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Heads up - James may getting chucked around in a Typhoon at 8pm

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Old 18 July 2007, 05:15 PM
  #31  
alpha charlie
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Who noticed that the footage was off 2 different Typhoons?

May took off in a 3 Sqn jet but footage of the rolls and stuff was a 17 Sqn jet

Cheap BBC

Cheers
AC
Old 18 July 2007, 11:58 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Steve Sherwen
It's probably an irrelevant question. Most of our future wars will be fought against small groups of people hiding amongst civilians and in caves. I'd be surprised if there is another good "dogfight" soon. Unless the Argies fancy another go. What did they replace their Mirage IIIs with?

Steve
A4-Rs
Old 18 July 2007, 11:59 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Daz34
Independant research disagrees.
A Typhoon would win 82% of its engagements with a Su-27/35. This is only bettered by the F-22.

Of course these are in no way as qualified as ScoobyNet experts
Wrong
Old 19 July 2007, 12:03 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Leslie
James May is a very good presenter and his programmes have been very interesting and enjoyable so far.

Was interested to know what the downsides of the delta wing form is. I know you may think I am biased in that respect, but the delta is known for being able to manoeuvre extremely well at lower speeds due to the overwing vortex which is generated at the leading edge of the wing at the higher angles of attack. The Concorde is the prime example of that of course. We were able to prove that to the F15 pilots who found that they could not turn with a Vulcan at height.

I would certainly like to get my hands on a Typhoon, but that would go without saying naturally.

Les
The delta sux at low speeds!

Very crappy handling side effects at low speed.

The Vulcan was a flying wing at the end of the day, so at high altitude it was ok.

The F-15 can barely turn with a 747, it flies fast, climbs like hell.........
Old 19 July 2007, 12:54 AM
  #35  
Daz34
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So which flight sim do you play on your pc to bestow you of such great knowledge?
Old 19 July 2007, 03:56 AM
  #36  
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Talking

Originally Posted by Janspeed
The delta sux at low speeds!

Very crappy handling side effects at low speed.

The Vulcan was a flying wing at the end of the day, so at high altitude it was ok.

The F-15 can barely turn with a 747, it flies fast, climbs like hell.........
No offence, but when it comes to the flight characteristics of Deltas I'll take Lesley's opinion

This is base solely on the fact that Les has actually flown the odd Vulcan or two





Granted though, your average C130 pilot would agree an F15 can't turn for ****

And the only way they got one to outclimb an aircraft old enough to be it's grandfather, was by stripping it bare and polishing all the exterior surfaces
Old 19 July 2007, 04:16 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Janspeed
Wrong
Eurofighter Technology and Performance
OpEval

The Eurofighter project has been subject to several operational evaluations. These have been carried out, independently from the Eurofighter consortium, primarily by Britain's DERA, the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL). Unlike many previous theoretical operational capability studies, the Eurofighter analysis utilised a true simulation approach. This was achieved through a number of networked battle simulation computers, termed JOUST, each of which can be flown by human pilots.
BVR Combat Rating
F-22 Raptor rating : 91%
Typhoon rating : 82%
Rafale rating : 50%
F-15C rating : 43%
F-18+ rating : 25%
F-18C rating : 21%
F-16C rating : 21%

This system was used to comprehensively evaluate the BVR (Beyond Visual Range) performance of the Eurofighter and other aircraft against an upgraded Su-27 Flanker (comparable to an Su-35 Super Flanker and its equivalents). The studies investigated all aspect best performances from the major systems on each aircraft; avionics, structure (including RCS data), engine performance (including fuel usage), defences and man-machine interfaces. In these tests the French Rafale utilised the Matra-BAe MICA air to air missile (which is the primary AA weapon of the French airforce) while the other aircraft used the Raytheon-Hughes AMRAAM.

These simulations concluded that Eurofighter has a win rating of 82% (100% equals always win, 0% equals always lose, 50% equals parity) against the target aircraft. A more typical way to present this data is as a combat exchange ratio, for the Typhoon this equals 4.5:1. In other words statistically one Eurofighter would be lost for every 4.5 Su-35 fighters shot down. This compares extremely favourably to the other aircraft (see also the BVR Combat Rating table); F-16C Falcon (0.3:1), F-15C Eagle (0.8:1), F-18C Hornet (0.3:1), F-18+ (0.4:1, NB this is not the current F-18E/F which is apparently a downgraded version of the F-18+ used in the studies) and Dassault Rafale (1:1). Only the LM/Boeing F-22 Raptor bettered the Eurofighter's performance with a combat exchange ratio of 10.1:1.

In addition to these overall combat performance results a number of individual comparisons have been made available. Of enormous importance for BVR combat is acceleration at medium altitudes and here the Eurofighter's acceleration at Mach 0.9 and 22,000ft equals that of the F-22. At supersonic velocities (Mach 1.6 and 36,000ft) the sustained turn rate of the Eurofighter betters all but the F-22, while its instantaneous turn rate is superior to the F-22. At low altitudes, Eurofighter can accelerate from 200kts to Mach 1.0 in under 30 seconds. In a similar vain to its supersonic performance, the sustained and instantaneous subsonic turn rates of the Eurofighter are bettered only by the F-22. Only the Rafale comes close to the matching the Eurofighter's capabilities in these comparisons.

An important point to keep in mind when examining this data is that full details on the simulations have not been released. Without this information it is not possible to determine whether Eurofighter optimal profiles were examined at the expense of more varied combat missions. However these studies do give some indication as to the potential of the Typhoon.
But saying that it's all cobblers anyway, much depends how the aircraft is being used tactically and what it's armed/equipped with at the time and to a degree the skill of the pilots.

Comparing the Tornado F3 to the F16 in ait to air combat you'd expect the F16 to win pretty comfortably almost every time. However during some trial or other I sat in the ACMI (Air Combat Manoeuvering Instrumentation) control suite. ACMI is used to track air combat scenario's. In this Scenario 2 F3's were pitched against 6 (yes that's 6) F16's of the RNAF. During this scenario, which involved simulated AWACS covererage the F3's came out victorious, taking down 4 of the F16's before one F3 bought it, with the other two being "taken down" by the last remaining F3. WHich was pretty impressive I thought!

Last edited by swampster; 19 July 2007 at 04:25 AM.
Old 19 July 2007, 08:03 AM
  #38  
DCI Gene Hunt
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As the ONLY actual Typhoon pilot here I can say without question that this bitch can outturn a bat
Old 19 July 2007, 08:39 AM
  #39  
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Bollox

Everybody knows that all you 'pilot' is a dogsh!t brown Mk3 Cortina
Old 19 July 2007, 08:42 AM
  #40  
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Stats mean nothing. How many Mirages did the Sea Harriers bring down without loss. In fact didn't they shoot two down early on in the campaign and then no more Mirages were sent out to fight?

A4-Rs
What are they?

Steve
Old 19 July 2007, 08:50 AM
  #41  
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Skyhawks
Old 19 July 2007, 09:00 AM
  #42  
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I thought they were. So they haven't replaced their Mirages with Syhawks. Skyhawks were being shot down by Sea Darts in the Falklands and are Vietnam war technology.

Just looked on Wikipedia, the A-4AR is an upgrade of the A-4 as the US wouldn't sell them F-16s.

Steve
Old 19 July 2007, 09:20 AM
  #43  
DCI Gene Hunt
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Originally Posted by CrisPDuk
Bollox

Everybody knows that all you 'pilot' is a dogsh!t brown Mk3 Cortina
REALLY....

No, seriously I'm a feckin pilot ...... a TYPHOON pilot as my left hand glare shield keeps reminding me
Old 19 July 2007, 11:24 AM
  #44  
Leslie
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Originally Posted by Janspeed
The delta sux at low speeds!

Very crappy handling side effects at low speed.

The Vulcan was a flying wing at the end of the day, so at high altitude it was ok.

The F-15 can barely turn with a 747, it flies fast, climbs like hell.........
I am really quite surprised at what you say about delta winged aircraft.

The low speed handling of the Vulcan for example was very very good. If you ever saw a full display you would have realised that. It was perfectly capable of doing a figure of eight double turn in each direction well inside the length of the runway at low level and at low speed opening and closing the bombdoors as it was doing it. It could climb into a wing over going inverted at the top to change direction at each end of the crowd line, it could also climb off the runway from a roller landing in the true vertical up to 3-4000 feet depending on the temperature of the day. It was able to land and stop within some 400 yards of the touchdown point. It had to be able to approach slowly enough to do that! It could also out turn an F15 at high level as we proved during Red Flag exercises. It was used as a low level attack bomber for over ten years during the Cold War and was also almost impossible to shoot down at low level since it was manoeuverable enough to stop a fighter getting a "blue sky" shot while flying down the valleys etc. Only a SAM was likely to get us-if it was lucky!

The only side effect it had was that of adverse yaw due to the use of the controls in the aileron sense. All aircraft do this to some extent but it was more marked with the Vulcan particularly at pattern speeds. This was not due so much to the delta wing but to the very effective large elevon controls at the trailing edge. This was actually no problem anyway, it just meant that the pilot soon learned to keep the aircraft in balanced flight while manoeuvring with the use of the very effective rudder. Rather like a single piston engined aircraft in fact.

The ability of the Vulcan to manoeuvre particularly at low level astounded all who saw it especially since it was such a large machine being 111 feet wide and 109 feet long!

Hope that all helps!

Les
Old 19 July 2007, 11:26 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
REALLY....

No, seriously I'm a feckin pilot ...... a TYPHOON pilot as my left hand glare shield keeps reminding me


If that inded be the truth

Then hats off, I'm well jealous
Old 19 July 2007, 11:29 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
REALLY....

No, seriously I'm a feckin pilot ...... a TYPHOON pilot as my left hand glare shield keeps reminding me
Can you stop "beating up" my house then please?

Cheers
AC
Old 19 July 2007, 11:31 AM
  #47  
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PS: Photographic proof is now obviously required

I think following the precedent set by Sarasquares, you in the cockpit with a loaf of bread on your head should do the trick
Old 19 July 2007, 11:51 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by CrisPDuk
PS: Photographic proof is now obviously required

I think following the precedent set by Sarasquares, you in the cockpit with a loaf of bread on your head should do the trick
What about a 'loaf' in the empty 'ejector seat' .... that way I'll remain a man of mystery
Old 19 July 2007, 11:55 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
What about a 'loaf' in the empty 'ejector seat' .... that way I'll remain a man of mystery
Make sure it's the real plane, not the fibreglass mock up that goes to village fairs

Steve
Old 19 July 2007, 12:08 PM
  #50  
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Great programme - what a plane! I was playing in a charity golf do yesterday and there was a team of pilots from the Red Arrows there. Had a chat with them about this in the evening and even they were jealous as hell. Seems like Mr May was a very lucky boy!
Old 19 July 2007, 12:10 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
As the ONLY actual Typhoon pilot here I can say without question that this bitch can outturn a bat
May your canards always remain connected to your computer!

Les
Old 19 July 2007, 12:23 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Leslie
May your canards always remain connected to your computer!

Les
May my dogs dick always select maximum thrust
Old 19 July 2007, 12:26 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
REALLY....

No, seriously I'm a feckin pilot ...... a TYPHOON pilot as my left hand glare shield keeps reminding me

Ok, I'll bite

A question (or two) only a Typhoon pilot or someone close to the programme would know... (google at the ready then?!)

1. What's the pet name given to the bloke who recorded the cockpit voice assistant?

(an easy one)

2. Cockpit left side, panel 6 beside the carriage lights (trache 2 only) what's the selector that was moved over from the right side due to 'design issues'?

Waiting...
Old 19 July 2007, 12:32 PM
  #54  
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Nagging Nora & the lights are on the right hand side
Old 19 July 2007, 12:34 PM
  #55  
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Unless you mean the tanks or programmed jetison??
Old 19 July 2007, 12:37 PM
  #56  
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Final Answer = Emergency Jettison

*barrel rolls through 2 hanger*
Old 19 July 2007, 01:37 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
Nagging Nora & the lights are on the right hand side


Old 19 July 2007, 01:38 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Kuro


I note your answer is not forthcoming


Flt Lt DCI Gene Hunt # Sqn

Last edited by DCI Gene Hunt; 19 July 2007 at 01:40 PM.
Old 19 July 2007, 01:53 PM
  #59  
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I thought last weeks show was dreadful and so removed the series link and deleted it from the planner. He was more boring than the fat grinning man from the excellent programme Coast
It seems I may have missed an exciting episode and shall peruse the channels to see if he has become interesting... Cool!
Old 19 July 2007, 02:54 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt
I note your answer is not forthcoming


Flt Lt DCI Gene Hunt # Sqn
Well, that's because I didn't foolishly annouce to the community that I'm a fighter jock when not posting on Scoobynet

I'm not a pilot, far from it - can't stand flying. There is however a selection of Typhoons a few yards away And a Harrier or two, Hawks, a few Nimrods and of course our trusty corporate travel hack, the 146.


Quick Reply: Heads up - James may getting chucked around in a Typhoon at 8pm



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