53WRX,
It doesn't necessarily mean you are paying £1075 only for the ECU map but also for all the testing work that has been carried out.
My job is a software test engineer (performing conformance testing/verification/validation of mobile terminals) and there is a lot of work involved after development before a product is released in the market. This involves live network, simulation tests etc. which cost a lot of money; I believe the same idea applies in automotive testing.
There is nothing wrong in mapping a car yourself or at your local RR but which of these mappers has undertaken exhaustive testing of their products under the conditions a car is likely to encounter during its lifetime? It's the driver/end user that does the testing in this case

 

Really ! It was a question as to why the PPP is loaded with what looks like such obvious margins, when on balance it seems the Premium is grander than the product.

Taking PPP out of the equation for a moment, as a customer I really don't care how much it costs to develop any product. If you have to charge such high premiums to deliver a product which isn't percieved to punch the weight its billed at, it is economically flawed.

I understand the development costs, constraints, etc etc but these are all excuses which do not alter the fact that the PPP is clearly over priced and subsidised by fears over warranty. Infact marketed off the back of warranty warnings. I don't think this serves subaru customers well and its not surprising that people choose alternative routes.

I don't think this is an unfair comment having bought and tested both options

 

I had a PPP fitted from new on the 04 WRX Wagon I owned before my present 07 WRX. When I came to insure it I was delighted that my insurance company didn't want anything extra as the PPP was included on the options list for the car!

That saved me quite a lot of money over the three years I owned the car compared to what I would have been charged for a car modified with aftermarket parts.

 

We live in the UK.... over priced is something we should be used to . Did you buy a UK car, presume so as you have a Spec D.... if so why did you pay £26k when you could have got a euro sti for less than 22k (ignoring the very small spec D differences). Presume it wasn't for the warranty . Most people buy UK cars beacuse... fears over warranty. Infact marketed off the back of warranty warnings. I don't think this serves subaru customers well and its not surprising that people choose alternative routes.

Tony (UK owner).

 

Shouldn't go unquestioned though

I bought my car 12 months old 7k miles and 11k cheaper than the list
Im not bothered about warranty because I took the trouble to research my modifications and find a top notch mechanic that guarrantees his work. The warranty in its entirety isn't lost and I have protected the bits that would be contested.

In terms of insurance I found PPP to be no easier/more expensive to insure than a modified car to the same spec. The fact that you have experienced cheaper insurance than you expected doesn't make the PPP good value.

 

how much it will this cost and where else can i do it?
oR if this can be done only by prodrive

 

Simple example would be the useful parts off the STi PPP package plus an uprated panel filter.

Decat rear centre pipe £100 fitted at H&S
Fuel pump and Filter £150 fitted at Mocom Racing
Remap £400 at Mocom Racing
Sports Cat/Decat Down Pipe (pays your money takes your choice here)
If its a New Age WRX you might want an uprated Intercooler Y pipe which is around £50.

This should see you to a healthy 270+BHP/275+FtLbs

 

So does the figures stated in prodrive are real for 06/07My wrx? Couse i have read a lot of posts about PPP not adding hp and torque as it states officially...

 

A fool and his money are soon parted springs to mind.
Prodrive charge a silly amount of money for their products. But don't blame them, its the consumers fault. Most UK consumers are too lazy to educate themselves and as such get ripped off then moan after its happened.

Mike Wood gave me some excellent advise on prodrive products when I needed it but to suggest that the PPP is the only safe map is a falicy.

If you take a look on here on all of the cars mapped by Andy.F, Bob Rawle and Jolly Green Monster you wont see (m)any complaints about engines blowing up.

And if you want to look at scoobyECU's which are the generic postal map for pre 1996 cars which can take a UK turbo from 208bhp to 280 bhp with a decat and panel filter then you'll struggle to see many of these with problems relating to the map.

Prodrive products are overpriced, they benefit from excellent service and in the case of the PPP a warranty but you can get a better product from an independant for way less cash. Prodrive may try to convince you your car will blow up if you use anyone but them but in reality if you choose a well respected tuner/mapper then they'll likely give you better service than prodrive, as they'll work very hard to keep their reputation intact and charge you a reasonable sum.

If prodrive need to use highly expensive testing kit for their upgrades then maybe they could have a word with some of the mappers listed above, they seem to be able to provide safe maps time and time again for a fraction of the cost of prodrives.

Incidentally I'd probably use prodrive if they could custom map and half their prices, and I'm sure a lot more on here would too, but as I said to begin - if they can get customers to pay their prices then good on them.

 

Just to say that if I had the cash I would have fitted PPP from new and kept the warranty intact.

Sadly it took me three years to pay for the car, and the warranty wasn't an issue by then, so went independant...

Dunx

 

That pretty much sums things up, informed customers are only interested in the PPP because you retain the warranty. If warranty is not an issue go independant.
I agree with the previous comment on here, people should be saying 'I chose PPP because its amazing and the best value' not 'I only chose it because I keep the warranty'. Prodrive already have a massive one up on the independants in that their parts are sold through the subaru dealership network so are available to customers at the time of vehicle purchase, its a real shame they dont also supply the best value upgrades.

 

Twenty years ago I got my SAAB 900 16 valve turbo well tweaked for £250 notes not a million miles from Prodrive. Handing over the cash, I asked why the Bentley Turbo was so expensive at £1750. "Well", said a certain ex saloon car racing driver, "we used to advertise it in The Sunday Times for £750 and only did about three cars. Then one Sunday, the print setters made a mistake and the advert erroneously appeared as £1,750. We've been doing three cars a week ever since!"

Turned out that people with very expensive cars thought that getting loads more BHP for just £750 was too iffy, but £1750 somehow gave it the credibility!

Unbeknown to the guy, I also owned a Bentley, but I promised not to share with the Bentley Drivers Club members what he had just told me . . . on one condition, yep, my turbo got tweaked for the £750!

 

Yes i hawen got the waranty so where i cam do this or who can do it for me around southampton????

 

I can map it from your house. Exhaust can be bought from various places and fit yourself.. or Subaru4you in Newbury can supply and fit etc..

Simon

 

Speak to simon above,will be able to sort you out with the mapping side no problem..... highly reccomended guy

 

I've only had my 2002 Wrx Wagon for a few months, want to live with it for a bit before looking at upgrades.

At the moment, my first choice would be Prodrive PPP for the following reasons:

Warranty - currently have Subaru proven and so would like to keep that. May even look at extending it.

Peace of mind - Prodrive have a great reputation for working with Subaru's, this makes me feel comfortable with them. I also like Mike's point above - I don't neccessarily want the most power, I want a good even delivery and stronger torque, I also want the mods to be fairly 'gentle' and hopefully not strain the rest of the car too much, such as the gearbox/clutch.

Insurance - seems to give you a wider choice as some companies recognise PPP as an option - including I believe Privilege which I currently have (incredibly cheap) cover with.

None of this means that I think custom upgrades are in any way 'wrong', it is certainly something I would consider. However this is my main family car and for the reasons above I would feel happiest getting this done by Subaru/Prodrive themselves.

I do understand why people think it's expensive - but how many of us buy protected no claims and extended warranties for the same reason? Again, it suits some and not others.

It does seem that some of the expense is recouped come resale time as well, certainly in comparison to other modifications. Another thing which might have helped is the offer to buy PPP for £1000 ish for members of the SIDC - I guess this offer is not running any more?

While I'm here - Mike I notice on that link for expected outputs it does not list the MY02 WRX, only the STi - can you still get it for my car and if so what are the figures?

prodrive

Thanks.

 

Your other points were good ones, but dont fall for everything prodrive tell you with regards to their map being 'better' than other independants. Remember prodrive have a vested interest in selling you expensive upgrades (ie to justify their existance), its up to you to decide if they are worth it or not. I myself have prodrive professional suspension on my car, it was very expensive compared to the alternatives but at the time I upgraded I felt it was the best choice for me, however I was under not under the illusion that it represented value for money, it was right for what I wanted though.

Any of the respected mappers on here will be able to adjust the map to suit what you want within the limits of whatever bits you have on your car, and imho they will do a better job of it for a more reasonable cost than prodrive.

 

Borat - agreed, I don't expect their map to be better than others (although I do expect it to be good and driveable), I think my main point is that for someone like me Prodrive is a pretty good option as it meets my needs in other areas too.

Still interested to know from Mike or others information on a 2002 WRX PPP.

 

Something else that needs to be considered is that A PPP`d car is going to appeal to a wider audience when it comes to selling it. Not just the hardened car nut`s who know a thing or two about who`s who ,and what mods are what.

JAse

 

Two genuine questions I'd like to ask, in no way loaded as I would just like to understand the 'typical PPP buyer' ...

Do you understand the parts and changes PPP makes to your car ?

Why are you worried about warranty on a car worth £6k to the extent that you would pay £1400 to maintain it?

 

53 WRX - No problem, here's how I see it.

Yes, I understand the parts and changes. I've spoken to friends with PPP, standard cars and other mods, also a lot of info on Scoobynet and of course the Prodrive site. I've also driven a PPP Wagon 1 year newer than mine and thought it made a big difference.

Regarding the warranty - it came with one when I bought it from a Subaru dealer (Subaru proven). This is my first Impreza (and to be honest first decent car!) and not having the experience of owning one before I wanted my first one to be a 'safe' option and i was (rightly or wrongly) worried about buying a wrong-un which had been badly modified, thrashed on a track etc.

I was glad about this when my alternator went, see this thread:

https://www.scoobynet.com/lighting-o...-charging.html

Subaru assist turned up an hour after I called with a flatbed (they understood it was 4wd and therefore they couldn't tow it) took it to the dealer who fitted the new alternator - all free.

It's not just the money either - it's the hassle it saved me. I've got 2 young kids and work long hours so don't really want to waste valuable free time dragging my car to a garage. Or at least when I do I want it to be to get fun stuff fitted!

So, getting back to why PPP appeals to me - it will improve the performance of my car but still give me the option of extending warranty if I choose (think it costs about £500-£600). It should also give me more options on insurance, not cause me any MOT issues and shouldn't negatively affect the value of the car when I sell it on. Agree that £1700 is a lot to pay which is why I pointed out above that it appealed a lot more when I saw the SIDC offer ot about a grand.

In brief - I'm a Scooby novice, a bit of an old woman, I want to enjoy and potentially improve my car without worrying too much!

As to why other people have bought it - I would be interested to hear their opinions.

I'll finish by saying that I'm glad there are so many options out there for improving the performance and handling of our cars, this means there is an option to suit everyone.

 

Good answer You have to do what you think is right.

I don't know if you have read the thread through as I have posted my own experiences of PPP on MY03 WRX and explained the reasons why I wouldn't go down the PPP route again.

WRX PPP gives you a Silicone Intercooler Y pipe, decat centre pipe, an unecessary Back box and a remap. These parts total about £600 fitted without the unecessary Back box. Basically the PPP does not consistently make the figures claimed and whilst the BB makes it sound faster by Prodrives own admission the figures are obtained on test track conditions and not on the road. My MY03 was road mapped by a track day specialist and it was awesome. It blew the PPP away, not in terms of brut power but smoothness of delivery and consistent power. The PPP always felt lumpy and the power delivery required pretty hard driving to get the best out of it, not so with the Remap.

Reliability has never been an issue and I don't buy Prodrives negative marketing about warranty and reliability when cars are modified like for like. I do however consider myself lucky to have a good relationship with my car specialist and I appreciate not everyone has one down the road

In terms of resale see my earlier posts.

One thing I would say is that PPP on a 5 year old WRX is not necessarily as mechanically a sure thing as fitting new. Personally I would want more than a generic map and a few parts fitted by a dealer. Specialist tuners spend hours monitoring the car that's infront of them before during and after any performance changes are made. Something PPP will NOT do because of its pre packaged mass market assumption based implementation.

When I had my WRX mapped we saved the PPP map and reloaded it when I sold it. If you bought a decat centre and Y-pipe in theory you could get hold of the PPP map. I only make this point as the transition to custom map doesn't seem such a big deal when broken down to the constituent parts of the PPP.

All the best, if you do go PPP make sure you screw them into the ground on price

 

Will do, thanks! I appreciate your advice as you have experience of both.

In fact this thread is a good example of why Scoobynet can still be useful - a friend of mine used to be a regular on here but claims it's gone badly downhill - I would have to say that threads like this suggest otherwise!