BMW 135i coupe review
#31
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The Defender just won overall 4x4 of the year award and Extreme 4x4 of the year award in the best known 4x4 mag.
The Range Rover didn't even get a look in - they are luxury 4x4s and you are simply regurgitating something you heard at the pub (if you ever go to a pub) AND the RR weighs a HUGE amount more than a Defender, further crapping on your "argument."
YOU need to grow up - you remind me of a snivelling kid in class who keeps trying to be clever but fails every time.
Of course, if I was you, I'd look up every weight of every BMW and compare them in detail to all the other marques, then try and be clever.
But I can't be bothered. So I'll leave you to criticise everything I buy.
Hey, maybe you could have a go at my choice of custom made surfboards and "advise" me on what I should have got? You seem to think you know everything after all. ZzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzz
Back to the 135i - Heavy but I'm sure it's extremely nice to drive and own.
The Range Rover didn't even get a look in - they are luxury 4x4s and you are simply regurgitating something you heard at the pub (if you ever go to a pub) AND the RR weighs a HUGE amount more than a Defender, further crapping on your "argument."
YOU need to grow up - you remind me of a snivelling kid in class who keeps trying to be clever but fails every time.
Of course, if I was you, I'd look up every weight of every BMW and compare them in detail to all the other marques, then try and be clever.
But I can't be bothered. So I'll leave you to criticise everything I buy.
Hey, maybe you could have a go at my choice of custom made surfboards and "advise" me on what I should have got? You seem to think you know everything after all. ZzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzz
Back to the 135i - Heavy but I'm sure it's extremely nice to drive and own.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 30 October 2007 at 11:11 AM.
#32
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Quite alot. Weight is the biggest problem on modern production cars. Manufacturers spend billions making more powerful and resposnsive engines. But then put them in increasingly heavier chassis, reducing engine response, braking, and severly hampering a car's handling and comfort- epecially on the UK's roads. One really does notice when you start chucking many modern cars about on some bumpy backroads where the suspension starts struggling to control the body weight and imperfections in the road surface.
Lets not forget emissons and fuel consumption (my green bit for the debate ).
BMW by no means are the only exception, but when they produce a compact coupe, one instantly thinks this maybe something a bit more feather weight to a lardy 3 series (Which I don't get on with - nervous, jiggly and wallowy at the same time - without the run flats either).
I feel there is only so much a manufacturer can do to a car's chassis and suspension to counter-act the laws of physics, and even then its a compromise between ride quality, handling and comfort. Generally ending up with something that is either too extreme in one area (too stiff, too soft etc) or something that doesn't really excel in any area comfort/handling wise (cough 3-series M-sport ).
Myself being a person who wants a semi-practical smallish RWD car, the car's weight is an important factor for me. The weight of the 135ci kind of makes me wonder what is the point of even bothering making it (from a driving point of view) when its as compromised as a 335 They may as well saved the development money and just put the 3.0 turbo unit into a Z4 coupe (which i hope they will anyway ).
Lets not forget emissons and fuel consumption (my green bit for the debate ).
BMW by no means are the only exception, but when they produce a compact coupe, one instantly thinks this maybe something a bit more feather weight to a lardy 3 series (Which I don't get on with - nervous, jiggly and wallowy at the same time - without the run flats either).
I feel there is only so much a manufacturer can do to a car's chassis and suspension to counter-act the laws of physics, and even then its a compromise between ride quality, handling and comfort. Generally ending up with something that is either too extreme in one area (too stiff, too soft etc) or something that doesn't really excel in any area comfort/handling wise (cough 3-series M-sport ).
Myself being a person who wants a semi-practical smallish RWD car, the car's weight is an important factor for me. The weight of the 135ci kind of makes me wonder what is the point of even bothering making it (from a driving point of view) when its as compromised as a 335 They may as well saved the development money and just put the 3.0 turbo unit into a Z4 coupe (which i hope they will anyway ).
And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)
But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.
ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be
Last edited by Devildog; 30 October 2007 at 11:16 AM.
#33
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Some people really get on my nerves.
Flatcap is one of them.
But maybe he'll give up soon?
Probably not.
The Best 4x4 x Far
Best of British - Telegraph
Last edited by Matteeboy; 30 October 2007 at 11:20 AM.
#34
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As I said, learn to grow up a little. Its free advice and well intended but for someone who professes not to be interested in my opinions you don't half spend a lot of time responding.
Keep it up. Its amusing to watch you blow a fuse every time.
Keep it up. Its amusing to watch you blow a fuse every time.
#35
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Weight is only one consideration however. New C class and RS4 excepted, throughout the range every BMW is a better "drive" than its comparable Audi and Merc.
And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)
But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.
ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be
And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)
But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.
ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be
The problem is as much legislative as anything else. We were hitching up a RRS the other day and I noticed he'd removed the spare wheel and whilst he was quite happy to within the environs of woods we were playing in, he did comment that the spare wheel was part of its crash protection according to Land Rover and shouldn't be removed permanently. Seems daft to me that adding weight in the form of spare wheel/tyre for crash protection is encouraged when replacing it with RFTs (pioneered by BMW but hey, they're not interested in weight saving are they ) would be the way forward.
#36
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Weight is only one consideration however. New C class and RS4 excepted, throughout the range every BMW is a better "drive" than its comparable Audi and Merc.
And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)
But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.
ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be
And as has been stated, at length, but many seem to forget, BMW's quoted weights are with occupant (s?) and fluids, Audi/Merc are not (or certainly haven't been previously)
But, yes, no one is disputing the fact that modern cars are too heavy, and that smaller ones comparatively more so. Full marks to Mazda for making the new "2" lighter than the old one.
ps - Matt, for a surfer living in Cornwall you aren't half as "chilled" as you should be
Its not about the competetion; In my eyes there is very little in this sector (compact RWD, 4ish seats and a boot). As everything os overweight or doesn't compare...I mean, most VAGS be it a TT ir a Golf isn't exactly 135coupe territory. Is it? And VAGs are as involving as a blancmange (although BMW are catching up, fast ).
This one car potentially fills an interesting niche, but the point being, the advantages of a smaller car (barring parking space) usually is associated with the car being faster, quicker to respond, more nimble, better on fuel than the larger model made by teh same company fitted with the same engine, most of these attributes are associated with the vehicles weight.
So what one would expect to gain in driving dymanics by having a compact car is lost. The result is a car that is completely pointless from a driving point of view, unless the driver can't park to save their life.
The problem is people are accepting it, or people are telling others to accept it (this thread perhaps? ).
And its going to continue until enough people start shouting at manufacturers to stop making lardy cars.
Most manufactureres quote to EC/EU curb weights which includes fuel, driver, luggage for a standard specification vehicle. God bless Brussels.
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Take safety as an example: ABS, nannytronics, crash cells, air bags, deformable structures, pedestrian impact, adaptive cruise control - possibly 120kg that could be taken out of a car's weight there.
Comfort factors: PDC, cruise control (normal type), electric seats, heated seats, scene lighting, complex sound systems, satnav, sun blinds, DVD systems, double glazing, sound insulation. Possibly an additional 130kg to be removed.
Environmental legislation: emissions (catalytic convertors), complex electronic controls, variable timing, regenerative braking systems, BMW stop start system (this will be followed by others to get round CO2 emissions). Another 50kg?
Take that lot out and its around 300kg from some modern vehicles and whilst the 135i (as an example) doesn't have all that kit on it, you can see why cars are getting so heavy. How much of that would have been demanded by the public? Hard to say but an awful lot of it is a result of European and American legislation handed down by the law makers as opposed to the motoring public.
#38
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I'd agree with that.
I'd also venture that the majority of the car buying public doesn't buy a more compact car hoping for improved dynamics due to lighter weight, but rather for a whole host of other reasons, many of which are quite subjective.
It doesn't help, mind you, when most of the motoring press seem to consider that small cars having "big car feel" is a good thing.
I'd also venture that the majority of the car buying public doesn't buy a more compact car hoping for improved dynamics due to lighter weight, but rather for a whole host of other reasons, many of which are quite subjective.
It doesn't help, mind you, when most of the motoring press seem to consider that small cars having "big car feel" is a good thing.
#40
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Unlikely given that for most people driving is a chore and therefore they don't put the effort in as they would if they were interested in the subject. Problem is, a lot of the weight is foisted on manufacturers by legislation.
Take safety as an example: ABS, nannytronics, crash cells, air bags, deformable structures, pedestrian impact, adaptive cruise control - possibly 120kg that could be taken out of a car's weight there.
Comfort factors: PDC, cruise control (normal type), electric seats, heated seats, scene lighting, complex sound systems, satnav, sun blinds, DVD systems, double glazing, sound insulation. Possibly an additional 130kg to be removed.
Environmental legislation: emissions (catalytic convertors), complex electronic controls, variable timing, regenerative braking systems, BMW stop start system (this will be followed by others to get round CO2 emissions). Another 50kg?
Take that lot out and its around 300kg from some modern vehicles and whilst the 135i (as an example) doesn't have all that kit on it, you can see why cars are getting so heavy. How much of that would have been demanded by the public? Hard to say but an awful lot of it is a result of European and American legislation handed down by the law makers as opposed to the motoring public.
Take safety as an example: ABS, nannytronics, crash cells, air bags, deformable structures, pedestrian impact, adaptive cruise control - possibly 120kg that could be taken out of a car's weight there.
Comfort factors: PDC, cruise control (normal type), electric seats, heated seats, scene lighting, complex sound systems, satnav, sun blinds, DVD systems, double glazing, sound insulation. Possibly an additional 130kg to be removed.
Environmental legislation: emissions (catalytic convertors), complex electronic controls, variable timing, regenerative braking systems, BMW stop start system (this will be followed by others to get round CO2 emissions). Another 50kg?
Take that lot out and its around 300kg from some modern vehicles and whilst the 135i (as an example) doesn't have all that kit on it, you can see why cars are getting so heavy. How much of that would have been demanded by the public? Hard to say but an awful lot of it is a result of European and American legislation handed down by the law makers as opposed to the motoring public.
#41
I think the car looks pretty good, the engines a cracker and size wise it would be great for someone like my wife who wants to down size from her Octavia VRS. So on first glance I could be tempted...however.....
The price is pretty expensive. Whilst the depreciation is less than some cars (though thats debatable when you look at the actual price paid with the extras) I'm still not conviced it's worth the asking price.
Will be one to drive before I make any judgements though
The price is pretty expensive. Whilst the depreciation is less than some cars (though thats debatable when you look at the actual price paid with the extras) I'm still not conviced it's worth the asking price.
Will be one to drive before I make any judgements though
#43
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I wasn't confining my comments to the 135i but yes, you're correct about the relative weights between the two. However, I wouldn't say its pointless given that its quicker than the 335i and by all accounts is supposed to be the thinking man's M3 if the reports I've read are anything to go by.
#44
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135i M sport has a base price £5k less than a 335i m coupe which also blows your "pointless" comments out the window somewhat.
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£5K extra isn't much when your already spending £30K on a new car. Just like the 0.3 or whatever seconds faster it is to 100kph.
If it were £25K new (making it £10k cheaper), then I wouldn't be here. Likewise if it were several seconds quicker, or 200kg lighter.
But then I suppose it would tread in the z4 3.0 coupe's territory, which is what I'll have to settle on, but I really would like a pair of rear seats and the turbo engine.
If it were £25K new (making it £10k cheaper), then I wouldn't be here. Likewise if it were several seconds quicker, or 200kg lighter.
But then I suppose it would tread in the z4 3.0 coupe's territory, which is what I'll have to settle on, but I really would like a pair of rear seats and the turbo engine.
Last edited by Tart Man; 30 October 2007 at 07:08 PM.
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