Quit my job - going to play poker for a living
17 July 2007, 03:38 PM
#61
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Remortgaged in Nov 2006 and sorted my finances out before I gave up my job so I shouldn't have to worry about that for a while mamoon. Granted it won't be as straightforward as with a job but I'd like to think that if I've got two years of poker records showing say £2400 a month on average I'll be able to sort my mortgage stuff/loan stuff out.
17 July 2007, 04:19 PM
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As others have said, good luck. If I thought that I had a skill that could earn me enough money to more-or-less equal my job then I'd love to do the same thing, though I'm not sure I'd have the nerve...
I don't think I ever mentioned that we bought a new S2000 earlier this year; your comments on my thread in 'Other Marques' were extremely helpful in reaching that decision. We've been very happy with it so far, and it is a nice break from the Scoob on the rare occasion when I get a drive of it!
I don't think I ever mentioned that we bought a new S2000 earlier this year; your comments on my thread in 'Other Marques' were extremely helpful in reaching that decision. We've been very happy with it so far, and it is a nice break from the Scoob on the rare occasion when I get a drive of it!
17 July 2007, 04:25 PM
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I don't think I ever mentioned that we bought a new S2000 earlier this year; your comments on my thread in 'Other Marques' were extremely helpful in reaching that decision. We've been very happy with it so far, and it is a nice break from the Scoob on the rare occasion when I get a drive of it!
That said, driving it on a freezing cold winter night with a clear sky and the heating up full roof down is better 
17 July 2007, 05:33 PM
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When you need to remortgage you will show zero income and no lender in their right mind will allow gambling winnings.
SaxoBoy knows the risks already but for anyone thinking it sounds like jolly good fun the above are only two of the potential issues. The bigger problem is that, despite effectively working for yourself, you never generate any passive income or accrued business value as you would with a "proper" self employed business......the second you stop - it all stops and no one will give you a penny for it when you retire.
Having said that...the Cancer of playing 4 tables a day for 40 years is a nonstarter anyway and no one would expect to play internet poker forever - you either get lucky and make plenty and get out or you don't (and unlike other jobs you have to hope you don't end up a drunk owing sharks money
)T
17 July 2007, 05:57 PM
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The bigger problem is that, despite effectively working for yourself, you never generate any passive income or accrued business value as you would with a "proper" self employed business......the second you stop - it all stops and no one will give you a penny for it when you retire.
I also agree that the primary goal is to 'set myself' up within the next 5 years however, if god said to me now that for the next 40 years I could average £3000 a month tax free (that figure goes up with inflation say) from 20-25h a week then I think I'd take it. That's the other big appeal in poker for me; it can potentially buy you time and that, to me, is worth more than all the tea in china. I'd love to have to the time to do things I enjoy or want to do rather than work 40-50-60+h weeks to try and climb the corporate ladder.
17 July 2007, 06:36 PM
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At the moment I earn £28k and pocket around £1825 a month
17 July 2007, 06:41 PM
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Oh and your nice cushy index linked final salary council pension scheme is now foo-barred. How do you intend to match that one? I take it from your after tax incomings you weren't in the scheme anyway?
17 July 2007, 07:03 PM
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Wasn't in it - I knew there was no way I'd ever be a Coooooncil worker till the end of my days. Look back to my post on win rates and apply it to 5 tabling NL$5/10, NL$10/20+, etc. That's the pension taken care off 
I also was getting around £50 a month in expenses for the car.
I also was getting around £50 a month in expenses for the car.
17 July 2007, 07:16 PM
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So If you rose up the council ranks and had a half decent wage (i.e not 28K) at retirement, and if you retired at even 65 and lived till you were 75 or 80, then poker will give you a similar lump sum plus pension of more than the present LA rate. And without you playing poker until the grave?
I know the 80th rule pension isn't that great, but if you were on a present LA salary of £60K - £70, all things being = (IL) when 'you' retire, then that's surely a hard act to follow playing poker pension wise, unless your winnings increase substantially that is.
Have you found a better private pension scheme?
edited to say I'm not with the council SB, but 'she' is
I know the 80th rule pension isn't that great, but if you were on a present LA salary of £60K - £70, all things being = (IL) when 'you' retire, then that's surely a hard act to follow playing poker pension wise, unless your winnings increase substantially that is.
Have you found a better private pension scheme?
edited to say I'm not with the council SB, but 'she' is
Last edited by _RIP_; 17 July 2007 at 07:23 PM.
17 July 2007, 07:18 PM
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Not strictly true if you get into affiliate marketing on the side - i.e. promoting a particular site(s) for a cut. In general though, what you say is correct.
I also agree that the primary goal is to 'set myself' up within the next 5 years however, if god said to me now that for the next 40 years I could average £3000 a month tax free (that figure goes up with inflation say) from 20-25h a week then I think I'd take it. That's the other big appeal in poker for me; it can potentially buy you time and that, to me, is worth more than all the tea in china. I'd love to have to the time to do things I enjoy or want to do rather than work 40-50-60+h weeks to try and climb the corporate ladder.
I also agree that the primary goal is to 'set myself' up within the next 5 years however, if god said to me now that for the next 40 years I could average £3000 a month tax free (that figure goes up with inflation say) from 20-25h a week then I think I'd take it. That's the other big appeal in poker for me; it can potentially buy you time and that, to me, is worth more than all the tea in china. I'd love to have to the time to do things I enjoy or want to do rather than work 40-50-60+h weeks to try and climb the corporate ladder.
It might detract from your actual playing strategy but it's not a bad way to get money from others for relatively little work.
Disclaimer: I haven't checked the site for it's authenticity or claims but used it as an example.
17 July 2007, 07:49 PM
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RIP, the example I'll give is purely theoretical and based on what could happen if a player has all the right attributes and crucially the correct attitude to continuously progressing, testing and tweaking their game to improve it and find a new edge.
Lets assume our pro poker player (bob) starts at NL$1/2 with a $20,000 bankroll. The maximum buy in at that level if $200 so he has 100x the max buy in = fairly generous.
Bob plays 5-6 tables and wins at 8bb/100 hands and generally plays 30 hours of poker a week.
I'll not show the workings to keep this simple so just trust my maths. After 12 'average' weeks the expectation is that Bob has made $25,920 (I'm including some rakeback here) and thus his roll is now $45,920. He pulls out $9,920 to see him through the next 3 months expenses wise. He has $36,000 left and moves up to NL$2/4 (now bottom rung of mid-stakes).
Bob beats NL$2/4 at 7bb/100 and plays another 12 weeks of poker netting him around $44,650 and taking his roll to $80,650. He withdraws $10,650 to see him through and takes a pop with 70x the buy in at NL$5/10.
5/10 is much harder but Bob continues to improve and adapt and beats it by 6bb/100. He knocks out 24 weeks more and his roll is now $257,200. Bob's average hourly rate is now £130. Bob blows $57,200 on hookers, booze and living expenses for 12 of those 24 weeks and puts some aside for the future. He takes a proper holiday as his first year has been a bit of a grind.
Bob returns refreshes and tackles the high-stakes limits. He tries NL$10/20 and NL$25/50 but never has the roll, ability or stones to go higher. Bob finds he can average around $350 an hour across those levels and undertakes to play 25h a week, 45 weeks of the year. Each year he now earns just shy of £200,000 a year tax free....and so on.
If you make it in poker it's quite possible to make in 5 years what most Council workers will make in their entire lifetime. I know two Pro's that went from zero to £2m+ in under 3 years (tillerman, glasgow; mafews, edinburgh).
For a very interesting read go to CTS's blog If you click on his October 2006 archives and read from the bottom up you can actually see the sort of rapid progression I'm taking about. In fact, you'll see him rise quicker and further!! Another card runners pro Brian Townsend went from playing for pennies to having +/- $1.5m sessions in 18 months!!!!!! Granted, extreme examples! P.S. Brian lost $2.2m in a 24h period just a few days ago. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick
Lets assume our pro poker player (bob) starts at NL$1/2 with a $20,000 bankroll. The maximum buy in at that level if $200 so he has 100x the max buy in = fairly generous.
Bob plays 5-6 tables and wins at 8bb/100 hands and generally plays 30 hours of poker a week.
I'll not show the workings to keep this simple so just trust my maths. After 12 'average' weeks the expectation is that Bob has made $25,920 (I'm including some rakeback here) and thus his roll is now $45,920. He pulls out $9,920 to see him through the next 3 months expenses wise. He has $36,000 left and moves up to NL$2/4 (now bottom rung of mid-stakes).
Bob beats NL$2/4 at 7bb/100 and plays another 12 weeks of poker netting him around $44,650 and taking his roll to $80,650. He withdraws $10,650 to see him through and takes a pop with 70x the buy in at NL$5/10.
5/10 is much harder but Bob continues to improve and adapt and beats it by 6bb/100. He knocks out 24 weeks more and his roll is now $257,200. Bob's average hourly rate is now £130. Bob blows $57,200 on hookers, booze and living expenses for 12 of those 24 weeks and puts some aside for the future. He takes a proper holiday as his first year has been a bit of a grind.
Bob returns refreshes and tackles the high-stakes limits. He tries NL$10/20 and NL$25/50 but never has the roll, ability or stones to go higher. Bob finds he can average around $350 an hour across those levels and undertakes to play 25h a week, 45 weeks of the year. Each year he now earns just shy of £200,000 a year tax free....and so on.
If you make it in poker it's quite possible to make in 5 years what most Council workers will make in their entire lifetime. I know two Pro's that went from zero to £2m+ in under 3 years (tillerman, glasgow; mafews, edinburgh).
For a very interesting read go to CTS's blog If you click on his October 2006 archives and read from the bottom up you can actually see the sort of rapid progression I'm taking about. In fact, you'll see him rise quicker and further!! Another card runners pro Brian Townsend went from playing for pennies to having +/- $1.5m sessions in 18 months!!!!!! Granted, extreme examples! P.S. Brian lost $2.2m in a 24h period just a few days ago. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick
17 July 2007, 08:44 PM
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my bank roll is up and down more than her in door's knickers 
17 July 2007, 08:58 PM
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Camo - general tips are:
* Play tight
* Understand that you are betting for value (because you want a caller) or betting as if you are betting for value (i.e bluffing) when you want a fold. Don't turn real hands into bluffs and don't bet for value when no inferior hand can call.
* Be patient, look for specific weaknesses in your opponents and wait until the opportunity comes to take advantage. It might not come tonight or this week, if so, you must continue to wait.
* Understand that AhKh is a better hand on a 10h,4d,2h board than Jd10c despite only being ace high vs a pair of 10s (this is because AhKh has higher equity here (55% vs 45%). With big draws like this don't be afraid to pump the pot up but BET it rather than calling it.
* In relation to the above: if you call you can only win one way (by having/getting the best hand). If you bet you can win two ways (by having/getting the best hand or by getting your opponent(s)) to fold.
Finally, and more importantly, read books, articles and stuff on the net. There is sooooooooo much on poker now to help new players quickly get their games sorted. I'm taking No-Limit Holdem Theory & Practice away with me on holiday and can't wait to get stuck in to it. I think its a key indicator that I was positively moist when I read the contents page. How many people can say that when they are looking at a book/document relating to their work
Other than that the only way I could help is if you post some hand histories for me to look over to find specific problems/mistakes.
* Play tight
* Understand that you are betting for value (because you want a caller) or betting as if you are betting for value (i.e bluffing) when you want a fold. Don't turn real hands into bluffs and don't bet for value when no inferior hand can call.
* Be patient, look for specific weaknesses in your opponents and wait until the opportunity comes to take advantage. It might not come tonight or this week, if so, you must continue to wait.
* Understand that AhKh is a better hand on a 10h,4d,2h board than Jd10c despite only being ace high vs a pair of 10s (this is because AhKh has higher equity here (55% vs 45%). With big draws like this don't be afraid to pump the pot up but BET it rather than calling it.
* In relation to the above: if you call you can only win one way (by having/getting the best hand). If you bet you can win two ways (by having/getting the best hand or by getting your opponent(s)) to fold.
Finally, and more importantly, read books, articles and stuff on the net. There is sooooooooo much on poker now to help new players quickly get their games sorted. I'm taking No-Limit Holdem Theory & Practice away with me on holiday and can't wait to get stuck in to it. I think its a key indicator that I was positively moist when I read the contents page. How many people can say that when they are looking at a book/document relating to their work
Other than that the only way I could help is if you post some hand histories for me to look over to find specific problems/mistakes.
17 July 2007, 09:25 PM
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Great move SB! I just read Anthony Holdens 'Big Deal' which I am sure you are fully aware of/have read, if you havent its a must! I know he's got bigger deal out now as well.
It certainly takes some ***** but hey sounds like you know what you are doing, have grinded it out in the small cash games and have enough of a bankroll to deal with variance.
I play quite abit online (mainly Party but also Pacific and Titan) mainly tourneys as I like the idea of a set amount to buy in with. I dont think I have done my 'apprenticeship' long enough to even consider doing this and even then it still take some guts to give up regular income, BUT if you are confident of your ability then do it!
Dont worry about the detractors just concentrate on your strategies!
Gary
It certainly takes some ***** but hey sounds like you know what you are doing, have grinded it out in the small cash games and have enough of a bankroll to deal with variance.
I play quite abit online (mainly Party but also Pacific and Titan) mainly tourneys as I like the idea of a set amount to buy in with. I dont think I have done my 'apprenticeship' long enough to even consider doing this and even then it still take some guts to give up regular income, BUT if you are confident of your ability then do it!
Dont worry about the detractors just concentrate on your strategies!
Gary
17 July 2007, 09:38 PM
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RIP, the example I'll give is purely theoretical and based on what could happen if a player has all the right attributes and crucially the correct attitude to continuously progressing, testing and tweaking their game to improve it and find a new edge.
Lets assume our pro poker player (bob) starts at NL$1/2 with a $20,000 bankroll. The maximum buy in at that level if $200 so he has 100x the max buy in = fairly generous.
Bob plays 5-6 tables and wins at 8bb/100 hands and generally plays 30 hours of poker a week.
I'll not show the workings to keep this simple so just trust my maths. After 12 'average' weeks the expectation is that Bob has made $25,920 (I'm including some rakeback here) and thus his roll is now $45,920. He pulls out $9,920 to see him through the next 3 months expenses wise. He has $36,000 left and moves up to NL$2/4 (now bottom rung of mid-stakes).
Bob beats NL$2/4 at 7bb/100 and plays another 12 weeks of poker netting him around $44,650 and taking his roll to $80,650. He withdraws $10,650 to see him through and takes a pop with 70x the buy in at NL$5/10.
5/10 is much harder but Bob continues to improve and adapt and beats it by 6bb/100. He knocks out 24 weeks more and his roll is now $257,200. Bob's average hourly rate is now £130. Bob blows $57,200 on hookers, booze and living expenses for 12 of those 24 weeks and puts some aside for the future. He takes a proper holiday as his first year has been a bit of a grind.
Bob returns refreshes and tackles the high-stakes limits. He tries NL$10/20 and NL$25/50 but never has the roll, ability or stones to go higher. Bob finds he can average around $350 an hour across those levels and undertakes to play 25h a week, 45 weeks of the year. Each year he now earns just shy of £200,000 a year tax free....and so on.
If you make it in poker it's quite possible to make in 5 years what most Council workers will make in their entire lifetime. I know two Pro's that went from zero to £2m+ in under 3 years (tillerman, glasgow; mafews, edinburgh).
For a very interesting read go to CTS's blog If you click on his October 2006 archives and read from the bottom up you can actually see the sort of rapid progression I'm taking about. In fact, you'll see him rise quicker and further!! Another card runners pro Brian Townsend went from playing for pennies to having +/- $1.5m sessions in 18 months!!!!!! Granted, extreme examples! P.S. Brian lost $2.2m in a 24h period just a few days ago. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick
Lets assume our pro poker player (bob) starts at NL$1/2 with a $20,000 bankroll. The maximum buy in at that level if $200 so he has 100x the max buy in = fairly generous.
Bob plays 5-6 tables and wins at 8bb/100 hands and generally plays 30 hours of poker a week.
I'll not show the workings to keep this simple so just trust my maths. After 12 'average' weeks the expectation is that Bob has made $25,920 (I'm including some rakeback here) and thus his roll is now $45,920. He pulls out $9,920 to see him through the next 3 months expenses wise. He has $36,000 left and moves up to NL$2/4 (now bottom rung of mid-stakes).
Bob beats NL$2/4 at 7bb/100 and plays another 12 weeks of poker netting him around $44,650 and taking his roll to $80,650. He withdraws $10,650 to see him through and takes a pop with 70x the buy in at NL$5/10.
5/10 is much harder but Bob continues to improve and adapt and beats it by 6bb/100. He knocks out 24 weeks more and his roll is now $257,200. Bob's average hourly rate is now £130. Bob blows $57,200 on hookers, booze and living expenses for 12 of those 24 weeks and puts some aside for the future. He takes a proper holiday as his first year has been a bit of a grind.
Bob returns refreshes and tackles the high-stakes limits. He tries NL$10/20 and NL$25/50 but never has the roll, ability or stones to go higher. Bob finds he can average around $350 an hour across those levels and undertakes to play 25h a week, 45 weeks of the year. Each year he now earns just shy of £200,000 a year tax free....and so on.
If you make it in poker it's quite possible to make in 5 years what most Council workers will make in their entire lifetime. I know two Pro's that went from zero to £2m+ in under 3 years (tillerman, glasgow; mafews, edinburgh).
For a very interesting read go to CTS's blog If you click on his October 2006 archives and read from the bottom up you can actually see the sort of rapid progression I'm taking about. In fact, you'll see him rise quicker and further!! Another card runners pro Brian Townsend went from playing for pennies to having +/- $1.5m sessions in 18 months!!!!!! Granted, extreme examples! P.S. Brian lost $2.2m in a 24h period just a few days ago. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick
18 July 2007, 10:28 AM
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Camo - general tips are:
* Play tight
* Understand that you are betting for value (because you want a caller) or betting as if you are betting for value (i.e bluffing) when you want a fold. Don't turn real hands into bluffs and don't bet for value when no inferior hand can call.
* Be patient, look for specific weaknesses in your opponents and wait until the opportunity comes to take advantage. It might not come tonight or this week, if so, you must continue to wait.
* Understand that AhKh is a better hand on a 10h,4d,2h board than Jd10c despite only being ace high vs a pair of 10s (this is because AhKh has higher equity here (55% vs 45%). With big draws like this don't be afraid to pump the pot up but BET it rather than calling it.
* In relation to the above: if you call you can only win one way (by having/getting the best hand). If you bet you can win two ways (by having/getting the best hand or by getting your opponent(s)) to fold.
Finally, and more importantly, read books, articles and stuff on the net. There is sooooooooo much on poker now to help new players quickly get their games sorted. I'm taking No-Limit Holdem Theory & Practice away with me on holiday and can't wait to get stuck in to it. I think its a key indicator that I was positively moist when I read the contents page. How many people can say that when they are looking at a book/document relating to their work
Other than that the only way I could help is if you post some hand histories for me to look over to find specific problems/mistakes.
* Play tight
* Understand that you are betting for value (because you want a caller) or betting as if you are betting for value (i.e bluffing) when you want a fold. Don't turn real hands into bluffs and don't bet for value when no inferior hand can call.
* Be patient, look for specific weaknesses in your opponents and wait until the opportunity comes to take advantage. It might not come tonight or this week, if so, you must continue to wait.
* Understand that AhKh is a better hand on a 10h,4d,2h board than Jd10c despite only being ace high vs a pair of 10s (this is because AhKh has higher equity here (55% vs 45%). With big draws like this don't be afraid to pump the pot up but BET it rather than calling it.
* In relation to the above: if you call you can only win one way (by having/getting the best hand). If you bet you can win two ways (by having/getting the best hand or by getting your opponent(s)) to fold.
Finally, and more importantly, read books, articles and stuff on the net. There is sooooooooo much on poker now to help new players quickly get their games sorted. I'm taking No-Limit Holdem Theory & Practice away with me on holiday and can't wait to get stuck in to it. I think its a key indicator that I was positively moist when I read the contents page. How many people can say that when they are looking at a book/document relating to their work
Other than that the only way I could help is if you post some hand histories for me to look over to find specific problems/mistakes.
PS What top poker books should I be reading?
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