Prison Story - Pistonheads
31 October 2007, 04:19 PM
#61
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Oh, and the Police probably thought the biker had been hurt enough without presecuting him as well, coppers are human and do have compassion.
Besides, the driver pleaded guilty so there was no defense/other charges.
Besides, the driver pleaded guilty so there was no defense/other charges.
31 October 2007, 04:32 PM
#62
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Dude, i'm with you on this.
Having watched the video and having driven 10,000 miles in a DC2 ITR, there is no way you would lose the back end of one unless you were driving way above the NSL and like a bit of a tit, to be honest.
And that, I suspect, is why the poster is so open to accept the blame, and fair play to him for doing that.
The poster comments about drag marks in the road where the car and bike collided, and the buke was pushed back - that's only going to happen if the car was still moving in the direction of travel.
So what he have is a bike travelling round a blind bend, to be faced with a car sliding towards it, sideways.
Unless the bike had been almost at a standstill, the collision ould appear to have been inevitable.
Having watched the video and having driven 10,000 miles in a DC2 ITR, there is no way you would lose the back end of one unless you were driving way above the NSL and like a bit of a tit, to be honest.
And that, I suspect, is why the poster is so open to accept the blame, and fair play to him for doing that.
The poster comments about drag marks in the road where the car and bike collided, and the buke was pushed back - that's only going to happen if the car was still moving in the direction of travel.
So what he have is a bike travelling round a blind bend, to be faced with a car sliding towards it, sideways.
Unless the bike had been almost at a standstill, the collision ould appear to have been inevitable.
31 October 2007, 04:37 PM
#63
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In the thread he says he spun the Teg and then when he hit the verge he still had his foot on the throttle pedal which launched him across on to the wrong side of the road blocking the bikes path - it was at that point the bike hit him, and the car was moving, but only just from one side of the road to the other so maybe 2mph.
He also states that the car was moving sideways, which would be in the original direction of travel.
31 October 2007, 04:59 PM
#65
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The driver drove criminally and was the cause of the accident...end of.
31 October 2007, 05:13 PM
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31 October 2007, 05:37 PM
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31 October 2007, 05:39 PM
#69
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A bike rider is at a higher risk that a car driver. A pedestrian as at a higher risk than either the biker or driver.
The girl in the short skirt in the rough pub is at a higher risk as she draws attention to herself - she can't help it if that attention is unwanted - hence why "blame" is not the correct word.
However, horrible and moving story. I notice early in the thread some mention "The fear". I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels it.
31 October 2007, 05:44 PM
#70
Fivetide, I think you are missing my point, no blame whatsover with the biker, the ITR driver 10 PS was driving too fast, end of. The point I was making is that everyone who uses the roads takes a risk to a greater or lesser extent of being splattered through no fault of their own and you choose your method of travel and its well known that bikes arent the safest of the available methods, you buy a bike, you take that risk, you buy a car you take a similar but lesser risk, it is your decision. It is not a case of apportioning any blame to the biker, had the same bloke have chosen a Volvo XC90 it would be 10PS with the life threatening injuries.
Sounds like 10ps is basically an intelligent, thoughtful chap who got carried away.
Its funny, this morning I saw a red ITR getting thrapped through Bingley, sounded nice, going way too fast though.
Sounds like 10ps is basically an intelligent, thoughtful chap who got carried away.
Its funny, this morning I saw a red ITR getting thrapped through Bingley, sounded nice, going way too fast though.
31 October 2007, 05:45 PM
#71
There was this quote on there, cheeky (but probably right) sod.
10 Pence - your fairly courageous post has had much impact on my firm belief that I am the World's Greatest Driver (insert sarcastic smiley) and how our cosy little world can be smashed and destroyed in a split second. I don't mind admitting your words caused me to shed a tear or two. I will drive much more carefully. You should post on Scooby-net, Saxo-net, and the other boy racer forums. You might cause someone else to slow down enough to save life and limb. Respect.
10 Pence - your fairly courageous post has had much impact on my firm belief that I am the World's Greatest Driver (insert sarcastic smiley) and how our cosy little world can be smashed and destroyed in a split second. I don't mind admitting your words caused me to shed a tear or two. I will drive much more carefully. You should post on Scooby-net, Saxo-net, and the other boy racer forums. You might cause someone else to slow down enough to save life and limb. Respect.
31 October 2007, 08:23 PM
#72
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Two hours of reading this thread and a whole range of emotions.
As concluded already: A lesson to be learned and an appropriate reminder of consequences to most of the Scoobynet community.
The people who curiously analyse the incident are possibly closer to being involved in similar circumstances than most.
Top marks to Mr 10p for opening his soul.
Nik
As concluded already: A lesson to be learned and an appropriate reminder of consequences to most of the Scoobynet community.
The people who curiously analyse the incident are possibly closer to being involved in similar circumstances than most.
Top marks to Mr 10p for opening his soul.
Nik
01 November 2007, 10:55 AM
#73
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It's only this past 3-4 years that I really do fear having an accident. On a B-road blast now I will rarely go above 60mph, and tend to drive slowly around any tight bends - if its wet then I am very slow. I just spend all the time whilst driving quickly thinking what would happen if I spun it, or had a head on, or had a blow out - the thoughts are always there
And thats one reason I am actually reducing the power on my weekend 205 as its too fast now.
Fivetide, I think you are missing my point, no blame whatsover with the biker, the ITR driver 10 PS was driving too fast, end of. The point I was making is that everyone who uses the roads takes a risk to a greater or lesser extent of being splattered through no fault of their own and you choose your method of travel and its well known that bikes arent the safest of the available methods, you buy a bike, you take that risk, you buy a car you take a similar but lesser risk, it is your decision. It is not a case of apportioning any blame to the biker, had the same bloke have chosen a Volvo XC90 it would be 10PS with the life threatening injuries.
The PH thread has had a huge impact on me though - I took the 205 out yesterday to pick my son up, and apart from a brief spurt on the loud pedal going up the slip to the Mway, I drove very carefully the rest of the way. Time to sell up and buy a cruiser I think
01 November 2007, 08:36 PM
#74
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I too have read the thread in its entirety. Tbh i am saddened by the attitudes of some people on PH and on here. Why do people feel the need to analyse what happened?
At the end of the day, someone(10ps) made a mistake. His mistake being his own confidence in his ability and that of his car. He's paid the price, as has the motorcyclist and no matter what is said, nothing will change the outcome. He has posted his story to educate people about what can happen to the everyday joe bloggs going about his business. It doesnt matter about where he was going and who he was going with, nor does it matter about the bikers speed/control.
If we are all really honest with ourselves, we have all done things in our cars/on our bikes that made us think 'OMG' for a split second. As far as i can see, the point he was trying to make was, that we should never reach the OMG situation.
I'm not saying that if we all drove slower, nothing would ever happen, but if we all applied the common sense we were born with, things like this would be a rarity.
I've seen some shocking displays of unbelievable driving as have most of us no doubt, but the one thing we can all learn, is that none of us are immortal.
I for one, after reading that thread, have stopped taking unnecessary risks. I am not, and never really was, a speed merchant, but i used the scoob and the bike to its ability, and took whatever overtaking opportunity came my way. Now, for the sake of 10yds, i will sit behind and wait till my view is absolutely clear and unobstructed before pulling out. I have nearly always plodded round country roads(except on the odd occasion, when yes, red mist has got the better of me) but now, any thought of driving like a t**t round 'the twisties' has gone. I would rather me and my pride and joy, got home in one piece than become another 'i told you so' statistic.
Can i just say too, that country roads are where country pursuits take place, ie horse riding and farming, therefore it is even more likely, that there may be something on the road around that bend that you need to take into consideration. I know of many animals that have been startled by cars/bikes belting up behind them and have seen the carnage for myself. Sorry for rambling, but i feel i need to voice my opinion.
Steff
P.s I drive a scoob, ride a CBR6 motorbike and ride a horse, oh and was brought up on a farm..in case anyone was wondering
At the end of the day, someone(10ps) made a mistake. His mistake being his own confidence in his ability and that of his car. He's paid the price, as has the motorcyclist and no matter what is said, nothing will change the outcome. He has posted his story to educate people about what can happen to the everyday joe bloggs going about his business. It doesnt matter about where he was going and who he was going with, nor does it matter about the bikers speed/control.
If we are all really honest with ourselves, we have all done things in our cars/on our bikes that made us think 'OMG' for a split second. As far as i can see, the point he was trying to make was, that we should never reach the OMG situation.
I'm not saying that if we all drove slower, nothing would ever happen, but if we all applied the common sense we were born with, things like this would be a rarity.
I've seen some shocking displays of unbelievable driving as have most of us no doubt, but the one thing we can all learn, is that none of us are immortal.
I for one, after reading that thread, have stopped taking unnecessary risks. I am not, and never really was, a speed merchant, but i used the scoob and the bike to its ability, and took whatever overtaking opportunity came my way. Now, for the sake of 10yds, i will sit behind and wait till my view is absolutely clear and unobstructed before pulling out. I have nearly always plodded round country roads(except on the odd occasion, when yes, red mist has got the better of me) but now, any thought of driving like a t**t round 'the twisties' has gone. I would rather me and my pride and joy, got home in one piece than become another 'i told you so' statistic.
Can i just say too, that country roads are where country pursuits take place, ie horse riding and farming, therefore it is even more likely, that there may be something on the road around that bend that you need to take into consideration. I know of many animals that have been startled by cars/bikes belting up behind them and have seen the carnage for myself. Sorry for rambling, but i feel i need to voice my opinion.
Steff
P.s I drive a scoob, ride a CBR6 motorbike and ride a horse, oh and was brought up on a farm..in case anyone was wondering
01 November 2007, 08:49 PM
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Didnt Dougster from here turn his Scoob Wagon upside down in a field, as there was a horse or trailer for a horse stopped in the middle of the road around the blind ben
01 November 2007, 08:55 PM
#76
We nearly collided with some Horses, up near Mellor in Stockport, on mountain bikes, came round a corner and they were stood there, I had hydraulic brakes and a better line so stopped ok, my brother had to go through the middle or stick his head up a horses **** in the manner of the Commondant in Police academy. Cue lots of tutting from Horsey types, perhaps standing in the middle of a well used downhill route after a corner isnt such a good idea ?
Perhaps move to the side
Perhaps move to the side
01 November 2007, 10:49 PM
#77
I too have read the thread in its entirety. Tbh i am saddened by the attitudes of some people on PH and on here. Why do people feel the need to analyse what happened?
At the end of the day, someone(10ps) made a mistake. His mistake being his own confidence in his ability and that of his car. He's paid the price, as has the motorcyclist and no matter what is said, nothing will change the outcome. He has posted his story to educate people about what can happen to the everyday joe bloggs going about his business. It doesnt matter about where he was going and who he was going with, nor does it matter about the bikers speed/control.
If we are all really honest with ourselves, we have all done things in our cars/on our bikes that made us think 'OMG' for a split second. As far as i can see, the point he was trying to make was, that we should never reach the OMG situation.
I'm not saying that if we all drove slower, nothing would ever happen, but if we all applied the common sense we were born with, things like this would be a rarity.
I've seen some shocking displays of unbelievable driving as have most of us no doubt, but the one thing we can all learn, is that none of us are immortal.
I for one, after reading that thread, have stopped taking unnecessary risks. I am not, and never really was, a speed merchant, but i used the scoob and the bike to its ability, and took whatever overtaking opportunity came my way. Now, for the sake of 10yds, i will sit behind and wait till my view is absolutely clear and unobstructed before pulling out. I have nearly always plodded round country roads(except on the odd occasion, when yes, red mist has got the better of me) but now, any thought of driving like a t**t round 'the twisties' has gone. I would rather me and my pride and joy, got home in one piece than become another 'i told you so' statistic.
Can i just say too, that country roads are where country pursuits take place, ie horse riding and farming, therefore it is even more likely, that there may be something on the road around that bend that you need to take into consideration. I know of many animals that have been startled by cars/bikes belting up behind them and have seen the carnage for myself. Sorry for rambling, but i feel i need to voice my opinion.
Steff
P.s I drive a scoob, ride a CBR6 motorbike and ride a horse, oh and was brought up on a farm..in case anyone was wondering
At the end of the day, someone(10ps) made a mistake. His mistake being his own confidence in his ability and that of his car. He's paid the price, as has the motorcyclist and no matter what is said, nothing will change the outcome. He has posted his story to educate people about what can happen to the everyday joe bloggs going about his business. It doesnt matter about where he was going and who he was going with, nor does it matter about the bikers speed/control.
If we are all really honest with ourselves, we have all done things in our cars/on our bikes that made us think 'OMG' for a split second. As far as i can see, the point he was trying to make was, that we should never reach the OMG situation.
I'm not saying that if we all drove slower, nothing would ever happen, but if we all applied the common sense we were born with, things like this would be a rarity.
I've seen some shocking displays of unbelievable driving as have most of us no doubt, but the one thing we can all learn, is that none of us are immortal.
I for one, after reading that thread, have stopped taking unnecessary risks. I am not, and never really was, a speed merchant, but i used the scoob and the bike to its ability, and took whatever overtaking opportunity came my way. Now, for the sake of 10yds, i will sit behind and wait till my view is absolutely clear and unobstructed before pulling out. I have nearly always plodded round country roads(except on the odd occasion, when yes, red mist has got the better of me) but now, any thought of driving like a t**t round 'the twisties' has gone. I would rather me and my pride and joy, got home in one piece than become another 'i told you so' statistic.
Can i just say too, that country roads are where country pursuits take place, ie horse riding and farming, therefore it is even more likely, that there may be something on the road around that bend that you need to take into consideration. I know of many animals that have been startled by cars/bikes belting up behind them and have seen the carnage for myself. Sorry for rambling, but i feel i need to voice my opinion.
Steff
P.s I drive a scoob, ride a CBR6 motorbike and ride a horse, oh and was brought up on a farm..in case anyone was wondering
02 November 2007, 02:18 AM
#78
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Have you read all the comments made by the person who went to jail?
His car was not stationary, it was still moving on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend, your above points have been argued and discussed on that thread
As the person himself said, he was driving in a manner that was classed as dangerous, as he himself went into the corner to fast for the road and lost control and as a direct result caused the accident, the other evidence against him was all of his posts made on a car forum too which went against him
His car was not stationary, it was still moving on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend, your above points have been argued and discussed on that thread
As the person himself said, he was driving in a manner that was classed as dangerous, as he himself went into the corner to fast for the road and lost control and as a direct result caused the accident, the other evidence against him was all of his posts made on a car forum too which went against him
I went from his story which describes his car straddling the road giving the impression that he had stopped as well as the reference to it hanging over a ditch.
Losing control is not always in itself an act of dangerous driving - he could well have argued that he misjudged the bend [careless], or underestimated his speed [careless even if he was breaking the speed limit] so I stand by my comments that a good brief may well have got the charge down to careless driving.
Again, the views of other motorists prior to the actual accident can often be discounted by good counsel if those motorists did not see the actual shunt as it could easily be argued that he had slowed down.
I am very surprised his insurance company did not give him better support to minimise their losses when the motorcyclist claimed too.
The over-riding impression I got is that the guy beat himself up so much over the shunt and its consequences that he resigned himself to going down. Praiseworthy in some ways that he was honest and decent, but it hasn't fixed anything - the motorcyclist is still very severely injured. The car driver is highly unlikely to offfend again unlike some of the toerags who thumb their noses at justice and the police every single day, so I don't see what the jail sentence delivered in this particular case.
I acknowledge I only have the story line as presented and it is a very compelling and sobering read as well as having very unfortunate outcomes for the car driver and the motorcyclist.
02 November 2007, 10:16 PM
#79
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A sobering tale, as stated by others it does make you think !
I was lucky in that my only bad crash was a single vehicle incident....
But I also thought about pedestrians that could have been around
Dunx
My only excuse would be BTCC favourite, cold rear tyres !
Off to read the bikers input now. Sadly have lost friends in the past.
I was lucky in that my only bad crash was a single vehicle incident....
But I also thought about pedestrians that could have been around
Dunx
My only excuse would be BTCC favourite, cold rear tyres !
Off to read the bikers input now. Sadly have lost friends in the past.
03 November 2007, 01:05 AM
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Very sobering read and good reminder for me and everyone - why I am intent on keeping my aggressive driving for the track.
It's a fact of life, accidents can happen anywhere, I have had 5 accidents in my driving time (14 years), all were the other party's fault but 2 of those accidents really turned my life upside down.
The one that I remember to this day (and the one that contributed to me driving more safely) involved a medium sized lorry. I was travelling at about 5 mph trying to navigate a double round about to go right, out of nowhere a lorry hit the back of my Honda Civic, sending me spinning across into on coming traffic and sending the lorry driver across the round about into a lamp post.
I couldn't move at first due to having the wind knocked out of me, instinctively I got out, had a quick look at my car and turned around to the car that had skidded in the on coming lane. The woman was in more shock than me, as she got out to ask if I was okay I quickly asked if she was okay and then ran to the lorry drivers aid.
He wasn't wearing his seat belt and as a result had gone through his wind screen landing on the grass verge - apart from a cut to his head he seemed okay, at that point I felt a horrific pain rise up through my spine to my head and I collapsed.
I have no memory of what happened after that apart from waking up in hospital a few weeks later and finding out I was on a back board unable to move due to some serious injuries to my spine. I was told due to my muscle mass (I was and still am an active body builder), my spine was spared from serious injury, turns out the lorry had split my car in half from the impact and this caused my body to literally twist from the forces as the car spun around several times.
Had I been going earlier I probably would have been chewing on the lorrys engine bay. I have recovered thankfully from those injuries but my back does play up now and then and I am left crippled for a while until it decides to sort itself out (my lower back muscles spasm sometimes due to the nerve damage so I can't support my body weight).
Second time involved a Merc driving head on into me, how I walked away from that I don't know.
We all go through some bad patches, I was an unfortunate victim but I stopped blaming the lorry driver, we were both in the wrong place at the wrong time. Incidently he nerver saw me, the winter sun caused a flash spot in the road resulting in my car being invisible for a split second... (but he was travelling way to fast) - I got over it eventually and I don't blame him, it made me a better driver in the long run.
It worries me how many people are on our roads though, everyone is in a rush to get somewhere and this usually results in accidents - hate to say it but far too many cars on the road, especially on a little piece of rock that is England!
Safe driving amigo's!
It's a fact of life, accidents can happen anywhere, I have had 5 accidents in my driving time (14 years), all were the other party's fault but 2 of those accidents really turned my life upside down.
The one that I remember to this day (and the one that contributed to me driving more safely) involved a medium sized lorry. I was travelling at about 5 mph trying to navigate a double round about to go right, out of nowhere a lorry hit the back of my Honda Civic, sending me spinning across into on coming traffic and sending the lorry driver across the round about into a lamp post.
I couldn't move at first due to having the wind knocked out of me, instinctively I got out, had a quick look at my car and turned around to the car that had skidded in the on coming lane. The woman was in more shock than me, as she got out to ask if I was okay I quickly asked if she was okay and then ran to the lorry drivers aid.
He wasn't wearing his seat belt and as a result had gone through his wind screen landing on the grass verge - apart from a cut to his head he seemed okay, at that point I felt a horrific pain rise up through my spine to my head and I collapsed.
I have no memory of what happened after that apart from waking up in hospital a few weeks later and finding out I was on a back board unable to move due to some serious injuries to my spine. I was told due to my muscle mass (I was and still am an active body builder), my spine was spared from serious injury, turns out the lorry had split my car in half from the impact and this caused my body to literally twist from the forces as the car spun around several times.
Had I been going earlier I probably would have been chewing on the lorrys engine bay. I have recovered thankfully from those injuries but my back does play up now and then and I am left crippled for a while until it decides to sort itself out (my lower back muscles spasm sometimes due to the nerve damage so I can't support my body weight).
Second time involved a Merc driving head on into me, how I walked away from that I don't know.
We all go through some bad patches, I was an unfortunate victim but I stopped blaming the lorry driver, we were both in the wrong place at the wrong time. Incidently he nerver saw me, the winter sun caused a flash spot in the road resulting in my car being invisible for a split second... (but he was travelling way to fast) - I got over it eventually and I don't blame him, it made me a better driver in the long run.
It worries me how many people are on our roads though, everyone is in a rush to get somewhere and this usually results in accidents - hate to say it but far too many cars on the road, especially on a little piece of rock that is England!
Safe driving amigo's!
03 November 2007, 01:07 AM
#81
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but the biker does need to take some of the blame - a biker chooses to ride a bike, which inherently has more risk than a car - it may be other road users who cause an accident, but the increased risk is there - if was in a car he would be OK.
He should also have been riding slower.
He should also have been riding slower.
Fivetide I have agreed with everything you have said on this thread, how anyone can say the bike had any blame is beyond me. For those saying he should have been going slower, just how slow would you like a bike to go round a corner? Perhaps he should have had his feet down walking the bike round the feking corner, eh?
04 November 2007, 01:08 AM
#82
Scooby Regular
Bravo, I've already said that I shouldn't have used the word "blame" as that was wrong on my part, he was in no way to blame for the accident, that was 100% the car drivers fault.
But....he could still have gone round a blind corner slower and I stand by that. Estimated speed was 30-60mph, and even if it was 30 that is too much for a blind bend. If it was a broken down car, a horse, or more likely (if you view the actual video of the actual bend where it happened), a gaggle of roaming sheep, then it would have been a similar conclusion.
I was nearly killed in a 205 GTI back in 98 when I went round a blind bend too quickly and was greeted by a line of stopped cars at some roadworks traffic lights - I was lucky there was nothing coming the other way as I locked up past 3-4 cars which I would have crushed had it not been clear. Since then I don't fly round blind bends.
On a bike I would go even slower.
But....he could still have gone round a blind corner slower and I stand by that. Estimated speed was 30-60mph, and even if it was 30 that is too much for a blind bend. If it was a broken down car, a horse, or more likely (if you view the actual video of the actual bend where it happened), a gaggle of roaming sheep, then it would have been a similar conclusion.
I was nearly killed in a 205 GTI back in 98 when I went round a blind bend too quickly and was greeted by a line of stopped cars at some roadworks traffic lights - I was lucky there was nothing coming the other way as I locked up past 3-4 cars which I would have crushed had it not been clear. Since then I don't fly round blind bends.
On a bike I would go even slower.
04 November 2007, 08:07 AM
#83
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I still disagree he was going too fast if he was doing 30mph. For one a bike has to go a certain speed to stop itself from toppling over or becoming unstable through a bend unless you sit the bike up and literally steer it through the corner and if you are doing that you aren't safe on the road anyway. Add to that traffic behind you on a bike which if you were to slow below 30 will sit right up your ar$e.
The fact is another vehicle was on his side of the road coming towards him as he came round the corner giving him zero reaction time. Had he gone round the corner doing 30mph to find a stationary object in the road, whether a line of cars or a herd of sheep at 30mph he would for one have had reaction time to hit the brakes which on a bike would have stopped him fairly quickly or at least taken most of the 30mph speed off and secondly time to manouvre the bike down either the side of the object even if the choice was to take it into a hedge which at less than 30mph would be a fairly safe option as opposed to hitting an object in the road.
The fact is another vehicle was on his side of the road coming towards him as he came round the corner giving him zero reaction time. Had he gone round the corner doing 30mph to find a stationary object in the road, whether a line of cars or a herd of sheep at 30mph he would for one have had reaction time to hit the brakes which on a bike would have stopped him fairly quickly or at least taken most of the 30mph speed off and secondly time to manouvre the bike down either the side of the object even if the choice was to take it into a hedge which at less than 30mph would be a fairly safe option as opposed to hitting an object in the road.
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