Jonno_johnson

Why do people keep trying to make excuses for black people from poor areas, the black youth are only intrested in looking cool, and been in gang, look at all the recent shootings its all black gang related.

The Snug Rhino

dohh..edited and lost it!

Lum

Maybe not the best choice of phrase given the post immediately above yours. I LOL'd though.

dpb

Cut up blatant man !

in Tottenham anyway

Leslie

No reply to my previous post then.

I reiterate that publishing a report like that is not in the slightest bit brave or clever and it is certainly of no value whatsoever.

To publicly denounce a group of people whatever their background and describe them of low intelligence is particularly offensive and well beyond the pale. This is a generalisation which is not likely to be accurate for a start and going by the people that I have met during my life is most unfair.

To announce such a report is also inflammatory as in fact we have already seen by some of the posts on this thread.

I need only ask how some would feel if they were blessed with an unfortunate appearance for example and had to put up with people patronising them because they thought you look a bit simple!

There always used to be a code of conduct which required people to at least be tactful and to avoid saying anything to embarrass or to upset anyone else. As I said before it is known as common decency. I realise of course that standards have dropped through the floor, but has that thought for the feelings of others gone completely out of the window.

I do not need the likes of Brendan Hughes calling me politically correct. This has nothing to do with that malarkey!

Les

andythejock01wrx

Don't have time to type much at the mo, but agree with basics of what Les is saying.

AndytJ

The Snug Rhino

What nonsense......does everyone own these rose tinted time machine glasses?

What we "used" to have was Jim Davidson and Alf Garnett, elsewhere there was Apartheid and white minority rule.....back a bit further and no one called black people less intelligent...they just chained them up and sold them!

Girls are more intelligent than boys and the Chinese more intelligent than us...these are fairly well established trends for school children. As a non-Chinese male i have to live with such negativity, that's life and pointing it out isnt mean and nasty.

The Chief

A good point SR

I dont go round huffing and puffing because the findings show that Indians and Chinese are more intelligent than me because i'm a white male

Its a report that someone has had the ***** to publish and these are his findings.

So what do i do?

I read it, get over it and move on.

Life goes on

PeteBrant

If you are going to base these statements on A-Level or GSCE results im going to call you names.

What other basis do you have for these assumptions?

Suresh

The guy has published facts which are fully-supported by the UK Government's statistics and the PC police *still* refuse to believe that not everyone is made equal


That said, I agree with Les that it isn't nice to mock the afflicted though. James Watson could have presented his findings more tactfully than this type of comment "He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

The Snug Rhino

Their performance on Family Fortunes. Call me what you like, I regard name calling as evidence of low intelligence and you appear neither Chinese nor female - so its to be expected.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Family Fortunes?! That's a rather limp yardstick you have there.

PeteBrant

Well see , the thing is, as soon as you start giving school exam results as evidence of intelligence for one particular race or another, you open up all sorts of interpretations.

For example, one way of looking at the graph is that the order of intelligence goes Asian>European>African

Another way would be to say that the graph conslusively proves that those children in inner city areas (i.e. areas which the vast majority of black people live) is poorer in terms of education than the more affluent parts of the country. A graph can be interpreted anyway you like.

Another statistic is, say, the number of Nobel prize for physics per country. If you look at this, it seems that Chinese people stop learning when they are 16, because they have 1 prize, compared to 26 for the UK. In fact, you have to go to Japan with 3 before you get to a country outside of Europe/The US.

Which is , of course, silly.

So, in essence, the argument that the fact that Chinese kids do better at GSCEs means they are more intelligent as a race holds about as much water as a paper bag.

Lum

So do the Indians and Chinese happen to occupy positions of privelege then, are they more affluent than Whites. Last time I checked they seemed just as likely to be shoved into deprived inner city areas as the blacks, and how do you explain the discrepancy between indians vs pakistanis?

The problem is it's very hard to do a study that can only come up with one conclusion, and any conclusions based on one person's observations will be descredited as anecdotal. For example my mum has been a career officer in the same inner city area for over 20 years and will point out if given a chance that the indians and pakistanis work bloody hard compared to the whites. I will not repeat what she has to say about her black customers for fear of getting banned, but I'm sure you can figure it out. The sample for all races is from the same deprived inner city area. She doesn't cover the leafy suburbs nearby.

Of course, work ethic is not the same as intellegence so this could also explain the A-level results. At the same time you could just argue that she is racist and only remembering the negative experiences with black customers, kinda like people are saying about this Dr. Watson bloke.

PeteBrant

You are, of course, quite right to point this out, and I wan't trying to suggest that deprivation is the reasoning behind the results, I was just saying that it could be interpreted that way, and in several other ways I should imagine. What I was trying to say is that just because one particular race has better GCSE grades than another does not automatically mean that that race is inherently more intelligent.
As you say later in your post, a work ethic is not a measure of intelligence. But I wouldn't be so arrogant as to dissmiss your Mothers experiences out of hand. On a purely observational level, look at the amount of high percentage, in relative terms, of Asian doctors there are. Why is this? Peronally I have no idea, If I had to guess I would say it is down to upbringing and family. It is another statistic that a higher percentage of Black kids come from single parent families. How does this feed into the mix?

The problem I have with suggesting that one race is more intelligent than another is that it breeds prejudice. Some people will assume that, say, a black barrister is going to be less effective than a Chinese one. Purely based on race. Which of course is an immensly stupid thing to do.

Suresh

Perhaps this will help. It is highly indicative rather than conclusive -
Nature versus nurture in the IQ debate

Evidence suggests that family environmental factors may have an effect upon childhood IQ, accounting for up to a quarter of the variance. On the other hand, by late adolescence this correlation disappears, such that adoptive siblings are no more similar in IQ than strangers.[8] Moreover, adoption studies indicate that, by adulthood, adoptive siblings are no more similar in IQ than strangers (IQ correlation near zero), while full siblings show an IQ correlation of 0.6. Twin studies reinforce this pattern: monozygotic (identical) twins raised separately are highly similar in IQ (0.86), more so than dizygotic (fraternal) twins raised together (0.6) and much more than adoptive siblings (~0.0). [9] Consequently, in the context of the "nature versus nurture" debate, the "nature" component appears to be much more important than the "nurture" component in explaining IQ variance in the general adult population of the United States.

Nature versus nurture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chip Sengravy

Not read all the thread, but it seems to me that people of a dark skinned origin, in their home habitat, are happy to expend ( for example ) say 300 joules of energy, to dig up an edible root, then spend another 100 preparing it, waste a good fire cooking it, all for a paltry offering of something that not only looks revolting, but has the nutritional content of a small offcut of MDF.

So yes, not very bright.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Not commenting on the "truth" of the statement, but :-
In my experience those who lack intelligence usually compensate with cunning.

Regardless of race, creed or colour.

Dunx

dpb

You alsolutly right Chippty- any other idiot in their position would get a nice Sainsburys takaway full of enriching chicken constitute, gluten ,'flavour enchancers' and all the other good things we all live for .

Chip Sengravy

Not me *****, I shop at Waitrose

dpb

Im surprised they let yo badass mo f**ker anywhere near

Do they have them in central Manc. then ...

Lum

I dont dismiss my mothers experiences out of hand. She has spent 20 years working mainly with young people, but certainly not exclusively, she has had former company directors on her "how to get a job" courses. I also know damn well that she is not racist, she will take the **** out of anyone and laugh at racist jokes, but most of the ones she texts to me are about pakistanis, the very same people who she praises for their work ethic. I am convinced that, for her part of the country at least, her observations are correct and accurate, but that still doesn't mean that any one particular black person I encounter will reflect her experiences, and if said person is motivated and a hard worker then I respect them, in the same way if I encounter a Chinese person who is a lazy ****er, i wont respect them.

Well yes, that is the problem with research like this, it gives ammunition to those who wish to be racist, but lets be honest here, the kind of person who is likely to discriminate against black people based on this research was almost 100% likely to discriminate against black people anyway. I challenge you to find one person who has decided to no-longer employ black people based on Dr. Watson's comments. I can find you plenty of people who dont employ black people anyway, and some of them will say "see, I told you I was right" after seeing this article, but most of them will also struggle to answer when I point out that they also dont employ Chinese.

I also must re-state my earlier post, everyone is an individual, and even if they come from a background that is allegedly (or even scientifically proven to be) mostly stupid and lazy you should not assume that this person will be like that until they have shown that they are. I say this as someone from Liverpool!

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Forgive me for speaking my mind, but,

To say that black people are "less intelligent" is a load of sh1te. It's almost akin to saying white people are "the most intelligent"

People are either bright or stupid, intelligent or thick. Race doesn't come into it IMO.

Yesterday, someone drove their car into the back of my van, whilst I was stationary in traffic, Tyne Tunnel rush hour for anyone that knows the area I'm from; a stupid ******* asian/pakistani/other(he was tanned like Ali from my local shop) was on his phone at the time. Don't know what he does for a living, but he was ******* stupid at the time, doesn't make him un-intelligent.

A friend of mine was in a very serious car crash recently, his next door neighbour is a neurologist. His neighbour is as black as the ace of spades, to coin a phrase, thoroughly nice bloke and bloody clever at the same time.

With reports like this, there is far too much tarring everyone with the same brush.

At the end of the day, who is that qualified to say what is an acceptable level of intelligence? Certainly not the person who published their findings.

davegtt

Shut up you thicko

Diesel

Can I add 'culture of expectation' into the racial mix? Stereotypically Asian parents want their kids to be doctors or dentists, white british want their kids to be happy in whatever they do and black parents want...???

The more I've read this thread, the more that I have concluded that there can not be any debate about intelligence as defined in a purely ethnic racial context.

LOL @ Snug and the Family Fortunes The whole defining intelligence idea by race really is that funny. Les Dennis: "name a bird with a long neck"; contestant: "Naomi Campbell". LOL

D

Lum

I agree with the above, even if the research is true, that doesn't suddenly make your intelligent black neighbour into a raving idiot.

On the other hand, at a stastical level it's a curiosity at best, especially for those who deal with individuals.

I suppose a grey area starts to form when you are doing risk assessment and dealing with large groups of people. Dr. Watson's findings, if correct, may suddenly affect how you do things.

If you are organising police coverage for a concert that is expected to attract 10,000 people of whom 99% will be Jamaican, would you police it differently than you would a similar concert that is expected to attract 10,000 people of whom 99% will be Japanese?

Diesel

YES!

D

Lum

ok, how and why would you police it differently. Would you have more drug checks, for example?

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Different culture behave different ways.

Common belief is that the Jamaican's would have a load of spliff's with them, whereas the Japanese probably wouldn't.

Who's to say it wouldn't be the other way round. Who's to say the belief wouldn't be accurate.

In the situation, people will do what they think to be right at the time. Whether it's right or wrong is open for debate.