DNA National Database for everyone!
05 September 2007, 10:05 PM
#61
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How long before the "genitic" profiling starts?
Analysis of the data shows that persons with the strand "GTTA" commit more crimes, therefore ALL persons with that strand / slice wil commit a crime at some point, so there all Guilty lets lock them away,
A small camp in the country, where they can be reintegrated to society...??
"A shower on your arrival ????"
Perhaps if the govstapo got off its backside and introduced solid border controls and immigration, we wouldn't be in the mess were in now
Mart
PS pissy if your such a fan of the communist big brother ideal, i,ll happily pay for a one way ticket to Russia for you,
Mart
Analysis of the data shows that persons with the strand "GTTA" commit more crimes, therefore ALL persons with that strand / slice wil commit a crime at some point, so there all Guilty lets lock them away,
A small camp in the country, where they can be reintegrated to society...??
"A shower on your arrival ????"
Perhaps if the govstapo got off its backside and introduced solid border controls and immigration, we wouldn't be in the mess were in now
Mart
PS pissy if your such a fan of the communist big brother ideal, i,ll happily pay for a one way ticket to Russia for you,
Mart
05 September 2007, 10:14 PM
#63
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You misjudge me .............. when we catch them, we kill them .... end of.
Society does not want scumbags ... remove them, permanently.
Society does not want scumbags ... remove them, permanently.
05 September 2007, 10:56 PM
#67
then when the labour (well any government because they are all as bad as each other) govt sell the DNA database to insurance companies in 2 years time to cover their huge huge debts and you can't get life/health insurance because your genes are defective don't come crying to me.
Oh G*d, not this stupid myth again.
Right, please try to remember and understand this because I'm getting sick of repeating this for the benefit of the many people here who love to spout off without actually bothering to do any research (yep, it's the ScoobyNet way).
Right: the information contained on the DNA database consists of three things:
1) The results of a gender test.
2) The results of a test to determine whether the subject has red hair (yes, really).
3) The true profile, which contains no useful information whatsoever, since it consists of a load of so-called "junk DNA" (look up Short Tandem Repeats). This DNA does not express itself - that is, does not make your body do anything and thus would tell an insurance company precisely nothing.
M
05 September 2007, 11:00 PM
#68
Link?
Edit - found it. And it's 500,000. And all that's wrong is the names because guess what - crims give false names. And the worst possible outcome (from the story here)?
MPs have questioned whether the false data could lead to innocent people, whose names may have been maliciously given to police by suspects, being questioned about crimes they have not committed.
OMG innocent people might be interviewed!! Because obviously that never happens at the moment...
M
Last edited by _Meridian_; 05 September 2007 at 11:19 PM.
05 September 2007, 11:38 PM
#70
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Oh G*d, not this stupid myth again.
Right, please try to remember and understand this because I'm getting sick of repeating this for the benefit of the many people here who love to spout off without actually bothering to do any research (yep, it's the ScoobyNet way).
3) The true profile, which contains no useful information whatsoever, since it consists of a load of so-called "junk DNA" (look up Short Tandem Repeats). This DNA does not express itself - that is, does not make your body do anything and thus would tell an insurance company precisely nothing.
M
Right, please try to remember and understand this because I'm getting sick of repeating this for the benefit of the many people here who love to spout off without actually bothering to do any research (yep, it's the ScoobyNet way).
3) The true profile, which contains no useful information whatsoever, since it consists of a load of so-called "junk DNA" (look up Short Tandem Repeats). This DNA does not express itself - that is, does not make your body do anything and thus would tell an insurance company precisely nothing.
M
DNA is DNA and data can be extracted from it. Re the it cant make the body do anything, I dont recall anyone saying it did.
The truth is we/you dont understand enough about DNA, and how it works in a medical way, the human genome is still being decoded.
and yes i do know a bit about DNA / genetics, try having MD in the family
Mart
05 September 2007, 11:58 PM
#71
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New Government Announcement
Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Protection of the People Act 2007
1 In all legislation which has received the Royal Assent at the time of passing this bill -
(1) The following changes to such legislation shall take effect as from this date -
(a) remove the word 'subject', inasmuch as it refers to an individual person, likewise the word 'citizen', and
(b) replace with the word 'suspect'
Protection of the People Act 2007
1 In all legislation which has received the Royal Assent at the time of passing this bill -
(1) The following changes to such legislation shall take effect as from this date -
(a) remove the word 'subject', inasmuch as it refers to an individual person, likewise the word 'citizen', and
(b) replace with the word 'suspect'
06 September 2007, 12:15 AM
#72
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Finally!!
Some sensible views from the Judges bench .....
This is something I have long been a supporter of ......
EVERYONE on the DNA database .... I would also add blood sample and fingerprints.
Start in the Pikey Parks, Council Estates and Gypsy Camps ..... that will solve 95% of all crime.
Then migrate into the more affluent areas to mop up the final 5%.
Anyone who objects would be guilty of a criminal offence and therefore need their DNA, Fingerprints, photo taken in any case
Lets fight back, lets get this country into the kind of place where your grannies and daughters can walk the street at night, where you can drive the car of your choice and park it where you wish, where the door on your house is locked simply to stop the wind blowing it open.
Some sensible views from the Judges bench .....
This is something I have long been a supporter of ......
EVERYONE on the DNA database .... I would also add blood sample and fingerprints.
Start in the Pikey Parks, Council Estates and Gypsy Camps ..... that will solve 95% of all crime.
Then migrate into the more affluent areas to mop up the final 5%.
Anyone who objects would be guilty of a criminal offence and therefore need their DNA, Fingerprints, photo taken in any case
Lets fight back, lets get this country into the kind of place where your grannies and daughters can walk the street at night, where you can drive the car of your choice and park it where you wish, where the door on your house is locked simply to stop the wind blowing it open.
That is how all freedom is lost, with the these ideas!
All you have to do is let the cops have more "fun", that should solve most problems!
06 September 2007, 12:22 AM
#73
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Link?
Edit - found it. And it's 500,000. And all that's wrong is the names because guess what - crims give false names. And the worst possible outcome (from the story here)?
OMG innocent people might be interviewed!! Because obviously that never happens at the moment...
M
Edit - found it. And it's 500,000. And all that's wrong is the names because guess what - crims give false names. And the worst possible outcome (from the story here)?
OMG innocent people might be interviewed!! Because obviously that never happens at the moment...
M
This is what we need protection from.... and we don't need a DNA test to show that...
06 September 2007, 12:38 AM
#75
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No, but these innocent people WILL have there DNA taken if they are arrested....
and will it be destroyed if they are cleared from the enquiry?
NO!!!
And therein lies the true crux of the matter, despite the usual sugary spin, and despite all assurances that data will be destroyed, Evidence has been found that chief constables are being told via the HMG not to destoy the data, when a person is cleared from an enquiry or found not guilty..
How can you expect us to put our trust in you, when you dont respect our basic rights.
i,d also like to hear how the DNA databse will prevent / aid the war on terrorism, as were told ?
Mart
06 September 2007, 08:14 AM
#76
If its junk then and dosent tell anyone anything and has no usefull imnformation, how is it of use to the feds?
DNA is DNA and data can be extracted from it. Re the it cant make the body do anything, I dont recall anyone saying it did.
The truth is we/you dont understand enough about DNA, and how it works in a medical way, the human genome is still being decoded.
and yes i do know a bit about DNA / genetics, try having MD in the family
Mart
DNA is DNA and data can be extracted from it. Re the it cant make the body do anything, I dont recall anyone saying it did.
The truth is we/you dont understand enough about DNA, and how it works in a medical way, the human genome is still being decoded.
and yes i do know a bit about DNA / genetics, try having MD in the family
Mart
Then you need to get your MD in the family to brief you a bit better. And if we're playing "my expert is better than yours", then I should point out that one of the DNA teams who do the work is just down the corridor from where where I work.
1) Yes, info on DNA can be extracted from a sample, but it isn't. The bits that show whether you are liable to develop cancer etc aren't looked at. As I'm sure I said, the bit being looked at is the junk DNA of the STR region.This was chosen deliberately many years ago (actually it's the other way around - the region was discovered, and Jeffries (IIRC?) worked out what use it might have) because there is a big variation of the region between every generation, making distinguishing between relatives easy (except identical twins). All the DNA profile does is examine the relative abundance of the various types of short strand. IT HAS NO USEFUL INFORMATION, except in the same way that a fingerprint has useful information, purely be being (nearly) unique. You can't examine a fingerprint and get it to tell you anything about the person being examined, and the same is true of the DNA profile. Why do people find this so hard to understand?
It is useful to the feds because it varies so much - to all intents and purposes (and yes, that is a serious simplification) it is random in every person, at least to a degree. And that degree is also known pretty well.
The DNA sample is destroyed in analysis, so no further tests can be done.
2) Actually we understand a lot about DNA, with one exception: what specific genes do. In the case of STR it is known precisely (and has been for twenty years) that it is junk.
M
06 September 2007, 08:28 AM
#77
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So we are going to trust a falable system to tell us when to kill people because they might have commited a crime??? So what happens if data is miss recoroded, miss filed or even someone deposits some of your hair at a crime scene and a genuinely innocent person is sentanced to death..Damn your logic is flawless
06 September 2007, 09:16 AM
#79
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So what your saying is **** technology?? unless we have 100% evidence that they raped this young 4 year old girl or beat up and killed this old guy [examples] they should go free despite the fact DNA proves otherwise??? if DNA was the only evidence why should it not be used????? please tell me ya not another do gooder??
DNA evidence on its own is not going to convict anyone.
To flip it round, should we discount everyone from investigations that has not left a DNA trace at the scene of a crime?
Having a DNA database of everyone would not automatically mean that more crimes are solved, you still need to build a case.
And yes, you need to be 100% certain that person X did the crime, that what is called "beyond all resonable doubt"
06 September 2007, 09:21 AM
#80
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Technology is not the answer to everything.. We have the technology to clone human embryos and use embryos to grow replacement organs and tissue but its morally wrong.
06 September 2007, 09:29 AM
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I don't think it's morally wrong at all - There are strict controls. You aren't allowed to work on embryos after the 14 day period (hopefully this will be extended to 40 days soon) and the news that animal-human work can now start is excellent news.
Actually I'll stop there; this is probably a discussion for another thread, a bit off topic
06 September 2007, 09:39 AM
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06 September 2007, 10:43 AM
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The problem is, Les, that I think that politicians are to some extent hiding behind the lack of investment and numbers of police by insisting we need these new measures to fight crime.
See also the recent attacks by Brown and Cameron on violent media (films and such)
Sort out the basics first, you know, get the necessary investment in the police force, give them the numbers they need as well as sorting out the prisons problem as and giving real incentive for people to behave themselves.
Then come back and say we need to have a DNA databse when all of that doesnt work.
See also the recent attacks by Brown and Cameron on violent media (films and such)
Sort out the basics first, you know, get the necessary investment in the police force, give them the numbers they need as well as sorting out the prisons problem as and giving real incentive for people to behave themselves.
Then come back and say we need to have a DNA databse when all of that doesnt work.
I personally don't think they actually want to do anything to stop crime anyway, it will all help them to eventually have total control over every thing that we do and say. It is easier to take over a country which has descended into moral depravity and complete apathy!
This really has been the most shameful period of our history by far I reckon.
Les
06 September 2007, 11:05 AM
#85
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Doesnt everyone remember when CCTV filled every town centre? Remember how much up-roar that caused.. *BUT* Violent crimes were going to be a "thing of the past" so we accepted it... Last time I checked violent crimes are at an all time high?
06 September 2007, 11:46 AM
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[quote=_Meridian_;7232453]Then you need to get your MD in the family to brief you a bit better. And if we're playing "my expert is better than yours", then I should point out that one of the DNA teams who do the work is just down the corridor from where where I work. M/[quote]
MD as in Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy!
And yes we were very well briefed
and i think on that area, my experts were very well qualified.
Mart
MD as in Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy!
And yes we were very well briefed
and i think on that area, my experts were very well qualified.
Mart
06 September 2007, 12:15 PM
#88
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Link?
Edit - found it. And it's 500,000. And all that's wrong is the names because guess what - crims give false names. And the worst possible outcome (from the story here)?
M
Edit - found it. And it's 500,000. And all that's wrong is the names because guess what - crims give false names. And the worst possible outcome (from the story here)?
M
my point exactly. half a million errors in a system to cross-check criminal activity. not very reassuring is it? why weren't the records pressure-tested for accuracy on collection? because the processes behind this are inadequate.
national database? forget it. recipe for ID chaos.
06 September 2007, 12:20 PM
#89
**
my point exactly. half a million errors in a system to cross-check criminal activity. not very reassuring is it? why weren't the records pressure-tested for accuracy on collection? because the processes behind this are inadequate.
national database? forget it. recipe for ID chaos.
my point exactly. half a million errors in a system to cross-check criminal activity. not very reassuring is it? why weren't the records pressure-tested for accuracy on collection? because the processes behind this are inadequate.
national database? forget it. recipe for ID chaos.
