carnivorous

besides, someone needs to run this governemnt on assumptions rather than figures. it may just work. trying to GET the non-anecdotal evidence is what costs all the money in the first place.

i've teed one up for ya, aim for the fairway and let rip dude.

LMFAO

carnivorous

u tryin to say i'm fat?

don't make me come over there.

PeteBrant

I couldn't possibly take advatange of such a ridiculous statement.

PeteBrant

No, I was saying you were reversing your position - Hence the beep beep beep...










Oh, and calling you fat

Abdabz

WARNING WARNING THREAD HIJACK IN PROGRESS

Brant, put the keyboard down and step away from the thread

Re the OP, yes jobless people who are able but unwilling to work should be given no benefits whatsoever and your idea re forced menial roles in return for benefit is a good one

PeteBrant

On ya bike 'dabz

carnivorous

seriously though....well maybe not......lol.....they keep getting figures wrong, don't they? so in fact, if the figures are often wrong, then on occassion policy and decisions are made without evidence. you never know, the guy supplying the figures could have had an off day. then whoops, all of a sudden there's WMD's everywhere and we have to go to war.

so in effect, it's happening already anyway.

go for your life!

PeteBrant

You're right of course, figures can be made to say what you want them to say - you can spin them to bias towards your point of view.

But you have to base a policy on some kind of solid fact, or as close as you can get, rather than any assumption IMO.

The WMD example is an excellent case in point of policy being made on assumption and "best guesses" rather than facts.

Spoon

I wonder what percentage of people reading this think the same.

Luan Pra bang

Your figures show clearly that there is very little effort being put in to catch
disability fraudsters. Its nigh on impossible to prove unless you catch people going roller blading on video etc hence why loads of people do it with impunity. Its the same as whiplash caims being very hard to prove makes it easier for people to claim.

As a side note why should disabled people get anything from the state ? Stupidity is a disability so does that mean stupid peole will get cash a free cars from the state. If not why not.

PeteBrant

carnivorous

^^^^^^^^^^

now THAT'S the dude you wanna be pickin at mate!

FPMSL!

PeteBrant

Just to be clear. with Mr Spoon and Mr Carnivorous and Mr Adabz, you should know by know, I like a debate. I like lively debate, not arguments. When it comes to political discussin I am quite forthright, because I have an interest in it.

If I disagree with a given point of view, I like to think I give my reasons and defend those reason, If I attack a point of view I give a reason why. I do it because I enjoy the debate, not because I want to be a pain in the **** . Sometimes I might play devils advocate to get people to give more information on thier point of view, but not in a malicious way.

Sincerely no offence is ever meant, and I hope none is taken. And if it is, then, well, tough

Shark Man

Oi.... being a fatty is a disability you know. He's probably claiming benefits for some thyroidthingymi thats caused a bad case of mcdonalditus.

carnivorous

you'll have to try alot harder to insult me mate. i drive a scooby ffs, how much stick do you think i get for the chavmobile from all my audi and bmw driving mates?

i love a good debate, althopugh i do prefer one based on a serious statement rather than a good fun rant of little contextual merit.

besides, you implied i was fat, which is not only personally derogatory towards myself, my girlfriend AND our dog, but is also a direct attack on my person rather than my views.

i've just about had it with you and your snooty "i'm better and more clever and skinnier than you" attitude.

you can expect to be hearing from my solicitors.

Shark Man

Is it on motability though?

carnivorous

WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!
I'm too f'ing obese to do any work! Gimme your tax dollars!

it's KFC-syndrome with a dose of BK-addiction leading to enhanced deposits in my middle area.

pwhittle

it would be very diffucult to get out of now due to people's attitudes / expectations. There was talk a few years ago of a scheme whereby if you earned whilst on benefits, your benefits were still cut, but when you got into permentant employment and signed off, you were give the reduction as a lump sum. With the right controls and conditions, that seems sensible to me.

It may well take a generation to get back to where we should be with regard to lazy attitudes, but if you never make a start, it'll never happen.

And with regard to the post about the size of the benefits pot, a substantial part of that goes to older people, to top up there insulting state pension. It's not by any means all people who 'should' be working.

I would say though that the government doesn't know the level of benefit fraud any more than they know the number of illegal immigrants - and for the same reasons. I expect it would be far higher than the 0.5% stated.

carnivorous

might as well be the speed i drive the thing most days.....

was thinking of converting it to eco-friendly hybrid-drive with a Prius transplant.....

carnivorous

next person that calls me fat, i'm coming over there to sit on your house. i know you built it out of straw, after all, you're not an idiot....!

lozgti

As they used to say in the Black Country

"If yow dow wurk yow dow ate" Not so true anymore "If yow dow goo un soyn on yow dow ate" more like

The financial gain from working should outstrip being on benefits or things will never change.

And there must be jobs out there....just remind me how many immigrants have popped over to do them for the lazy Brits?

Leslie

The whole point, as has been said to you often enough on this thread, is that you hammered into the disabled generally as though they are all to blame for claiming illegally for a disabled badge. Of course there will be those who manage somehow to cheat the system, but you do need to be supported by medical evidence to get a blue badge and if you were really to know, you would not find many who are not deserving of the badge. Yes we do see people jumping out of their cars and go striding down the road, but there are a lot of unsavoury gits who will use a relative's badge, or a counterfeit one that they have bought on the sly. This is very bad of course, those using a relative's badge run the risk of getting it disallowed by the council.

I think you should be a bit more careful begore you slam into the disabled generally, you were being unfair,

Les

PeteBrant

Just to be clear, the 0.5% was disability benefit fraud, not all benefits.

The problem, as I see it, is that you have to give incentive to work, whilst being fair to low earners that do not currently get the same level in benefits.


Example

Person (A) Currently gets £120 per week lone paren tincome support - Plus rent for thier housing association property paid, along with council tax. THe only "bills" they have are gas, electric and food (plus luxuries)

Person (B)Works 37.5 hours per week for £300 a week and with tax credits enjoys a similar lifestyle to person (A), biut, he obviousl yhas to pay the rent and the council tax etc.

How do you convince person (A) to go out to work for no discernable increase in income. You can't add to it, because Person (B) will think "where is the sense in working?"

I quite like the lump sum idea, though.

carnivorous

damn right. and be nice to fat people!

carnivorous

Same solution, different approach. Either make unemployment less desireable, or employment more desireable. Kind of what I was getting at with my OP, albeit in a slightly comedic way.

PeteBrant

Yup, but it is an enourmously difficult thing to do. You can;t just cut peoples money, there would be uproar, and thes epeople aren;t given a fortune - As scunnered said, the genuine cases get about enough to live on.


So you have to find another way. You can't raise the money you give to people to go out and find work, because then you have to give money to eveyone under a certain threshold (i.e. tax credits).

It really is a very difficult problem.

carnivorous

No no no! Keep giving them the money, just make them do stuff that isn't getting done for said money! If we're going to pay people anyway, let's at least get something out of it.

Disabilities aside, which were never targeted in this post anyway BTW, the "honest" benefit claimers to which you continually so vehemently refer would be happy to work for their benefit cheque. I know I would....

So those that "want" to work get paid, those that don't do not.

Where's the flaw in that theory? I know it's not practically possible, but as a theory it's pretty sound IMO.

carnivorous

only problem might be the millions of starving homeless chavs dropping dead in town centres across the UK. OMG imagine the smell....

rotting flesh with shades of Lynx Effect, Greggs sausage rolls and Lambert & Butler.

NICE.

carnivorous

ok i am getting fed up now! where the f*** is the courier with my prodrive badges?! he's gonna be on the social soon if he keeps this up. standards are slipping!

I WANT MY BADGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(stomps feet and screams)

Spoon

Hey it was clear from the start to me. You bored me stupid with figures on a thread that never required any. OP clearly states it was a rant.

If debating is your thing then start another serious thread, simple really.