Cossie or scoob?
20 July 2007, 09:22 AM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If money wasn't an issue I'd have the Escort cossie. But think you'll have a hard time finding a good example for reasonable money.
Like others have said you can get a 3ish year old JDM for similar money... If I was being practical I'd go for that.
Like others have said you can get a 3ish year old JDM for similar money... If I was being practical I'd go for that.
20 July 2007, 09:23 AM
#32
Take 10 tuned Cossies and then pick the fastest one then put the fastest tuned Cossie up against a box standard Sti Type R Impreza and it is a draw, why not start with the impreza and tune that as it is as quick as the tuned Cossie to start with? Cossie was OK in its day, but the Impreza has moved on and been developed, the Cossie is Dead............Ford took it as far as they wanted and then dropped it.
the top cosworths in the UK are now pushing 700bhp+ so how is that a match for a standard type R? Your average cosworth has 300bhp+ and torque that a Subaru owner can only dream of.
20 July 2007, 09:41 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That test was about as relevant as seeing how far each car could spit a tennis ball out the exhaust! The driving was pretty poor to say the least! Have to say though that nowadays the Sierra based (so designed in 1980!) suspension is shockingly bad, semi trailing rear and front TCA located by an anti-roll bar the wrong side is just not going to match the scoobs multilink Mac rear and L arm front, although the Cossies can be improved (My Sierra has front link for the TCA's and a seperate ARB and a Brooklyn wide track rear) and it has better weight distribution as not all the engine is in front of the front axle line - can you imagine how much a Scoob would understeer with a 29mm front ARB like the Esc Cos?
Simon
Simon
20 July 2007, 10:44 AM
#34
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2007
Location: surrey
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mr palmer...have you ever visited the planet earth??
JC, said he took 10 of the best escort cossies in the country....so where were your 700+ cars??
if your refering to TODAY?? , then these 700+ cars wouldnt stand a chance against the type R of andy (the legend) forrest.
i rest my case.
if they could..then why are they not at 10 of the best etc???
20 July 2007, 10:52 AM
#35
mr palmer...have you ever visited the planet earth??
JC, said he took 10 of the best escort cossies in the country....so where were your 700+ cars??
if your refering to TODAY?? , then these 700+ cars wouldnt stand a chance against the type R of andy (the legend) forrest.
i rest my case.
if they could..then why are they not at 10 of the best etc???
JC, said he took 10 of the best escort cossies in the country....so where were your 700+ cars??
if your refering to TODAY?? , then these 700+ cars wouldnt stand a chance against the type R of andy (the legend) forrest.
i rest my case.
if they could..then why are they not at 10 of the best etc???
The filming was a fix anyway. I know the owner of the Escort (not Mark Shead....the bloke he sold it to) and i can assure you that car will beat pretty much anything that comes up against it. (Ok, not the likes of Andy F)
The reason Ford's don't enter TOTB etc? Not sure really, but keep an eye out for Martin Hadland's Escort when it is back.
20 July 2007, 11:01 AM
#36
mr palmer...have you ever visited the planet earth??
JC, said he took 10 of the best escort cossies in the country....so where were your 700+ cars??
if your refering to TODAY?? , then these 700+ cars wouldnt stand a chance against the type R of andy (the legend) forrest.
i rest my case.
if they could..then why are they not at 10 of the best etc???
JC, said he took 10 of the best escort cossies in the country....so where were your 700+ cars??
if your refering to TODAY?? , then these 700+ cars wouldnt stand a chance against the type R of andy (the legend) forrest.
i rest my case.
if they could..then why are they not at 10 of the best etc???
What is Andy F's top speed? 210mph? Rod Tarry's top speed? 210mph
20 July 2007, 11:14 AM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2007
Location: surrey
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
paul/gary, it does not matter how old that film is, the 2 cars were there??
if your refering to "how would they do today/now?"
then the result would be the same...the top escort (700+bhp) as mentioned by paul, and our type R of andy F...no contest i think
and paul, you cant say that andy F's car is far from standard...because the 700+ bhp cossies are also "far from standard"
in simple terms
a standard cossie, would LOSE to a standard typr R STI
a highly modified cossie (700+ as you mentioned) would LOOSE to our andy's car.
what more do you require?
that black cossie in the film was highly modified (that was stated) and it was the best of the 10 modified cars there.
im also sure that if there was 10 modified type R STI cars there to choose from, it might have been even bigger a gap between the cars.
but what do i know.
i own a type R STI, and have owned a 1994 escort cossie...my escort was fantastic (brodie britian car), but the type R is in a different league
look what happened at newlands corner gary, (on film) with the cossie pulling away from the lights at full chat....it was stamped all over by at least 7 STI's
only chris
(with the camera) was slower (intentional, to film the event)i belive this is also on u tube?
good luck.
20 July 2007, 11:29 AM
#39
Although, some might say that a 280 bhp Impreza should beat a 220 (or was it 227??) bhp Escort anyway.
If it was a fair 'standard Subaru vs standard Coworth' maybe a Turbo 2000 would have been a fairer test, as they are almost the same bhp.
Not taking anything away from the Cossie though, would still consider having one as a replacement to the Impreza when i sell it
20 July 2007, 11:38 AM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ascended to the next level
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That test was about as relevant as seeing how far each car could spit a tennis ball out the exhaust! The driving was pretty poor to say the least! Have to say though that nowadays the Sierra based (so designed in 1980!) suspension is shockingly bad, semi trailing rear and front TCA located by an anti-roll bar the wrong side is just not going to match the scoobs multilink Mac rear and L arm front, although the Cossies can be improved (My Sierra has front link for the TCA's and a seperate ARB and a Brooklyn wide track rear) and it has better weight distribution as not all the engine is in front of the front axle line - can you imagine how much a Scoob would understeer with a 29mm front ARB like the Esc Cos?
Simon
Simon
In either case; a cooking version Nissan Primera has far superior front suspension than both cars (and thats 17 years ago too) . So that's how much water that point holds.
IMO, cossies do feel more antiquated to drive, but they have far superior feedback through the controls...nice solid brake pedal that isn't over-assited and better weighted steering, which in turn gives alot more confidence to drive hard than the remote-control-esq feedback from the average Impreza, unless serious suspension and brake work is carried out (now thats cheating
) and even then its not perfect (Ideally need to bin that master cylinder and brake booster, and change the steering rack to properly sort it IMO ).If I was after a Cossie today, I'd opt for later last of the line T25 version. Ok it doesn't have the homlogation goodies, a smaller turbo and the EECIV is more tricky to tune. But thats what makes it a much better car to drive on the road, less lag and more low-down grunt. Obviously its no good if you want 400+bhp, but then a 400+bhp cossies is a crap road going car....like modded Imprezas of similar BHP (nothing, nothing, wayhey, *bang*, b*gger
).
Last edited by Shark Man; 20 July 2007 at 11:42 AM.
20 July 2007, 12:54 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: location, location, location
Posts: 1,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My mates dad has got a 600bhp escort - had it from new and never gone bang on him. I had a 18 year old 3 door, never had a rebuild on that either. given the choice I'd go for the escort, the cossie engine is far stronger than any subaru engine - fact!! These things will run stupid power all day long if they are looked after! Just do a search on here for engine rebuilds! I had my cossie for 6 years, and all it cost me was a service once a year, I doubt very much you will get any subaru's 20 years old and still good for 400 bhp without missing a beat!!
20 July 2007, 01:36 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was an old vid, Vicki not on Top Gear for ages. The point is that to make an old Escort as fast as an R type it looks like you have to throw buckets of cash at the car, why not get one that was made to do the job from day one and improve that if you must? Never mentioned that the Impreza was modded in the Vid, so I assumed it was box standard. Plus it had a Girl at the wheel.............. 
TBH I short listed 4 cars, had a look around asked advice and visited various forums before settling for the Impreza, they were The Lancia Delta HF Intergale, Toyota GT4 , Skyline R32,R33,R34 and Impreza. I had a Delta HF Turbo before and that put me off the car even though I loved to drive it very much (Rust buckets and dodgy electric's), GT4 it appears has a habit of eating gearbox/Diffs,but a lovely looking car, Skyline to expensive at the time. Plus I remember getting burnt by an Impreza Years ago when I used to drive a Sierra XR4i.Tried an Evo 6 and did not like it, fast but un-involving to drive and no scooby sound track!
TBH I short listed 4 cars, had a look around asked advice and visited various forums before settling for the Impreza, they were The Lancia Delta HF Intergale, Toyota GT4 , Skyline R32,R33,R34 and Impreza. I had a Delta HF Turbo before and that put me off the car even though I loved to drive it very much (Rust buckets and dodgy electric's), GT4 it appears has a habit of eating gearbox/Diffs,but a lovely looking car, Skyline to expensive at the time. Plus I remember getting burnt by an Impreza Years ago when I used to drive a Sierra XR4i.Tried an Evo 6 and did not like it, fast but un-involving to drive and no scooby sound track!
20 July 2007, 05:06 PM
#44
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Scotland, Edinburgh
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The point is that to make an old Escort as fast as an R type it looks like you have to throw buckets of cash at the car, why not get one that was made to do the job from day one and improve that if you must?
Your average cosworth has 300bhp+ and torque that a Subaru owner can only dream of.
20 July 2007, 05:21 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: dorset
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
it's a pointless question, you get the regular freaks who will argue anything and everything is better than a scoob, yet they still troll the subaru forums, i will say a scoob, because i own one, i chose to own one, and i am pretty sure of what i want, if you are unsure then best to ask on an impartial site like pistonheads or similar.
20 July 2007, 05:28 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Oh yeah thats right the Escort Cosworth was designed for doing the shopping in wasn't it.
Just out of interest Paul, why is the torque so much higher? Also, do you know if the same modifications on the two cars will result in the same performance gains given the same maps?
Just out of interest Paul, why is the torque so much higher? Also, do you know if the same modifications on the two cars will result in the same performance gains given the same maps?
Gearboxes are good, clutches.... not so sure on, but the last smaller turbo cars were more drivable than the big turbo models.
Torque wise, the latest JDM cars produce higher torque than BHP
and deliver it much better than the cosworths do, but thats progression, shame really that ford flogged cosworth off 
nice cars but damn they are dated now (and ill stick to my latest JDM spec STi's thank you )Tony
20 July 2007, 05:28 PM
#47
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Must admit, I have a big soft spot for Cossies; they were THE affordable performance car when I was a teenager. However, finding a straight one would be hard, and you always have to remember at it's heart it's a Ford from an era where reliability wasn't great.
If you have the money, I think it'd be great fun, but you'd have to view it as a project. No doubt that there are some very nice examples -and VERY quick ones out there though!
Personally, I'd play safe and stick with a Subaru or Evo. Even a UK turbo can be got to 320bhp+ without needing to spend a fortune, nor incurr any serious penalty in terms of reliability! Maintined and treated properly, they will go on and on and on!
Ns04
If you have the money, I think it'd be great fun, but you'd have to view it as a project. No doubt that there are some very nice examples -and VERY quick ones out there though!
Personally, I'd play safe and stick with a Subaru or Evo. Even a UK turbo can be got to 320bhp+ without needing to spend a fortune, nor incurr any serious penalty in terms of reliability! Maintined and treated properly, they will go on and on and on!
Ns04
20 July 2007, 05:34 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Also known as The Gimp
Posts: 3,662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the Escort Cossie.
I'd take into account mate that find parts for the Cossie are becoming harder to come by now and have to pay lots for the parts where as the P1 parts will be easier to come by.
Steve
I'd take into account mate that find parts for the Cossie are becoming harder to come by now and have to pay lots for the parts where as the P1 parts will be easier to come by.
Steve
20 July 2007, 05:44 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
escort cossies seam to be just show piece nowadays a good car if properly looked after and tuned but just to dated and raw for a fun usable everyday car.
if want somthing nice to polish and show ya mates at wkends get a cossie if you want somthing to use and have fun in get a scoob.
remember, a good escort cossie is gonna set you back over 14k you could get a nice jdm blob for that wich is a way better car than an old escort.
and i beg to differ on the cossie lump is stronger than a sti lump. dont quote me on this but some guy on here is running well over 500bhp on a stock uk sti lump and has been for quite a while.
if want somthing nice to polish and show ya mates at wkends get a cossie if you want somthing to use and have fun in get a scoob.
remember, a good escort cossie is gonna set you back over 14k you could get a nice jdm blob for that wich is a way better car than an old escort.
and i beg to differ on the cossie lump is stronger than a sti lump. dont quote me on this but some guy on here is running well over 500bhp on a stock uk sti lump and has been for quite a while.
20 July 2007, 05:44 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nr Grimsby
Posts: 2,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be fair the cossie was obsolete before it even hit the rally stages, ie its just a shortened sierra that has poor suspension design. Neither sierra or escort acheived anthing of note! That was the reserve of the Delta integrale and celica both are better packages.
The scoob is just a better out the box full stop.
As for parts both are expensive if you buy genuine.
The scoob is just a better out the box full stop.
As for parts both are expensive if you buy genuine.
20 July 2007, 05:48 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2007
Location: surrey
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this is only an observation, but most (most) of the people on posts who are pro other cars, or anti subarus, or who dont proclaim the vertues of scoobys, dont seem to own a scooby, by that i mean they dont have a "view my scooby", or pics in the gallery.
now i know you dont have to put up photos, but most true enthusiasts do.
this is afterall, a subaru forum.
i did say most, so please dont reply saying "i dont want to because...".or "why should i"
it was a generalisation.
i wonder how this thread would run on a cossie forum? any thoughts?
now i know you dont have to put up photos, but most true enthusiasts do.
this is afterall, a subaru forum.
i did say most, so please dont reply saying "i dont want to because...".or "why should i"
it was a generalisation.i wonder how this thread would run on a cossie forum? any thoughts?
20 July 2007, 05:53 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: dorset
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i kinda agree with you, but true enthusiasts surely are too busy being enthusiastic about their scoobs than typing on t'internet, anyhoo, i shall post some pics forthwith.
edit:- i cannot upload piccys, perhaps because i havent payed a fiver to the insulting dude who runs the place, **** happens.
edit:- i cannot upload piccys, perhaps because i havent payed a fiver to the insulting dude who runs the place, **** happens.
Last edited by stara; 20 July 2007 at 06:03 PM.
20 July 2007, 06:39 PM
#54
I have a tuned 3 door cosworth, and have just purchased a WRX blobeye, both have there advantages, cossie is not an everyday car, but pulls stronger and feels faster due to 1.8 bar of boost, different cars altogether, but saying that I would never sell the cossie as I would struggle to find another, the subaru is a better car for everyday use, Never drove an escort, but I prefer the 3 door for looks so wouldn't have one, but in reality the cars are 20 years apart in technology so cannot be compared.
20 July 2007, 09:18 PM
#58
Cossie
But then im a die hard fordy at heart
This is a decision not made with the head but with the heart, yes i'l admit the scooby is better than a cossie but how many cars make your heart skip a beat when you look at them like the Escort cossie does??
Do cars get any better??? Probably not
But then im a die hard fordy at heart
This is a decision not made with the head but with the heart, yes i'l admit the scooby is better than a cossie but how many cars make your heart skip a beat when you look at them like the Escort cossie does??
Do cars get any better??? Probably not
Last edited by frayz; 20 July 2007 at 09:21 PM.
