A wise man once told me - deny, deny, deny! Never admit to anything even if you are guilty! Police officers rely on the general public to incriminate themselves most of the time by getting them to admit to an offence at the side of the road ie "do you know why I have stopped you Sir?". I always say "no idea" rather than "I may have been speeding" ...

I'd contest it myself as what have you got to lose? The Police tend to rely on the majority crumpling in the face of their "evidence" & I'm sure most of us do that. What if we always contested everything! Chances are the Legal System would grind to a halt ...

TX.

 

Surely you have them on a technicality then? They've got a fact wrong

TX.

 

This sign indicates that THE NATIONAL SPEED LIMIT applies, ie 60mph on a single carriageway, 70mph on a dual carriageway. You would expect to see this sign at the point where a lower limit ends. Remember that a lower limit than the NATIONAL SPEED LIMIT might still apply to you because of your vehicle or because you are drawing a trailer

 

Er, wrong. It's the other way around. It's illegal for a speedo to underread. Most overread So you are usually going slower than the reading.

 

Oops, my bad. Used the wrong word but described it correctly

 

Described it wrongly too

If your speedo is showing 79 you're probably doing a few mph less

I don't really think my Octavia will do 162mph . The speedo does

 

Bad luck Graham,
Hopefully, it will turn out to be full national limit with no 60 signs.

But thanks for proving that a lot of people do not remember what they were supposed to have learnt before their driving test

Next week, moving to the next lane as you traverse a roundabout
(unless marked otherwise, of course)

 

I wasn't commenting on this particular case, more on the common (wrong) assumption that it easy to get a case dropped because of a simple, obvious, error. If the OP is correct and the speed limit was 70, and he really doing 70 or less, then yes, his case should be thrown out. If, if, if....


M

 

Graham, dont contact the police just yet, if the ticket is incorrect then there maybe a chance that it could be corrected within 14 days. Your best bet would be to gather your evidence re the speed limit etc and wait for a summons then present your arguments in court. You will need to call the copper as a witness, confirm his statement is correct and then drop the bombshell that its a 70 mph limit not 60

 

Nope, description was right. I said you might see 86 or so on the speedo at a possible recorded 79. It means that most who get done know full well they are over the limit, perceiving it as even higher than what they will be prosecuted for. I accept I should have said they "overread" not "underread" though.

 

See what you mean now

 

Amazed you are all still following this.

Here are the chain of events as shown to me in the back of the unmarked Police car.

The Police car is approaching a large island in the route of the A449 dual carriageway. To his left is direction to Himley, to his right is direction to Wolverhampton.
Straight ahead is a small road to Wombourne.
I am approaching the island from Wombourne so effectivly driving towards him. The camera is in the grill so you CANNOT see me at all, though he says he can. The large island is overgrown with weed and chevrons etc.
He goes round the island to his right, towards Wolverhampton where he now can film me going up the gentle hill towards Wolves.
It is THIS stretch of armco dual carriageway that is the road described in all the above. It does NOT have ANY 60 mph signs, just the de-restricted sign, = 70mph.

The 911 is quick, it certainly accellerates, but that does NOT mean it was going fast, simply accellerating to the limit fast, certainly quicker than him.

He is coming round the island at (say) 20 mph, I am already at least 100/200 meters ahead so going much quicker than his speed on the island.

He gives chase to me and follows up the hill on the 70 mph dual carriageway.

He hits 91 mph and infers that i was doing that speed. I know I was not.

How can he call that 'my' speed when he is still accellerating hard to catch me? Because i am well ahead on the road, he has to go much faster to catch me up so he can tail gate me to register the 911 speed. 1/10 mile someone has said before. The whole carriageway in question is 1/2 mile max.

At the top of the dual Carr is another large island which I indicate in very good time that I am turning right, to return down the carriageway (my intent), returning to the island he 'spotted me' at.

Close to the island he lights-up the blue light scaring the hell out of me as he is so close and I was looking to the island I was approaching not my rear mirror (I was in the outside lane as he was)

I proceeded slowly round the island and pulled in.
I got out of the 911 and got into the car at his request.

after some words of
Why do you think I pulled you over?
I was speeding? (I could not think of anything else I could have done, ie run a red light etc)

He then played me the 'chase' and started it way to soon, hence me seeing the full run he made to the island in the first place.

My intent is now to wait for a response to my question to know what the film speed states I was doing, and how long the police car was 'steady' behind me to reference the speed accuratly.

If the answer is 80 mph/1/4 mile then i know I need to take the 3 points/£60.

If it is 71/1/4 mile then i can argue the case knowing the carriage way is 70mph.

Until i know the speed I was doing which the Police Officer used to incriminate me I cannot reliably contest this issue.
I do belive if the Police man was willing to let me off with a bollo~king then he would have. He seemed a reasonably minded copper.

He obviously thought my behaviour was beyond this and felt it justified to endorse my license.

I really cannot imagine a mistake he HAS made by writing 60 instead of 70 will hold any ground on it's own.
Whew...
Graham.

 

All seems a bit odd.

I know why you accepted the ticket at the time - you were told you were doing 71mph in a 60mph limit. However, for the officer to imply you were going even faster than that does not add up - of course he's got to go a lot faster to catch you up! He can't judge your speed on the speed he had to do to catch you!
Also, supprised he didn't follow you for longer - half a mile is a pretty short distance to draw conclusions on your standard of driving.

I got stopped many years ago after I'd been driving down a Devon B road, at around 60mph. I saw the copper in a side road, but I carried on at the legal limit for the road. When stopped, the policeman said to me; "Going a bit fast back there, weren't we?" To which I replied, "Not too fast, about 60mph." He then commented how he had to do over 80mph to catch me up, but agreed that I probably wasn't exceeding the limit, and let me on my way.

 

This whole argument about Police having to go xxxmph to catch you makes me laugh sometimes, if they are stationary and you are moving, of course they will have to exceed the speed limit to catch you up, if he accelerates to 60/70mph the same as you, he will never catch you up its impossible !

 

i cant belive half of this poor geezer only wants advice dont think any ones give him any yet havent read most of it couldnt belive the first page
if it was me i would fight it all the way a couple of mates have fought it because of lack of evedence they won even if you loose you will only get 3 points and £120 fine (got done christmas coming sideways out of bp doing 45 in 30 i was bang to rights realy but didnt pay fixed penalty) any way the main concern is the points if you win no points if you loose 3 points what have you got to loose in my eyes if you think you have a case then fight it

i have had a lot of experiance in this (17 convictions ) so i would fight it
should no how the system works buy now

 

try and get photos to prove that he couldnt see you thats what my mates done
f****d the police right up

 

People like you should be locked up and not let drive again until......





















































You have an engine in your car

 

might of known youll have something to say about that

 

Not read all the posts, but I do feel for you Graham.

I actually failed my bike test for not knowing I was in a 70 limit. I thought is was 60. My mate who is a traffic cop says many officers get this speed limit wrong.

Anyway, the old fella got caught speeding in West Yorks and got offered either a £60 fine and 3 points OR a £97 fine and a speeding awareness course, but no points. He's on the course soon!!

Any other forces doing this?

 

Not in the West Midlands sadly.
I would happily pay and go on the course than have the anguish of the points etc.

 

There is a lot of conflicting advice, some right and therefore some wrong, get yourself to were you will get good sound and 99% correct advice at FightBack Forums

A Dual carriageway has any phyical divide stopping you crossing into the other carriageway, grass, kerb or armco, a white line is no good, so unless the road was signed as a 60, it was a 70.

national speed limit is also 30 when street lights a present, lets not forget that, strictly the 30 signs on entry are not required.

You have an FPN for an absolute offence (exceeding the limit) so whatever he wrote, if you go to court its only necesary tto show you exceeded the lmit, so iff he wrote 70 in a 60 and they can prove you were doing 80 in a 70, you will be found guilty.

Nothing I hate more than people who think they know something telling you they DO.

Simon

 

last itme i got pulled the officer was the same nice and polite etc but clearly trying it on as he tried to book myself and my mate, both riding bikes, with one click on VASCAR. Technically he didn't actually get one or other.

I said "i wasn't going that fast" to him, gave him my license so he could check over the details (didn't need the hassle of a producer so see no reason why you wouldn't hand the license over if you have one) and took the ticket.

Went to see a lawyer who said "it is clear you don't want to pay it so don't. If they follow up then contest it"

Essentially they issue so many tickets it works on percentage. They get money off those who pay and hope that social conditioning makes you pay up. I got done for 87mph in a 60 (never going that quick on a fully loaded ER-5) didn't pay and never heard a thing.

Suggest you sit on the ticket and if it goes to court present your evidence about the speed of the road (chances are the VASCAR tape will have been wiped or lost anyway) and if that doesn't wash ask for the driving course which wasn't offered you. As long as you don't come over all chav you should have nothing the fear.

5t.

 

So you are saying that any road with a NSL and street lights is a 30 area

Not all areas offer this as an alternative. This is usually a local scheme so if 911 lives in an area that doesn't then this wouldn't be offered as an option.

 

i thought this too. Aren't there sections of motorwayt with street lights?


Ah noted when i read back above. It sounds like 911 has a case to argue though. Vascar is accurate but depends on the driver's physical reaction to start and stop the clock so to do you for 71mph in a 70 limit would be difficult i think.


5t.

 

I may be mistaken, but i was always told Dual Carriageways with Street Lights were 60 limits ? as are all dual carriageways in towns (unless otherwise posted), but i may be wrong here, wont be the first time lol

 

Out of interest was the unmarked car a black BMW?

Had a close shave a few weeks back on the A456 nr. Kidderminster. National speed limit road and I was pressing on but not excessively so, but there's this black BMW following me, bit too close to me for comfort but not tailgating.

Anyway got to a roundabout, nice a clear, thought I'd lose the ******, so slowed down and then accelerated through the roundabout for a nice corner exit speed Into dual carriageway so accelerated quickly up to something near the limit. Lo and behold a few seconds later the BMW is back there sat on my bumper.

Oh well I thought if he wants to race then he can sod off, so pulled into the inside lane and started braking for a 40 limit. Now a few seconds later this BMW hasn't come past Start looking around for it and hear this weird noise (turned out to be about a 0.5 sec blast of his siren), looked over and it's beside me. There's a bloke inside shouting and gesticulating, weird, then I notice the uniform, ****. Finally made out that he wanted me to wind down the window. We are now stopped side by side on a dual carriageway, there was nowhere suitable to pull over.....

Anyway he starts ranting about how I should slow down and if he catches me again it will be court and points. Just nodded and tried to sound apologetic. The he drove off, lights flashing in the rear window. Phew

OK I may have been going a bit quick be I guess he didn't actually have anything to do me on. Not sure the fact that he was on his own played into it either. No idea if he was even traffic or just some jobs worth on his way back to the station.

Well pissed of that he pushed me into driving quickly to get him off my bumper. Won't take the bait so readily next time. Barstewards

 

Hence my confused post. Not sure if The Roookie intended their post to sound like it does but thats the way I read it. Unless otherwise notified a built up area with street lights is 30. Ovbiously this doesn't apply to motorways etc. If the limit is other than 30 or NSL then there should be repeat markers (the smaller round circles) posting the speed at certain intervals along the length of the route (not sur if it's every 100 metres or 1000 yards)

 

'My' dual carriageway has lights along most (maybe all) of it.iirc.

As i say, it is key I find out the speed he thinks I was going (found it hard to concentrate on the situation tbh as I thought about it all) and how long the camera was tracking exactly my speed to arrive at this number.

Maybe I will have a reply to my email on the subject tonight from the help line?
Will let you know even if I was doing a silly speed or not.

If this is all a 'fair cop' then so be it.

 

As you say 911 until you know the actual speed he is doing you for its difficult to work it out, hopefully they will be forthcoming so you can set this to rest and either fight it or take it on the chin.

 

911, this post contains the best advice so far.
There can't be mistakes in the charge