capital's crumbling streets. Only really bad potholes troubled the cabin, and then the problem was - as I'll come to - more fundamental than chassis tuning.

Out of town - and off the motorway - I was less convinced by the R32. Sure it's very good, but for me it was neither hardcore fish nor utterly effortless fowl. On evo's ECOTY trip in Scotland (063), the R32 wasn't a patch on the crisp Evo VIII for outright A to B speed. A great way to nip rapidly across the moors, but not a real hardcore machine. But then quite a few associates in the industry thought it a bit overbearing for week-in week-out use.

The 4x4 system wasn't very convincing either. In Scotland I felt unsure when it was active (in its normal state, 100 per cent of the torque goes to the front wheels) and how hard I could push in the wet. On Clapham Common after a big dump of wet snow, the R32 slithered around at 15mph - you don't expect to be applying opposite lock in these conditions, though the massive tyres are as much to blame for this.

Weight is a problem with the R32. A kerb weight of 1447kg is a lot for a hatch - but then this one has four-wheel drive and a six-pot engine. One R32 owner rang me to say he was getting rid of his car and going back to a lightly-chipped 1.8 turbo Golf. Figuring the power-to-weight ratios, he reckoned that he'd be better off with a lighter, nimbler front-driver. I can see his point. I had just as much pleasure in my Seat Leon 1.8 20V T, though I would have missed the character and bombast of the R32.

Perhaps the R32's biggest problem is an underlying lack of chassis rigidity. It was most obvious when driving hard or traversing very rough roads. The Mk5 Golf is a massive 80 per cent stiffer than the Mk4. Intergenerational jumps are usually of the order of 20 per cent or so. Go figure. . .

Matteeboy

Yes Devildog but that Journo has now left and I had a lengthy email discussion with him AND a letter published in Evo asking why they had favoured it so much in all other reports (they had a long termer) then given it a bashing in the end of term report.
The journo admitted that they were basically bored of it (not news any more) and that he wasn't a great driver (to me on email).

He no longer writes for them while the others who praised it are still there.
Read any other Evo report on it including this month where they compare the Mk5 and mk4 (and think the mk4 is more "fun" to drive but the mk5 is faster and more efficient) and you'll see they loved the mk4 R32.

Go figure...

Longjing

Having gone from a 330-odd bhp RWD car to a 200-through-the-front job, I honestly can't see the fun in putting any more power than that through the front wheels.

Matteeboy

Longjing - Agree completely.

Devildog

Pretty much confirms what I've always thought about the reliablity of magazine articles, to be honest.

Having said that, having experienced the Mk4 R32, I would tend to agree with his comments about a lack of rigidity and a "what am I doing" 4wd system.

I would have posted that originally, but you know how much scoobynet loves its cut and pastes

lestippp

Bob on mate, this car was a much better vehicle than people realised hence why it is retaining a huge chunk of its value still. I loved the one I had and whilst I agree with devildog that its handling may not be the best it was still a great vehicle, if only they had retained more of the mk4 shape / design and given it the mk5 chassis...that would have been nice!

Matteeboy

I do prefer the look of the mk4 by miles.
What colour did you have?

Mine was a black 53 reg 3dr with leather and cruise.

lestippp

Yeah, mark 4 by a mile, I would have bought another one if the shape had not changed as much.
It was pearlescent blue, looked really good, although my favoured choice is black every time, also a 53 with leather, cruise, sunroof and uprated vw stereo. I would have continued to run it but it was touching 50k and had just cost me £1k in repairs, new brakes ! Those huge front discs don't come cheap! Even so I got £15k for the car back at the start of the year with above average miles!
Might start a new thread on this, look out for it.

The Chief

A Thurlby tuned one shot passed me at weekend - all in black with black wheels on the M42

The reg was S78lth or something like that - it read Stealth anyway!!!!

looked amazing

mattvortex

EVO mag actually got the figures themselves- the figures are in bold and it states that such figures are independently tested.
Are you Vauxhalls PR boy for the vxr? Hell, i like Subarus but at the end of the day pal its just a car- get over yourself!

Matteeboy

I had mine for 8 months in London with secure parking - no problems.
Then moved back to Bristol and within two days someone tried to nick the wheels and damaged it. I got extra locking nuts but they tried again, failed and kicked in the front wing - I had to hide the car at a mates for two months (a mile away!) and ten sell it and get something invisible - the Astra!

Gutted at the time but then it was costing a lot to run and the Astra cost peanuts yet with the same torque as the R32 (and is lighter), isn't an awful lot slower on a normal road (slower off the lights of course).

Now looking at something quick again

ScoobyDoo555

LOL @ this thread

Some great windups - with many rising to the bait

But what does come through is the inconsistency of the Magazines. Personally, I just read them for a laugh - never take any of it seriously (because you can't believe what's being written)

It really is horses for courses though - whilst the Astra may have similar speed/acceleration, it must be an age thing (I'm 34), as I would prefer to be in the cabin of the Golf. Yes, Vauxhall have dramatically improved, but they're still a cheap car.

They certainly give Subaru something to think about (after all imitation is the highest form of flattery - turbos etc)......

Had two Scoobs (modded), and now have something German with a 2.7L Bi-Turbo'd V6 Next will be something with a V8

Keep it up though guys - a great read

Dan

lestippp

Its a pity people were out to nab the wheels and wasted the experience for you. What are you looking for now. My Sti PPP has surprised me with its ability to be run as an everyday car, as well as a balistic missile when you fancy it! Very comfortable to sit in and a lot of fun to drive. Only downside is the mpg, running between 16 - 21 mpg. Best I have managed is 23 on a very long run. Just food for thought.

Matteeboy

Lesti - I'm in no major hurry. Despite the Astra having the image of a newly laid dog turd, it's actually a very useful car - space, low running costs, quick enough to be useful, great for big trips, etc.

So far I've only tested an Evo FQ360 which was completely mad but my sensible (ish) side leads me to booking a test drive in a 335d Touring - An estate is very handy for surfing and we are sprogging in November!

Longjing

JDM twin scroll Legacy? Possibly not quite got the oomph I suppose.

The new M5 estate is rather nice too

lestippp

Great choice to have, I looked at the 360, its a nice car and you won't buy anything else, at that price, that will humilate everything on the road in quite the same way. In truth the 335d must be a fast car, I know the 535d is, so the 3 must be quicker and if you have cubs on the way and need space its a wise choice... economy, space, power. I would struggle to by-pass the 360 though, great interior, for an evo (well better than the older ones at least), but not sure if I could put up with one every day! The legacy or forrester could be worth a look to, an M5 would be wicked, I seen a report on the tourer and it was all good apart from its thirst! V10!! Cost lots though.

Matteeboy

The Forester is just TOO ugly and the one I had for a 24 hour test drive drank a silly amount of fuel - Shame because it's excellent in other ways.
Not keen on the Legacy - just a bit dull and pretty pricey (and heavy on fuel for not that great performance).
M5 is a wee bit pricey!

Only driven the 535d (a lot) and I really liked it but I reckon the 335d will be usefully quicker, will handle better and have a less stupid i-drive system (in fact you can have it without i-drive which is tempting)!
The FQ360 blew me away - nearest I've driven performance wise is a Ferrari F355 (again, drove one a lot for a bit) but even that was pretty lame in comparison AND the Evo has a boot and rear seats! Still hard work to look after but it left a major impression on me!

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

View My Scoob - It's a Leggy

Matteeboy

Veeeery nice but I need something a bit more "stealth!"

lestippp

Nice car man!

Matteeboy

Just found this thread - LOL! Classic SN "debating"

Is Misty still around?

Fancy racing my 335d Touring...? ;-)

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I had a dabble with a 535D the other day and was expecting an **** on a plate scenario, couldnt pull any significant distance on my Swedish Vectra Turbo, I suspect they need the remap, impressive sooty cloud gave away his intentions !

davecweed

thats odd, the 535d's have a partical filter, which means there is no sooty cloud atall

are you sure it was a 535d?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

It said 535D and it left a stinky cloud, not 1988 Diesel Escort style but I was under no illusion it was diesl powered and that the owner was going for it, that and the velocity.

mamoon2

Can't see a 535D having any problems getting away from you even without re-map. They are very quick. Maybe the cloud of soot was his car malfunctioning in some way

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

so with an extra 40 or 50 bhp and another quarter of a tonne and an auto box its going to dissapear and leave me standing ? it was quicker but not night and day different, takes a massive advantage in power on the road to translate to opening up a big distance, plus the opportunity and space to do so, no doubt given more space it would have pulled away further.