Originally Posted by Tart Man

Quite alot. Weight is the biggest problem on modern production cars. Manufacturers spend billions making more powerful and resposnsive engines. But then put them in increasingly heavier chassis, reducing engine response, braking, and severly hampering a car's handling and comfort- epecially on the UK's roads. One really does notice when you start chucking many modern cars about on some bumpy backroads where the suspension starts struggling to control the body weight and imperfections in the road surface.

Lets not forget emissons and fuel consumption (my green bit for the debate ).

BMW by no means are the only exception, but when they produce a compact coupe, one instantly thinks this maybe something a bit more feather weight to a lardy 3 series (Which I don't get on with - nervous, jiggly and wallowy at the same time - without the run flats either).

I feel there is only so much a manufacturer can do to a car's chassis and suspension to counter-act the laws of physics, and even then its a compromise between ride quality, handling and comfort. Generally ending up with something that is either too extreme in one area (too stiff, too soft etc) or something that doesn't really excel in any area comfort/handling wise (cough 3-series M-sport ).


Myself being a person who wants a semi-practical smallish RWD car, the car's weight is an important factor for me. The weight of the 135ci kind of makes me wonder what is the point of even bothering making it (from a driving point of view) when its as compromised as a 335 They may as well saved the development money and just put the 3.0 turbo unit into a Z4 coupe (which i hope they will anyway ).

Originally Posted by Devildog

ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be

Originally Posted by Devildog

Weight is only one consideration however. New C class and RS4 excepted, throughout the range every BMW is a better "drive" than its comparable Audi and Merc.

And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)

But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.


ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be

Originally Posted by Devildog

Weight is only one consideration however. New C class and RS4 excepted, throughout the range every BMW is a better "drive" than its comparable Audi and Merc.

And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)

But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.


ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be

Originally Posted by Tart Man

The problem is people are accepting it, or people are telling others to accept it (this thread perhaps? ).

And its going to continue until enough people start shouting at manufacturers to stop making lardy cars.

Originally Posted by Flatcapdriver

Unlikely given that for most people driving is a chore and therefore they don't put the effort in as they would if they were interested in the subject. Problem is, a lot of the weight is foisted on manufacturers by legislation.

Take safety as an example: ABS, nannytronics, crash cells, air bags, deformable structures, pedestrian impact, adaptive cruise control - possibly 120kg that could be taken out of a car's weight there.

Comfort factors: PDC, cruise control (normal type), electric seats, heated seats, scene lighting, complex sound systems, satnav, sun blinds, DVD systems, double glazing, sound insulation. Possibly an additional 130kg to be removed.

Environmental legislation: emissions (catalytic convertors), complex electronic controls, variable timing, regenerative braking systems, BMW stop start system (this will be followed by others to get round CO2 emissions). Another 50kg?

Take that lot out and its around 300kg from some modern vehicles and whilst the 135i (as an example) doesn't have all that kit on it, you can see why cars are getting so heavy. How much of that would have been demanded by the public? Hard to say but an awful lot of it is a result of European and American legislation handed down by the law makers as opposed to the motoring public.

Originally Posted by Tart Man

That doesn't account for the marginal weight difference between the 335 and 135. As both cars are made to the same criteria. As I said before, its a pointless car unless one can't park, or wants to skimp a few quid.

Originally Posted by Tart Man

That doesn't account for the marginal weight difference between the 335 and 135. As both cars are made to the same criteria. As I said before, its a pointless car unless one can't park, or wants to skimp a few quid.