Dream Weaver

Which leads on to my point of why bother at all? I never really drive anywhere near the limit as I prefer quick acceleration rather than hooning round twisty roads, but if we should never drive anywhere quickly on the road then why bother at all - we may as well sell our cars and buy pushbikes or MPV's.

Trackdays could be the answer but they are expensive, run on odd days (my next one is a Wednesday) and not easy to get to for some folk (only Oulton near me).

I agree that driving like a dick on the road is a no-no, but we all get the red mist at times and give it some beans and each one of us could end up in this situation.

IMO, he shouldn't have gone to prison, he was/is already racked with guilt so that is sentence enough - why fill the prisons up with normal folk like him that make a simple error and allow the scum out on the streets that do street robbery, mugging etc.

There are lots of bikers having a go at that lad on the PH thread, but the biker does need to take some of the blame* - a biker chooses to ride a bike, which inherently has more risk than a car - it may be other road users who cause an accident, but the increased risk is there - if was in a car he would be OK.

He should also have been riding slower.

* Edit: I'm leaving the word in so the thread makes sense, but I have used the wrong word here and re-iterate this further down the thread.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

TBH that's bollox. They've already said the bike wasn't speeding at all and had little or no time to react (about a second) so even then wouldn't have stopped.

Using your logic rape victims should take some responsibility because "they clearly wanted it really" or it is your fault you got burgled because you bought that big TV. Hokey.

The guy in the thread shouldn't have gone to prison though. It hasn't done anything and how often do you see people getting much softer sentences for the same thing? As usual being honest and otherwise sensible member of society has gone against him.

I think it has helped him deal with his guilt over it though, he at least feels like he has been punished which i think helped him get through it.

5t.

Sonic'

You should also add, although you can account for your own actions, you certainly cannont account for any other road users actions whilst driving/riding etc

WRX_Dazza

i think rather than prison, this guy could have gone on to help the family involved, which would have taught a better lesson and offered something worthwhile!!!

six of one... etc...

sad story, indeed!

mrtheedge2u2

Ever since I crashed my BMW, and almost chopped myself in half, by driving beyond the limit of the conditions I have certainly altered the way I drive.... those people who have me on facebook have seen the pics of said accident...

SiPie

Oh dear

Flatcapdriver

Yeah, but for reasons that are still unexplained he couldn't stop in time so taking the it to its ultimate conclusion if you don't leave sufficient time/space to come to a complete halt (with the view of the road that you have) then he was travelling too fast.

Easily done, I mean we all do it whether it be a 20mph corner or a 60mph corner - if you can't stop in time, then you're travelling too fast.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Was he just going too fast and lost it then? Any other mitigating circumstances? I cant find anything else. sombre story indeed. i know what the bloke above is saying about bikes. They are death traps because you cannot account for others actions and of the modes of motor transport you are the most vulnerable. it's a risk bikers knowingly take for their passion.

Dream Weaver

Exactly my point, maybe I didn't put it across well enough. I have a blind 90 degree bend near my house that often has people on horses around the corner as there is a riding school there - there have been many collisions on said bend so I now have to come to a near complete stop whilst travelling around that bend to ensure there are no horses/horseboxes around the corner.

My point was that even though the biker was reported to be doing between 30-60 mph and well within the limit, he should have been able to stop within time if there was an obstacle in the way - its pedantic, but going by the highway code that is how we should drive/ride.

Dream Weaver

Why oh dear? Are you denying that when you go out on a motorbike you don't take a bigger risk than going out in a car, whether it be your own actions or the actions of others? Its a fact that you have far more chance of dying on a bike than in a car.

When I go out in my car I also take a risk that someone will drive too fast and crash into me - if I took a bike out the risk would be greater - that's all I'm saying, I love bikes and have nothing against them or people that ride them.

Except for 1 idiot of 5 bikers that cut me up on a Gixxer whilst going to the lakes last weekend and nearly forced me off the road at Kirby

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I think you'd have to be very harsh to blame the biker in any way shape or form.

5t.

mrtheedge2u2

Dream weaver.... to say that he is partly to blame purely for riding a bike is a crazy statement..... if a cyclist gets knocked down or a person run over by a car mounting a pavement is it their fault for walking at that time?

SiPie

I appreciate what's behind your comments Dream Weaver

I commute on bicycle so am well aware that I accept an increse in day to day risk.

I don't see how that means that any part of the 'blame' should lie with the biker though

It's all very well saying that you should slow down to 1 mph as you approach blind corner's etc but the reality is that we don't.

So....maybe the biker should have been travelling a bit slower but I certainly wouldn't apportion any blame to him in this one.

Devildog

Of course you take a bigger risk, DW, but that should have no bearing on the outcome.

Some things in the story don't add up, though, and whilst the guy is genuinely remorseful, it can't be ignored that he got 3 months in prison, but kept his job and his life. The biker was clearly not so lucky.

10 pence short says that he knew the road well, yet still managed to lose it to the extent of sliding 50 yards sideways. In a DC2 ITR.

Sobering story for many, zero sympathy for the car driver.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I think his time is prison was justified, he was driving dangerously and lost control and badly hurt a motorcyclist who was out of action for a long time and will probably never be quite right, he admits his mistake and took his punishment with dignity.

As for the motorcyclist being partly at fault for riding a bike, there is a (small) element of truth to that, every biker knows the risks they are taking and the comparative rates for death and injury compared to other modes of transport, I ride a pushbike on the road and accept I may suffer more injury than if I take my 5 star safety rated Saab with all its airbags and electronics, nobody deserves that but it is a risk that you accept every time you turn the key.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

You take a risk of greater injury if involved in an accident but what you are saying here is that the biker was partly to blame for the accident, simply by being on a bike which is clearly clap trap.

5t.

Dream Weaver

I suppose I shouldn't have included the word "blame", as the Teg driver obviously caused the situation, but what would have been the story if it was a broken down car around that corner, or an elderly person that had had a heart attack and crashed their car in the same way?

So lets say someone has broken down in their car just before that blind bend (it could be one of your own relatives for the sake of this story), and they manage to coast there car around the corner where it stops and they cannot move the car in time.

Biker comes round the blind corner too fast to stop, piles into the stricken car and somehow manages to kill the car occupant - same biker, same corner, same speed.

Who is the guilty party then?

As said, blame was probably the wrong choice of word but my point was the biker maybe could have avoided the situation by slowing down more just in case of an obstacle? The biker was also familiar with the route as he used it many times to go to his holiday home so both parties will have been guilty of going too fast IMO.

Dream Weaver

If he was travelling a lot slower into that "blind" bend, then he would have been able to react to that obstacle and come to a stop.

Spoon

I know what you are saying there but the car driver does know he did wrong and does freely admit that. Sympathy isn't what he's looking for from what I can gather. He tells the story to highlight what most have done and luckily, in most cases, got away with.

He's definitely learned a lesson and not they way he'd have liked to either.

The bike rider had no chance of stopping despite the pro 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' brigade. Yes he was more vulnerable on a bike but he had every right to be there.

As a victim of something similar but on a bigger scale I can see both sides to this. Prison wasn't the answer for him but then what was in our society?

I lay in a hospital bed next to a 7 year old on a ventilator who was the victim of a hit and run. The car drivers mates shopped him and brought him into the hospital to show him what he'd done. Not something I'll ever forget I can tell you.

I wish the motorcyclist all the very best for the future but I wish the car driver the same too. He made a terrible mistake that he won't ever make again. How many of todays scum could say that?

They're the people I'd have no sympathy for.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I would say no. Yes you should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear but where does it say you should be able to stop where that distance is being closed down by a still moving car blocking both sides of the road?

We aren't talking about a parked car here we are talking about a still moving vehicle on the wrong side of the road, indeed blocking the road so evasive manuveres were not possible, and was still goping quick enough to push a heavy, Harley engined Buell, 14ft down a road.

It is not and never will be the bikers fault.

5t.

Spoon

Remember the law is daft and you are a percentage to blame for being there.

SiPie

Agree Dream Weaver

I learned this lesson years ago on my favourite country twisty.....(obvioulsy knew it like the back of my hand). Came quickly round a left hander (high hedge on left) to find a horse and carriage carrying a bride to a country church at around 5mph max.....

Just managed to avoid a collision

Lesson truly learned

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Were they blocking the road and coming towards you though or did you have space to shift?

Totally different.

5t.

RB5_245

That was one of the best threads I've read in a long time, start to finish. 10 pence seems to have missed his calling as an author and did well to be so polite when the trolling started.

I think his situation is one that 99% of us could have been in at some point. Rather than procrastinating about what if's and blames I think it's worth stopping to think about the authors point to posting his story.

Dave

Dream Weaver

In the thread he says he spun the Teg and then when he hit the verge he still had his foot on the throttle pedal which launched him across on to the wrong side of the road blocking the bikes path - it was at that point the bike hit him, and the car was moving, but only just from one side of the road to the other so maybe 2mph.

Have you actually viewed the video of the road? It's quite wide where the accident happened and even though the OP says his car blocked the road it looks too wide to me.

This is all speculation though as none of us will ever know what fully happened, even the car driver himself.

I never said anywhere that it was the bikers fault, it was clearly the car driver causing the accident.

SiPie

Blocking my side of the road only but being a left hander you don't want to stray to the other side of the road......

Obviously it's different, but it just taught me that you truly never know just what's round the corner.....





Just imagine......thumping someone else's wife hard from behind on her wedding day

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I really can't believe what i'm reading here.

The car was sideways across the road. It is shown in the pics. the guy flew over the roof.

It had to have been moving quick otherwise the bike would not have travelled back down the road.

The only person to blame here is 10PS and well done for admitting it and saying so. Not sure why others want to defend it. Of course when taking a left hand bend everyone blaming the bike is always on the wrong side of the road so they get the best view round the corner...? Didn't think so.

As i already said applying this logic if your wife/sister/girlfriend/daughter goes out all dressed up and gets raped on the way home you are saying it is her fault for being there and leading the bloke on by showing a bit of leg. An extreme case but this is what you are saying. Have a think about it.

Also if he was to blame by going too fast - why didn't the Police prosecute him for it?

5t.

Dream Weaver

You can't apply the rape analogy to this story - a rapist is pre-meditated and actively goes out to rape another person. This RTA is simply 2 people in the wrong place at the wrong time.

To apply the rape analogy to this accident, you would have to say that some bloke was waving his **** about for a laugh, went too far for the slippy conditions and fell over and your wife/girlfriend/sister happened to be in the way and was penetrated by the bloke purely by accident - there was no intent by either party.

None of the points above are saying its the bikers fault, it is 100% the car drivers fault, but the biker could have come off better if he had slowed down for a blind bend.

fivetide - are you telling us that you drive around blind bends at 30-40mph without a care in the world or wondering whether there isn't an obstacle round the corner, and you do this on a bike where an accident will end up worse than in a car?

I know if I ever bought a bike (which I wont), I would be very careful on quick/blind bends, I'm ultra careful just in my car.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Exactly.

Your counter argument makes no sense - what about claiming they'd been 'led on' until she decided to say no. It doesn't have to be someone going out with the intention - same as 10PS.

And i'm sure i've gone round corners on roads that i know well safely but unable to stop if traffic was coming towards me blocking the entire road. It isn't something you can legislate for. Cows etc you know are in the area, if you know the road you know if these obstacles are present. Who is saying that he wouldn't have been able to stop if it was a parked car? The point is it was side on across the road and closing. The Police experts attribute nothing to him whatsoever but it seems several people on here, having had a wee read of the story have decided the bike was goign too fast. I say again, if that was the case why didn't the Police mention it?

Do you do left hand corners on the wrong side of the road? Do you drive up to crests in the road at 20mph when the road is 60? I bet you don't but the effect is the same as goign round a blind bend.

5t.

Dream Weaver

Sorry, it replied before I finished, reply above.