Which is best-2.0-2.3 or 2.5 ?
01 July 2007, 01:27 AM
#32
18G Brand new is around £900, but you can pick one up from the US for half that, or a second hand one from this country for around the same.
MD is £1400 inc vat I think, but the price does reflect the quality of the turbo....
If cost is an issue then try the 18G on high boost and see how you like it, but for road use I doubt you will be dissapointed...
01 July 2007, 07:31 AM
#33
A frequently asked question if there ever was one.
IMO the starting point is what do you really use the car for?
Road/ Road track/ track?
The 2.5 is sorted and straightforward from the above inputs and all I've read/asked over the last 2 years on here and 22B. the 2.33 is sexy, and the built 2 litre sounds the simplest and with the right 321 turbo very very effective.(just look at Terry's result)
In all the capacities you will end up buying Rods/Pistons/a crank/bearings for a 2/2.33/2.5 : all cost much the same, as goes for the rest too.
This only leaves the head refurb and turbo, and you also need to do those too for all capacities.
What is left now?
Reliner the 2.0 to 2.33; that is the biggest action needed to the 2.33, preferably on a CDB (which will need some machining for the crank.) That is the 2K extra involved.
You will need to buy a 2.5 short block ( 1.4K)
Thus the 'built' 2 litre is the cheapest option and the money saved will offset the gearbox build to a large degree.
All the versions can run 8K rpm, but the 2.5 will be the strongest road engine as they sound to be the most drivable due to the torque so low down, and the extra capacity of the 2.5 will spool the turbo really quick and low down again, and I feel that is why the 2.5 is the best in the end.
If you have it mapped sensibly to suit the gearbox then you can stage the mods, but it seems silly to build a motor and not have the box to suit.
PPG or 6 speeder will add a further £3K, a bit less with the 6 speeder maybe.
So by now you are probably non the wiser!
Seems to me you pay much the same for the 2.33/2.5 (2.5 = low down torque)
You pay about 1.5K less to do the 2 litre, but that £££ can go to the gearox/clutch you need for any of them.
Graham.
IMO the starting point is what do you really use the car for?
Road/ Road track/ track?
The 2.5 is sorted and straightforward from the above inputs and all I've read/asked over the last 2 years on here and 22B. the 2.33 is sexy, and the built 2 litre sounds the simplest and with the right 321 turbo very very effective.(just look at Terry's result)
In all the capacities you will end up buying Rods/Pistons/a crank/bearings for a 2/2.33/2.5 : all cost much the same, as goes for the rest too.
This only leaves the head refurb and turbo, and you also need to do those too for all capacities.
What is left now?
Reliner the 2.0 to 2.33; that is the biggest action needed to the 2.33, preferably on a CDB (which will need some machining for the crank.) That is the 2K extra involved.
You will need to buy a 2.5 short block ( 1.4K)
Thus the 'built' 2 litre is the cheapest option and the money saved will offset the gearbox build to a large degree.
All the versions can run 8K rpm, but the 2.5 will be the strongest road engine as they sound to be the most drivable due to the torque so low down, and the extra capacity of the 2.5 will spool the turbo really quick and low down again, and I feel that is why the 2.5 is the best in the end.
If you have it mapped sensibly to suit the gearbox then you can stage the mods, but it seems silly to build a motor and not have the box to suit.
PPG or 6 speeder will add a further £3K, a bit less with the 6 speeder maybe.
So by now you are probably non the wiser!
Seems to me you pay much the same for the 2.33/2.5 (2.5 = low down torque)
You pay about 1.5K less to do the 2 litre, but that £££ can go to the gearox/clutch you need for any of them.
Graham.
Last edited by 911; 01 July 2007 at 07:42 AM.
01 July 2007, 10:34 AM
#34
Trim is an area ratio used to describe both turbine and compressor wheels. Trim is calculated using the inducer and exducer diameters.
Example:
Inducer diameter = 88mm
Exducer diameter = 117.5mm
Trim = Inducer2/Exducer2
Trim = 882/117.52 = 56 Trim
As trim is increased, the wheel can support more air/gas flow.
Example:
Inducer diameter = 88mm
Exducer diameter = 117.5mm
Trim = Inducer2/Exducer2
Trim = 882/117.52 = 56 Trim
As trim is increased, the wheel can support more air/gas flow.
01 July 2007, 11:53 AM
#35
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A frequently asked question if there ever was one.
IMO the starting point is what do you really use the car for?
Road/ Road track/ track?
The 2.5 is sorted and straightforward from the above inputs and all I've read/asked over the last 2 years on here and 22B. the 2.33 is sexy, and the built 2 litre sounds the simplest and with the right 321 turbo very very effective.(just look at Terry's result)
In all the capacities you will end up buying Rods/Pistons/a crank/bearings for a 2/2.33/2.5 : all cost much the same, as goes for the rest too.
This only leaves the head refurb and turbo, and you also need to do those too for all capacities.
What is left now?
Reliner the 2.0 to 2.33; that is the biggest action needed to the 2.33, preferably on a CDB (which will need some machining for the crank.) That is the 2K extra involved.
You will need to buy a 2.5 short block ( 1.4K)
Thus the 'built' 2 litre is the cheapest option and the money saved will offset the gearbox build to a large degree.
All the versions can run 8K rpm, but the 2.5 will be the strongest road engine as they sound to be the most drivable due to the torque so low down, and the extra capacity of the 2.5 will spool the turbo really quick and low down again, and I feel that is why the 2.5 is the best in the end.
If you have it mapped sensibly to suit the gearbox then you can stage the mods, but it seems silly to build a motor and not have the box to suit.
PPG or 6 speeder will add a further £3K, a bit less with the 6 speeder maybe.
So by now you are probably non the wiser!
Seems to me you pay much the same for the 2.33/2.5 (2.5 = low down torque)
You pay about 1.5K less to do the 2 litre, but that £££ can go to the gearox/clutch you need for any of them.
Graham.
IMO the starting point is what do you really use the car for?
Road/ Road track/ track?
The 2.5 is sorted and straightforward from the above inputs and all I've read/asked over the last 2 years on here and 22B. the 2.33 is sexy, and the built 2 litre sounds the simplest and with the right 321 turbo very very effective.(just look at Terry's result)
In all the capacities you will end up buying Rods/Pistons/a crank/bearings for a 2/2.33/2.5 : all cost much the same, as goes for the rest too.
This only leaves the head refurb and turbo, and you also need to do those too for all capacities.
What is left now?
Reliner the 2.0 to 2.33; that is the biggest action needed to the 2.33, preferably on a CDB (which will need some machining for the crank.) That is the 2K extra involved.
You will need to buy a 2.5 short block ( 1.4K)
Thus the 'built' 2 litre is the cheapest option and the money saved will offset the gearbox build to a large degree.
All the versions can run 8K rpm, but the 2.5 will be the strongest road engine as they sound to be the most drivable due to the torque so low down, and the extra capacity of the 2.5 will spool the turbo really quick and low down again, and I feel that is why the 2.5 is the best in the end.
If you have it mapped sensibly to suit the gearbox then you can stage the mods, but it seems silly to build a motor and not have the box to suit.
PPG or 6 speeder will add a further £3K, a bit less with the 6 speeder maybe.
So by now you are probably non the wiser!
Seems to me you pay much the same for the 2.33/2.5 (2.5 = low down torque)
You pay about 1.5K less to do the 2 litre, but that £££ can go to the gearox/clutch you need for any of them.
Graham.
Well,thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I'm still not much wiser
Graham-I use the car mainly as a daily driver and to have the odd blast up Santa Pod or Shakespeare County,it'll probably never see a track.
The £3k i've been quoted is to fit a standard 2.5 bottom end with my heads fitted to it. For a 'Built' 2.5 with a bigger turbo i've been quoted £6800-that's without touching the 'box
I have an Sti 5 Type-R 'box rebuilt by Zen Performance,how strong is that ?
It looks like my choices are realistically either the 2.0 or 2.5-still can't make a decision between the 2 though
01 July 2007, 12:35 PM
#37
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340BHP-WRX, You'll still need a PPG or a 6 speed if going for big power, a rebuilt box won't cope with big torque, speak to Paul i'm sure he'll advice you the way to go...
01 July 2007, 12:57 PM
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ish !
Paul is one of the people who i've been talking to about the conversion,he said for £2500 he'll drop in the 2.5 but keeping my turbo would give me around 340-350bhp and similar torque-that's a standard 2.5 Sti block or for the same price rebuild my 2.0 with Forged pistons/rods/uprated bearings.
Maybe i'll go for abit less power and keep my 'box.
How much is a PPG or 6 speed ?
01 July 2007, 02:00 PM
#43
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SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST LUCKY
01 July 2007, 05:20 PM
#46
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I know it'll be a fast,strong car but it's not something that I want to do !
01 July 2007, 05:23 PM
#48
01 July 2007, 05:30 PM
#49
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01 July 2007, 05:35 PM
#51
It is a very hard call isn't it?
One thing I forgot to add is the crank in the 2.5 is good for nearly anything you have in mind.
My current engine is a STOCK Sti v3 with bolt-ons and is a solid 360 x 350.
It had a stock Sti v3 trans for 3 years, but now has a stock Type R trans/dccd and plated rear diff. Worst for the trans is it has racing AVON slicks which take some unsticking on take-off.
The V3 trans is still perfect (and a nice spare to have) and the Type R V5 is great.
The car is a real pleasure on the road and really hauls with complete safety, no silly traction problems even when it's on road tyres.
BUT; if you are going to spend £3K and the 2 litre you have is healthy, then some well chosen bolt-ons will do all you want and the trans will survive.
An 18G/apexi FC ecu/ported cast headers, 550cc injectors and SX reg/Walbro pump and either a FMIC or a V7/V8 TMIC will see the car fly.
A good mapper is essential though, ie Andy F.
I should add that a hillclimb friend has a forged 2 litre with a 321T turbo (bit big) and supporting mods as above, and hits 420 x 380 with a stock Sti RA V3 trans and AVON slicks.
Goes like **** off a shovel to say the least.
One thing I forgot to add is the crank in the 2.5 is good for nearly anything you have in mind.
My current engine is a STOCK Sti v3 with bolt-ons and is a solid 360 x 350.
It had a stock Sti v3 trans for 3 years, but now has a stock Type R trans/dccd and plated rear diff. Worst for the trans is it has racing AVON slicks which take some unsticking on take-off.
The V3 trans is still perfect (and a nice spare to have) and the Type R V5 is great.
The car is a real pleasure on the road and really hauls with complete safety, no silly traction problems even when it's on road tyres.
BUT; if you are going to spend £3K and the 2 litre you have is healthy, then some well chosen bolt-ons will do all you want and the trans will survive.
An 18G/apexi FC ecu/ported cast headers, 550cc injectors and SX reg/Walbro pump and either a FMIC or a V7/V8 TMIC will see the car fly.
A good mapper is essential though, ie Andy F.
I should add that a hillclimb friend has a forged 2 litre with a 321T turbo (bit big) and supporting mods as above, and hits 420 x 380 with a stock Sti RA V3 trans and AVON slicks.
Goes like **** off a shovel to say the least.
Last edited by 911; 01 July 2007 at 05:39 PM.
01 July 2007, 05:37 PM
#52
01 July 2007, 05:38 PM
#53
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01 July 2007, 05:43 PM
#54
01 July 2007, 05:45 PM
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follow my project mate more to come
i would buy a 2.5 used condition and get a ppg gear set that should keep cost at 4k ish.
matt
01 July 2007, 05:46 PM
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I'm not sure how to quote the last few replies so i'll just try and reply in one go !
I have all the supporting mods that would be needed except a big turbo.
I've looked at buying a second hand engine but every single one has a story behind it of some kind. The only genuine one I can find is at Grade-A Subaru-'96 wrx engine,65k miles,£1100+VAT+delivery-would probably last me a couple of months !!
I have all the supporting mods that would be needed except a big turbo.
I've looked at buying a second hand engine but every single one has a story behind it of some kind. The only genuine one I can find is at Grade-A Subaru-'96 wrx engine,65k miles,£1100+VAT+delivery-would probably last me a couple of months !!
01 July 2007, 05:48 PM
#57
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I'm not sure how to quote the last few replies so i'll just try and reply in one go !
I have all the supporting mods that would be needed except a big turbo.
I've looked at buying a second hand engine but every single one has a story behind it of some kind. The only genuine one I can find is at Grade-A Subaru-'96 wrx engine,65k miles,£1100+VAT+delivery-would probably last me a couple of months !!
I have all the supporting mods that would be needed except a big turbo.
I've looked at buying a second hand engine but every single one has a story behind it of some kind. The only genuine one I can find is at Grade-A Subaru-'96 wrx engine,65k miles,£1100+VAT+delivery-would probably last me a couple of months !!
01 July 2007, 05:52 PM
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Graham,
If you're referring to Robs car, it's on an MD321H, not a "T", and now the up pipe, and headers have been improved by Paul, it's going to be even quicker
Mark.