MJW

I think that statement should be replaced with this one :

'the fact is nearly all the troubles in the world over the past 100 years have been caused by, or made worse by the UK and the US'



<zips up flame suit>

Eeeh its just like the good old CWE days ...

Geezer

Not really, they have been responsible for more than any other single country.
OK, all was maybe a bit strong, but they are the leaders by some margin!

Geezer

warrenm2

getting there!

dnc

I'll not get involved in this political scrum - suffice to say my views tally closer to those of Warren and GR than to the other contributors. I'd like to thank Michael Moore though, for catalysing the best debate for a while on SN
DNC

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It is a little strong to blame the US for all the troubles over the past fifty years, I think it's only since 'Dubya' came in to office that things have gone downhill. The US public is so patriotic (and there's nothing wrong with that) and perhaps so insular thet they will do whatever their President tells them.

Holy Ghost

**

naturally excluding the 80 million dead in two world wars, both instigated by germany; the 5 million dead in the korean war, instigated by a north korean communist invasion of the south; a near-thermonuclear exchange over cuba, instigated by the USSR etc etc etc.

may i suggest a nomex 'inferno' suit instead? flame suit is a bit gay and inadequate in these circumstances ...

PeteBrant

That quite a simplification there over some hugely complex issues.

Of course excluding WW2, which is probably the single most justifiable war in history, certainly in modern times at least.

Holy Ghost

**

eh? feels like i've just fallen into the judaean people's front sketch in 'life of brian'.

sorry, I'M oversimplifying here? patronising eejit. it's you, MJW and geezer who have been making the sweeping, simplified generalisations about how the US and the UK are to blame for all global flare-ups, when they patently, historically and evidentially aren't. if you think the world is black and white then fine. but it's actually all shades of grey.

i'm just pointing out the significant inconsistencies in some of these observations - like MJW's 'the fact is nearly all the troubles in the world over the past 100 years have been caused by, or made worse by the UK and the US', posted above.

Geezer

Well, I did say the last 50 years, so that doesn't cover WWI, WWII or Korea

However, on a more serious note, the exchange over Cuba is a classic example of why the US has such terrible double standards and is a danger to everyone.

It is somehow ok for the US to have thousands of warheads sitting in Western Germany close to the USSR, but not ok for the Soviets to base them on their allies soil close to the US!

If you can't see that, then it is YOU who are truly blinkered.

Geezer

PeteBrant

If you could just point me to where I said any such thing, thanks.

Holy Ghost

**

fair point. i apologise for wrongly lumping you in with the others.

PeteBrant

No worries.

Holy Ghost

**

actually the comment was aimed at MJW, rather than you, as my post very clearly indicated. oh well.

i have to say though, if this is how you view the cold war - and the hot war that created it - then you've got a lot of reading to do. you don't seem to understand MAD, nor detente for that matter. don't forget the eastern european deployment of nuclear weapons, also in their thousands - by the warsaw pact. oh, not forgetting their massively overwhelming levels of armour that general sir john hackett modelled would reach the channel in just 5 days.

move. countermove. kruschev, under intense politburo pressure, overplayed his hand in cuba in response to the NATO titan II deployment in turkey - with nearly disastrous results. ask your parents.

personally i think NATO ultimately played a blinder in the cold war, with a dazzling finish from the reagan administration that slit the soviet union's jugular - bankrupting the whole sordid, genocidal regime with the illusion of SDI.

perhaps you think that was the wrong result? after all, the US is a danger to everyone.

judgejules

The cuban missile crisis was instigated by the US who started to build missile bases in Turkey on the USSR border.

Geezer

Fairly unequivocal I would say.

But whatever, I am well aware of the cold war and all it's ramifications, but the fact remains that the world was a safer place then, with clear lines of de-marcation, and now the US thinks it can do what it likes.

Geezer

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I wonder if views/opinions have changed in the five years since this thread was posted.

Shaid

Yes, some people are waking up and smelling the coffee but the many are still deluded into thinking they are on some sort of liberating mission and it's nothing to do with natural resources.

EddScott

Never thought it was for anything else really.

/shrugs

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Whilst I don't buy in to all the conspiracy theories I don't think the US is on some altruistic jaunt.
As once said Henry Kissinger, an integral figure in U.S. foreign policy, holding positions in the Nixon, Ford and Reagan administrations and of over a dozen books on US foreign policy and affairs, "America has NO friends, only interests". In other words, the US has temporary allies, as long as they are useful, they will continue to have a "special" relationship with the US administration.

Shaid

Is it a shame as overall the US and the science that comes out of it is great. It's just the meddling with affairs and terrorism that lets it down bug time.

JackClark

Don't meddle with Terrorism for **** sake, let the nutters crack on.

Shaid