P1Fanatic

Fair cop on the M3 leadtime - read the line below which said 16 weeks but twas for a 330 Ci Sports (same damn car near enough but a hell of a lot cheaper).

matt d

For anyone interested in getting one, I had mine for sale at £22,500 (brake upgrade, 20k mileage) in November and didn't get much serious interest. Dealer bids were 20k (which I ended up selling for). So you should be able to get private sale P1s by paying only 21-22k, because the owners are unlikely to get higher offers. Just be patient, call round all the ones offered in Top Marques and wait a month or so, and you'll probably find someone like me who wants to sell reasonably quickly for a reasonable price. Ignore the dreamer BS prices in Top Marques - none are going at those levels (25k-ish) even at dealers.

Chins

P1 Fanatic

The lead time on an M3 is a good year. Let me know if you find an M3 at £34k with half price accesories I'm interested- with a short lead time as well.

You'll also have experience of the reaction of people driving the old and new shape Scooby ?. I certainly found as many thumbs up and complements for my UK300 as I did the P1. Maybe if I'd been in a std looking MY01, I might not have. The UK STI also looks pretty much like the car that just won the WRC. Something that really helps image. Witness all the guys who bought an EVO as it was winning the WRC.

Jonathan

wilf

Chins,

I'd chop the M3 sooner rather than later if I were you as historically their long term residuals are appalling. Witness dealer near me selling 99 V M3 evo e36 for under 16k with 30k miles on it. Someone bought new wisely there seeing as it listed at 42K.

Once the poor sops who have jumped on the bandwagon and ordered one to make a quick buck pull their deposits cos the next big thing is out it will all turn very ugly for M3 owners with 40k of potential depreciation locked up in their motors.

This will all happen much sooner than you think. BMW recycle model changes much quicker than they used to. Example X5 - lasted about 6 months before big depreciation set in.

Fact is in this day and age there isnt a real depreciation beater out there even Porsches - Boxtsters still make big money from dealers but try to sell one on and its a different story.

No one is in the car owning game to make money its just how big a loss you are prepared to take. I paid well below list for my nearly new P1 back in November and am happy just to enjoy it come what may.

Brendan Hughes

And all those people who sold their MY99s for an Evo VI?


zzzzzzz.......

GranTurismo

I think the bottom line is that P1's are going through a price drop and the new STi is part of it.

Baically anyone who doesnt own a P1 is happy becuse they can now afford one, and onyone who does own one is feeling a little bit glum. At the end of the day if you buy a car from new then you own it at the time when it looses the most money. There have been a few exceptions, but not that many.

Just a thought but the "downturn in the economy" could be part of it as well, the P1 is a "Toy" (a practical one) but at the end of the day if you are on notice of redunency you aint going to buy one of these coz they are not cheap to run.

scoobynutta555

Granturismo
I think the P1 is the cheapest "supercar" to ever be built. Yes, it is officially classed as a supercar. In fact, the p1 i have is cheaper to run then the old my93 wrx and my99 stitypeR to run.

On the subject of depreciation i dont plan to sell my car at all, so im not in the least bit concerned in it losing value.In fact i lost over 9k on my old wrx. Show me a pratical car that can keep up with a p1 and will never lose any money, you wont. And i cant see residuals staying high as the new m3 gets older or is replaced by a facelift model. The poseurs who drive them now will soon get rid when bmw change something.

And i feel sorry for new shape owners who have purchased either a wrx or a uk300.I bet the % depreciation is even higher than that of the P1. Not only have they got a car that is generally made a mockery of, but if the rumours are true, then a complete redesign is in the offing. They will be forgotten models im sure.

Whilst im here, during my £98 7,500 mile service (yes, p1s are soooo expensive to run ) i paid £200 for the prodrive leather jacket thats up for £350, i suppose similar % discounts are being made available to potential new shape owners

PAUL GEE

Mickle,
Wake up baby!
Future classic? All cars are like putting money down the grid. Yes the P1 is a tremendous drivers car but the STi prodrive makes it down the road just as well, if not better.
No matter how much you love a car, at some point its gotta go!

Mickle

Only way my car's going is past yours!

JoeyDeacon

Again it depends if you are buying or selling!

If you are selling then the dealer will say "Not a lot of call for these now the STi7 is out". If you are buying then obviously the dealer will tell you how much better the P1 is and how in demand they are.

I personally don't want either but if I was your average punter I would be much happier spending £26K on a brand new car with 3 year waranty and the new shape (no matter how much you dislike it you have to admit it makes the old shape look dated) than 24K on a 1 year old P1.

Whatever Impreza you own the bottom has fallen out of the market and you can expect massive losses when you come to sell.

Chins

Thanks to everyone for the advice on M3 residuals. As a posseur as Scoobynutta555 puts it, I'm well aware of the market. However for at least the next year depreciation in the first year will be approx 10%. And yes some people have buybacks figures guaranteeing that. After that I'm sure it will slowly change. However unlike the E36 M3 the new one has a great write up and is a great car. Dealers are still maintaining a 12 month waiting list with ease.

Joey

You are 100% in your assesment of how a dealer is when you look to buy or sell.


As for me I'm deliberating on joining the rice brigade again. Its just that damn depreciation that scares the crap out of me

Jonathan

medders

sammyh, why does the power of an sti7 feel better than a P!? (and thats a genuine question not a mock or start of a war)

Also did you drive an import or uk car?
cheers

medders

[Edited by medders - 1/10/2002 2:08:08 PM]

P1Fanatic

GranTurismo,

Im in the same boat as you mate. Im looking to spend around £22k but that doesnt get you that much in P1 terms. Hence Im waiting a bit longer to buy a better one - on the subaru webbie they have several used cars for around £25k with 10k on the clock and mid-2001 registrations. Hopefully the intro of the Sti7 will drop them a bit but Im not counting my chickens as they are the old shape (which in some eyes, including mine, is more desirable) and limited edition. I was hoping that once I get the money together I can expect a reasonable discount once I make an offer - any ideas what I could expect/ask for on cash and p/ex on a £25k P1?

P.S. I currently drive a brick AKA as a Nissan Primera - its only my second car so Im not up on the in's and out's of buying used cars. Would a subaru dealership be likely to take my primera in p/ex for a P1?

Cheers,

Simon.

[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/10/2002 2:18:19 PM]

P1Fanatic

One point - if your buying a car then its gonna depriciate no matter what it is bar the odd exception that has picked up a waiting list (read m3, s3 etc). With a new impreza shape in 2003 the sti will follow the depreciation trend - of that I am sure. Oh and wilst were on the subjest of M3's - if they are so short in supply in the Uk how come u can get a quote from any importer for under £34k delivered, 1/2 price accessories and a 2 year warranty????

To me there is no choice - the P1 is a sexy and elegant car whilst the Sti is a fugly bug-eyed WRX with a few upgrades (read a downgrade in wheels on the UK300, loads of pink sti badges, no rear wiper, oh and the all important aluminum pedals) slapped on it in a bid to try and beat the Evo VII. The people I feel sorry for are the standard WRX owners who could have a Sti 7 for a few grand more or even worse the UK300 owners.

You all seem locked into comparing the Sti7 with the P1 yet the Prodrive version of the Sti7 is £27,495 list. For £24k you can get a P1 with the alcon/prodrive brake upgrades and around 15k on the clock. I know which Id rather have.

The P1 turns heads cos people look and say "wow", it has street presence. Its more towards the 22b and type r being a coupe. The Sti will turn heads cos people think U-G-L-Y!! I cant believe people on here would buy a car they dont look like of (mentioning no names *cough* carl *cough*). Subaru obviously agree that the WRX's looks havent won it many friends as they already have a total body rework pencilled in.

The argument over Sti imports is a non starter - the P1 is a uk only, 1000 car ltd edition.

At the end of the day I think we will all have to agree to disagree. If well all liked the same cars every **** would be driving a fiesta or 206 - then Id have to kill myself

[Edited by P1Fanatic - 1/10/2002 11:31:25 PM]

Mickle

2 weeks ago I bought a new P1. I had the choice between the FUGLY and this and it took all of about 1 second to know that I'd never been seen dead in a FUGLY no matter what it's got under it's bonnet.

What the cars worth is what you're willing to pay for it and I'm 100% happy with the price I paid for mine.

And as for re-sale values, I don't plan on ever selling my future classic!

[Edited by Mickle - 1/11/2002 2:28:24 PM]