Any lazy bugger postman on here
12 October 2007, 11:10 PM
#32
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At Christmas I looked out to see my postie as a young, tracksuited ethnic struggling to push letters through doors with one hand as he had a sandwich in the other, followed by his pot-bellied, hoop-earinged, cap-wearing 'lady friend'. That day I got the mail for all 6 of the houses on my row 
In the past I was almost blacklisted from several e-tailers as most of the DVD's I ordered went 'missing', and currently almost every letter I receive has a small tear or folded back flap which looks like an attempt to identify its contents. If this is symbolic of where this company is heading then bring on the competition, I hope the strikes cripple them beyond repair.
In the past I was almost blacklisted from several e-tailers as most of the DVD's I ordered went 'missing', and currently almost every letter I receive has a small tear or folded back flap which looks like an attempt to identify its contents. If this is symbolic of where this company is heading then bring on the competition, I hope the strikes cripple them beyond repair.
12 October 2007, 11:17 PM
#33
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The reason RM is trying to impose these changes is to survive. If they cave in and give the unions everything they want then RM wont be financially viable. Two things can happen. The first is that RM collapses and all the strikers get no final salary pension and have to find a job where they can justify their existence. The second is that RM is shored up by the taxpayer. That means I will have less money in my pocket to pay for my pension so that I can look after myself.
To be totally honest, I can't see much diference between the strikers and that wife swap couple who sponged 38k a year off the taxpayer as it wasn't worth their while working
12 October 2007, 11:26 PM
#34
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At Christmas I looked out to see my postie as a young, tracksuited ethnic struggling to push letters through doors with one hand as he had a sandwich in the other, followed by his pot-bellied, hoop-earinged, cap-wearing 'lady friend'. That day I got the mail for all 6 of the houses on my row
In the past I was almost blacklisted from several e-tailers as most of the DVD's I ordered went 'missing', and currently almost every letter I receive has a small tear or folded back flap which looks like an attempt to identify its contents. If this is symbolic of where this company is heading then bring on the competition, I hope the strikes cripple them beyond repair.
In the past I was almost blacklisted from several e-tailers as most of the DVD's I ordered went 'missing', and currently almost every letter I receive has a small tear or folded back flap which looks like an attempt to identify its contents. If this is symbolic of where this company is heading then bring on the competition, I hope the strikes cripple them beyond repair.
Same here with missing mail. I always seem to get loads of mail for a rather choice individual who lives down the road, we share a very similar address. I always take over this mail but find it slightly strange that I lose a fair bit of mail (DVD's and expensive items) but they never seem to get any of my missing mail. I have asked. I've hassled the PO about this on many occasions but it's still happening, to the extent that I get anything valuable sent to the GF's parents in the country.
12 October 2007, 11:34 PM
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At the end of the day, they (posties), are paid to do a job, which they haven't been whilst on strike.
FFS, on Tuesday I had a delivery for someone, came screeching up in his car as I was about to get back in me van, saying it would be a pain in the **** getting to pick his parcel up if he'd missed me.
No it wouldn't, since he was a bloody striking postie.
Now what is a pain, the local sorting office is only open until 12, 10.30 on a Saturday. Yeah, like thats helpful.
No sympathy. Do the job your paid for, don't persecute the people that pay your wages.
FFS, on Tuesday I had a delivery for someone, came screeching up in his car as I was about to get back in me van, saying it would be a pain in the **** getting to pick his parcel up if he'd missed me.
No it wouldn't, since he was a bloody striking postie.
Now what is a pain, the local sorting office is only open until 12, 10.30 on a Saturday. Yeah, like thats helpful. No sympathy. Do the job your paid for, don't persecute the people that pay your wages.
12 October 2007, 11:37 PM
#36
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Like i said, i'm interested to hear your views on the strike but all i get is a sob story of a few changes that are being made ( probably to keep the business afloat ) that none of you like so you sulk like children and impact on every other innocent person in the country that has paid for a service.
Do i feel sorry for you? No, don't like it get another job. If someone was trying to screw me as bad as you make it out to be i know what i would do.
I suppose it's because i've been self employed all my life is that i can't see where you are coming from. I've earnt my money and had the same opertunity as 90% of the population. If i don't work, i don't get paid. If i go on holiday, i don't get paid. Have i got a pension, yes a private one
12 October 2007, 11:59 PM
#38
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P.o is as useless as the ******* working for it..........fecking ussless! like corradoboy said above you end up with bent, half opened letters. Or nothing when you should have.
13 October 2007, 01:06 AM
#40
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Not fully up to speed with all the problems, but here's my understanding and opinion.
Pay rise - Fair's fair, at least in line with inflation, otherwise you effectively get a pay cut.
Working hours - At the mo' I'm led to believe that once they complete their allotted tasks for any given day they go home, and management want them to fulfill their contracted hours with 'other duties'. This is a fair request, as long as the 'other duties' fall within a reasonable expectation. A postie whom has completed his round three hours early could reasonably be expected to do a few hours in the sorting room. It would however be unreasonable to ask him to clean the toilets, wash the managers car or paint the ceiling.
Working hours Pt.2 - IMHO it is completely unacceptable to expect someone to arrive at work to be told to come back later. If the company cannot manage its workflow and logistics then address the problem with those whose job it is to do so. It is perfectly fair for an individual to have stable and predictable working hours which do not under normal circumstances infringe on their personal time. Any extra hours required should be at the discretion of the individual with reasonable notice given. If hourly paid then these should be classed and paid as overtime. If salaried then the individuals contract should state what is a reasonable amount which can be expected by the employer, and persistent refusal to accommodate a reasonable amount should be addressed within either the appraisal or the disciplinary procedures.
Pension - Don't know enough to comment, but all pensions are crap.
Pay rise - Fair's fair, at least in line with inflation, otherwise you effectively get a pay cut.
Working hours - At the mo' I'm led to believe that once they complete their allotted tasks for any given day they go home, and management want them to fulfill their contracted hours with 'other duties'. This is a fair request, as long as the 'other duties' fall within a reasonable expectation. A postie whom has completed his round three hours early could reasonably be expected to do a few hours in the sorting room. It would however be unreasonable to ask him to clean the toilets, wash the managers car or paint the ceiling.
Working hours Pt.2 - IMHO it is completely unacceptable to expect someone to arrive at work to be told to come back later. If the company cannot manage its workflow and logistics then address the problem with those whose job it is to do so. It is perfectly fair for an individual to have stable and predictable working hours which do not under normal circumstances infringe on their personal time. Any extra hours required should be at the discretion of the individual with reasonable notice given. If hourly paid then these should be classed and paid as overtime. If salaried then the individuals contract should state what is a reasonable amount which can be expected by the employer, and persistent refusal to accommodate a reasonable amount should be addressed within either the appraisal or the disciplinary procedures.
Pension - Don't know enough to comment, but all pensions are crap.
13 October 2007, 10:00 AM
#41
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Asked our postie how come he was working during the strike. He said him and his 8 colleagues at the small local post office all decided to work through and continue to do their jobs. Told him good on him. They aren't all lazy striking wasters.
13 October 2007, 02:38 PM
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Can I just say something about a couple of the things mentioned in this thread?
First is the comment about DHL, TNT, Deutsche Post taking over. They may well take over parts of the operation, but I don't think they will ever take over the whole thing. There's just no money in taking a letter from deepest Cornwall to God knows where in Scotland which RM have to, for 32p. Just as a comparison, a first class stamp in Spain is 45p, France it's 78p, Holland it's 79p, 95p in Germany and £1.12 in Italy. That's more like what you'll be looking at if competition is opened up on a level playing field. It is far from a level playing field at the moment. It's heavily weighted against Royal Mail. The competition cherry pick the business they want based on its profitability. So they take the bulk business mail. The mail is handled by the competition for parts of its journey from sender to recipient, but ultimately RM deliver it at the end. They have to deliver it, and they have to do it for a set price. That's not competition. If the postmen/women really wanted to screw things they could just refuse to deliver all the competitor's mail. That would probably leave them with half the mail to deliver that they currently do.
The other comment was regarding people not working their hours. There's a lot that has not been said about this. Those people that do finish 2 hours before their designated finish time, do so due to many reasons. I'll try to explain some here.
They come in early. It's not uncommon for postmen/women to be in at 4am for a 5am start to get a jump start on their sorting. These people are often standing at their bench in a trance-like state just putting letters in the frame like a machine, whilst listening to a walkman to avoid chatting to anyone.
They use their own cars. They do this to avoid having to wait for a lift out to their round with the van drivers. More time saved. They will also use the car to move around the delivery which saves time against the bike user. Also, as the bags are stored in the car and close to hand, they don't have to go back and forth to a designated bag drop point. More time saved. There are other small ways in which the use of your own car saves time, but I won't go into too much detail here. They also use the car to get back to the delivery office. Sometimes the ride back can be 20 minutes or so. In a car, this is a lot less.
How many postmen do you see wearing trainers, or wearing shorts and shirts in the middle of winter? Why do you think they do this? It's because they are running. It is not a job requirement to run like a crazy man to get the job done, and no one would expect it. It's not reasonable. But if you want to get done and home then it is your choice to run. Again, more time saved.
Finally, the people that use their own cars often have overweight bags. They do this because they have no liability to anyone else for overweight bags (the maximum bag weight is 16kgs. You have to weigh all bags before going out and rearrange things if a bag is over this weight. If a driver who takes the bags out hurts his back and a bag you've loaded is found to be overweight there can be hell to pay). This saves more time as you're not splitting bags up in inconvenient places that will cost you time when you're out on the round.
What does all this mean in relation to what's being talked about here? It means there won't be people coming back early from rounds to do all this extra work. Why? Because they will just do the job as they're supposed to, as there's nothing in it for them to rush. That's human nature. This isn't a career job where your extra effort is going to be rewarded. This isn't self employment where your effort is directly proportional to the pay-off. The only benefit to working harder than you have to is to finish early. Take that away and people will just work in the proper manner as set out by the post office. You can't call that lazy.
They will arrive at work on time, sort at a reasonable pace, load up bags in accordance with the weight limits (load bag, weigh bag, rearrange bag if necessary), wait for a van driver to take them out, cycle around the delivery ensuring the bike is locked at all times, ferry bags to and from drop off points, walk around the delivery in their Royal Mail boots, then cycle back to the office when done. I don't think there will be much time left for all this extra work that people think they should be doing back at the sorting office.
Sorry for this turning into an essay, but at least it details an argument against the standard throw away comments like "they finish 2 hours early at the post office and go home" or "just wait till DHL/TNT etc take over".
First is the comment about DHL, TNT, Deutsche Post taking over. They may well take over parts of the operation, but I don't think they will ever take over the whole thing. There's just no money in taking a letter from deepest Cornwall to God knows where in Scotland which RM have to, for 32p. Just as a comparison, a first class stamp in Spain is 45p, France it's 78p, Holland it's 79p, 95p in Germany and £1.12 in Italy. That's more like what you'll be looking at if competition is opened up on a level playing field. It is far from a level playing field at the moment. It's heavily weighted against Royal Mail. The competition cherry pick the business they want based on its profitability. So they take the bulk business mail. The mail is handled by the competition for parts of its journey from sender to recipient, but ultimately RM deliver it at the end. They have to deliver it, and they have to do it for a set price. That's not competition. If the postmen/women really wanted to screw things they could just refuse to deliver all the competitor's mail. That would probably leave them with half the mail to deliver that they currently do.
The other comment was regarding people not working their hours. There's a lot that has not been said about this. Those people that do finish 2 hours before their designated finish time, do so due to many reasons. I'll try to explain some here.
They come in early. It's not uncommon for postmen/women to be in at 4am for a 5am start to get a jump start on their sorting. These people are often standing at their bench in a trance-like state just putting letters in the frame like a machine, whilst listening to a walkman to avoid chatting to anyone.
They use their own cars. They do this to avoid having to wait for a lift out to their round with the van drivers. More time saved. They will also use the car to move around the delivery which saves time against the bike user. Also, as the bags are stored in the car and close to hand, they don't have to go back and forth to a designated bag drop point. More time saved. There are other small ways in which the use of your own car saves time, but I won't go into too much detail here. They also use the car to get back to the delivery office. Sometimes the ride back can be 20 minutes or so. In a car, this is a lot less.
How many postmen do you see wearing trainers, or wearing shorts and shirts in the middle of winter? Why do you think they do this? It's because they are running. It is not a job requirement to run like a crazy man to get the job done, and no one would expect it. It's not reasonable. But if you want to get done and home then it is your choice to run. Again, more time saved.
Finally, the people that use their own cars often have overweight bags. They do this because they have no liability to anyone else for overweight bags (the maximum bag weight is 16kgs. You have to weigh all bags before going out and rearrange things if a bag is over this weight. If a driver who takes the bags out hurts his back and a bag you've loaded is found to be overweight there can be hell to pay). This saves more time as you're not splitting bags up in inconvenient places that will cost you time when you're out on the round.
What does all this mean in relation to what's being talked about here? It means there won't be people coming back early from rounds to do all this extra work. Why? Because they will just do the job as they're supposed to, as there's nothing in it for them to rush. That's human nature. This isn't a career job where your extra effort is going to be rewarded. This isn't self employment where your effort is directly proportional to the pay-off. The only benefit to working harder than you have to is to finish early. Take that away and people will just work in the proper manner as set out by the post office. You can't call that lazy.
They will arrive at work on time, sort at a reasonable pace, load up bags in accordance with the weight limits (load bag, weigh bag, rearrange bag if necessary), wait for a van driver to take them out, cycle around the delivery ensuring the bike is locked at all times, ferry bags to and from drop off points, walk around the delivery in their Royal Mail boots, then cycle back to the office when done. I don't think there will be much time left for all this extra work that people think they should be doing back at the sorting office.
Sorry for this turning into an essay, but at least it details an argument against the standard throw away comments like "they finish 2 hours early at the post office and go home" or "just wait till DHL/TNT etc take over".
Last edited by Butkus; 13 October 2007 at 02:43 PM. Reason: .
13 October 2007, 02:56 PM
#43
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Butkus, I can fully appreciate your position. I choose to rush at my weekend job and usually end up spending the whole of Sunday night watching Top Gear, surfing the web, sleeping through DVD's, doing my accounts for my self-employed midweek job etc etc. The thing is, I am still at work and available for any task which requires my attention, not at home, feet up, chillin' with a brew. If I'm not there, I don't get paid. If I'm there and there's no more work left to do, I get paid for relaxing but am available if required. Human nature will of course make people just slow to an acceptable pace if there is no benefit in it for them.
I'm with you on the postage cost, and the unfair competition. The PO executives need to thrash that one out with the government, but I think it would be a very expensive business to start up from scratch and maybe the leaching off the PO is an incentive to get the competition started and rolling before leaving them on their own
I'm with you on the postage cost, and the unfair competition. The PO executives need to thrash that one out with the government, but I think it would be a very expensive business to start up from scratch and maybe the leaching off the PO is an incentive to get the competition started and rolling before leaving them on their own
13 October 2007, 03:19 PM
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dont know what they are worried about most of the posties i know have cash in hand jobs in the afternoons
how many companies have you worked for who let you get second jobs and go home at 1 or 2 in the afternoon
Adrian
how many companies have you worked for who let you get second jobs and go home at 1 or 2 in the afternoon
Adrian
13 October 2007, 03:23 PM
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What time should they finish then? 5pm? On that basis, office workers who start at 9am should finish at 9pm. Remember that postmen start at 5am. If they choose to have a second job, and work all the hours there are, is that not their choice? They only finish early because they got up in the middle of the night.
13 October 2007, 03:40 PM
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What time should they finish then? 5pm? On that basis, office workers who start at 9am should finish at 9pm. Remember that postmen start at 5am. If they choose to have a second job, and work all the hours there are, is that not their choice? They only finish early because they got up in the middle of the night.
My partners company do not allow her to work for other companys as do most companies now
Adrian
13 October 2007, 09:14 PM
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What time should they finish then? 5pm? On that basis, office workers who start at 9am should finish at 9pm. Remember that postmen start at 5am. If they choose to have a second job, and work all the hours there are, is that not their choice? They only finish early because they got up in the middle of the night.
Now where's me McRae sticker
13 October 2007, 09:55 PM
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13 October 2007, 10:35 PM
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I am still waiting for my new iPod earbuds... over 10 days now. And I'm not blaming the seller... poxy Royal Mail.
If you are contracted to X... do X.... if you do not like X... **** off... it's all a bit f*cking simple
If you are contracted to X... do X.... if you do not like X... **** off... it's all a bit f*cking simple
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