hardsy555

i have been told that the prodrive sports cat is good for upto 400bhp by a very good source. and what many say about it is total ****. tests have been done with it against a 3" and the difference is neglible (if the cat stays in place), without the cat you could gain 10-15bhp or so.

bob r

iTrader: (46)

Does the PP pack include a Blue intercooler hose aswell?
For the record my Prodrive pump was covered in a black foamy substance.

bob r

iTrader: (46)

The Vortex is 2.5" system.
I have heard the same about backboxes.

I think your figures are acceptable bearing in mind backbox/filter and current temps. I wouldn't start ringing Powerstation and creating, perhaps question them again to satisfy your thoughts.

ZEN Performance

It sounds fine. Powerstation gives low torque figures for some reason, but they are consistent, the important figures should be the before and after, do not under any circumstances compare with published figures, or ones from another rolling road.

hardsy555

was your pump in the fuel tank? and the ppp does not always include the blue hose,mine dosent and i have the certificate to prove instalation.

ZEN Performance

The PPP for the STI doesn't include an intercooler pipe, as the STI comes as standard with an aluminium/silicone pipe. Only the WRX ppp has the silicone I/C pipe to replace the convoluted plastic pipe.

terzo204

No blue pipe but I am not cornerned about that given the comments above.

I have the certificate showing it's PPP

I did ask the mechanics to check the fuel pump but I was told that they should be able tell it's ok from the mapping? I might get it checked to be sure.

If zen is telling me it's fine then i'm a lot happier about the figures. I just thought I would get more.

Zen - do you know if the PS rollers correct the power estimate for temp's and could this be the/part of the answer?

SKS

Terzo,

What kind of filter are you running and how many miles since it was changed or cleaned?
Has your turbo had the wastegate ported?
What boost are you running?
What condition is your intercooler in (bent fins or full of bugs)?
Did you change the plugs (to a colder grade) ahead of the re-map?
Which type of PPP downpipe have you got?

Was reading through the thread and if your figures are calculated flywheel rather than ATW then they do seem low but, high temps aside, explainable.
If your filter is a std element that hasn't been changed in a while then the car's already struggling to breathe well. If the wastegate hasn't been ported and you unluckily got a "Friday afternoon" VF35 then there could well be boost creep problems limiting the amount of boost you're able to run.
If the TMIC has more than a few bent fins and is well clogged with bugs (not slagging here btw - it just happens but has a big effect on charge cooling) then you're not able to effectively cool your intake charge so can't maximise power due to the risk of the earlier onset of detonation. If you haven't put in fresh plugs (and ideally a grade colder due to the increased boost with the remap) then it's possible that knock and or the onset of det are limiting power levels. If you have the older style 'twin dump' PPP downpipe rather than the later bellmouth type these don't flow as well and just don't make as much power.

If some or all of these are factors and have very unfortunately come together for you, it's possible you've got as much safe bhp as PS could extract on the remap.

Just reckoned it was worth asking you before you go back asking PS
" Hey, dude, where's my horsepower? "

Hope this helps. Cheers,

Stewart.



Of course if you've addressed these things and all is shiny, new and free flowing then my post here is pretty much useless!!

terzo204

I'm not sure I would tbh as I am sure PS have done a grand job. They are certainly well respected on here. The problem is I am not a mechanic and therefore not in a position to explain why the hp is lower than I would have expected, only from what I have read on here. I'm just wondering if there may be something wrong.

If as Zen are suggesting this reading might be ok given the mods then I am happier than before.

Any other suitably qualified persons want to comment please do.

Thanks

jay knowles

I dont use my car that often,its a 54 plate sti with the tsl 333 pack,it was a hot day and i took it to eastbourne and it was as good as ever,it was going really well even with the hot conditions.

terzo204

alright dont' rub it in!

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

I would say that's about right for PS rollers given the fact you're running a sports cat and a standard filter (although I surprised an aftermarket one wasn't recommended)..

As Paul has said, PS torque is always low and tranny losses high compared to anywhere else, who's right is down to varied opinion.

A moderately (more so than yours) modded and decatted STI will typically make around 330hp on these rollers, give or take 10hp. So with that in mind and the fact that the torque figure is basically meaningless your map seems fine..

Take it to Well Lane and you'll get 340ish..!

Pity about not having the before and after runs..!

rob2006

iTrader: (1)

how do you distinguish the two of these dowpipes visually whilst its fitted to the vehicle?

Rob

bpm1588

the older"not so good" is heat wrapped and the other would just have a metal finish.

rob2006

iTrader: (1)

I can safely assume this is the fist downpipe prodrive produced? I dont think mine has this blanket/heat wrap around the cat. My car is an 03 but PPP pack wasn't fitted until a few years later. I can see why this older version may be regarded as a restrictive component.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Up until 2005 the bellmouth version also has a silver jacket - it is only after 2005 that the insulation became integrated with the cat canister.....
The d/pipe shown above is easy to spot in the engine bay.
nick

rob2006

iTrader: (1)

Well fingers crossed i should have the bell mouth version as mine was fitted after that date. If i have that twin dump version then it will be off and sold before i go for any remap.

Terzo204 - i would be interested to know which version is fitted to your car matey.

Rob

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

The STi PPP

1) Emapped ECU,
2) Downpipe sports Cat (replacing1st &2nd cats )
3) Back Box
4) Uprated Fuel Pump

The WRX PPP

1) Emapped ECU,
2) 2nd Cat bypass pipe (replacing only 2nd cat)
3) Back Box
4) Blue Y peice Induction hose

Although there a a few stories of Dealers not replacing them IIRC the issues with the Pump was cappacity on Long heavy loads (high speed runs).

TBH the uprated Fuel pump would be unlikely cause of any remapping or during R/Road test, if pressure that low you'd have leaned out the engine and POP. The signs would have been low advance and early Detting.

IMHO

Tony

PS
Maybe better to know how much advance and Boost pressure your car was getting as a better guide than R/R figuses

SKS

Look at the turbo exit where it meets the DP. If there are 2 exit pipes in a 'Y' configuration it's the older style DP. If there's just a large single bell shape tapering into the DP then it's the later type. Pop the bonnet and it'll take all of 10 seconds to establish.

Cheers,

Stewart.

GazTheHat

Torque is low, check you don't have a faulty neutral position switch.

I had this after stage 1 and the torque made 275lb. Changed under warranty and then got the correct figures.

It was easily identifiable when mapping on the road.

terzo204

Thanks GazTheHat.

Will do.

Not sure what down pipe I have but I will have a look

terzo204

Tony

Thanks for clarifying that about the PPP.

What it advance? Bost pressure may be shown on the print out 1.35?

GazTheHat

It's a known fault too, so warranty/change should be fine. It's not immediately noticeable though and can switch on/off (even in the same gear). So sometimes you've full VVT, other times not.

terzo204

So what does this switch do and do you know how much it would cost to get it checked and how much to replace it?

rob2006

iTrader: (1)

Ahh, bloody heat shield is in the way i cant get a good look. Although from what i can see i think it is the later bell mouth design...

GazTheHat

It controls the Variable Valve Timing and tells the car if it is in neutral. It has a big impact on your torque.

When AndyF showed me mine, it was switching on in 2nd, off in 3rd, On & Off in 4th. It changed all the time. So i kept thinking my wife had switched the car into low boost.

It's about 1/2hr to change. Cheap part. Will be done no quibbles if you're in warranty. "Faulty Neutral Position Switch".

If they ask how you know, just say it's been on a rolling road because you felt the power was down. That showed it.

terzo204

thanks

terzo204

Having just read the below text on another thread, this makes me think that I am falling into the trap of relying too much on the top end figures. My concerns re torque may be due to differences in rr's.

Having had the benefit of 4 days driving I now am a lot happier about what I have had done to the car. Even my G/F has commented about how smoother the car is now and it definately pulls better through the gears and more so lower in the rev range.

I think one other thing to say is that the change to the power delivery masks the experience of the increased power, in that its difficult to judge the change in output when that output is delivered in a different way.

My problem is that I was expecting too much from the changes I made and dare I say it probably by the eggsaturated claims made on here. I can see why though - read the text below!

That said, the more I drive the car the more I am happy with the results. Having driven the car along with something I know has'nt changed (after a run out with my bro on his motorbike) I know for sure now that the car is quicker and drives without so much effort on my part.

A happier Mike m


Originally Posted by MikeWood
We are finding now that Powerstation give slightly higher figures than they used to, the testing we did last week confirmed that the power figures are very similar but the torque at PS is lower than both PE and WRC. As an example the numbers for the WRX are
PE 269/308 (bhp/lbft)
PS 269.5/292
WRC 264.5/330
We'll probably quote something close to the PE numbers as we've correlated them previously to our engine dynos at MK.

This is what makes it very difficult for the customer as he could reasonably expect to be told when he's trying to compare the different packages offered that he'll get nearly 40lbft more torque using a WRC kit when the reality is that it could the same as a spec at PS with 40lbft less.

XXX quote figures from Prosport which have recently shown the produce much higher numbers than PS as well, difference is torque was similar to PS v WRC but power was up by a big chunk as well. All a bit misleading if the numbers are taken at face value.

Regards

Mike

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

so very true, it's all about drivability no good having having all or nothing


That's very much like the PM I had of Mike after bumping into him at Powerstation, Oh it is

Tony

terzo204

I'm not proporting to have quoted this myself, but reading the thread where you posted it originally, I thought it was relavent to this one. Interesting is'nt it and Zen was right.

Car's definately faster overall and driveability increased - I juast should have kept an open mind when initially evaluating the change

Mike (an ever happier bunny)