DCI Gene Hunt

They were about to be

And since nobody else has bothered to say it; Menenziesenzes was also here illegally so it's his own fault for getting shot in the first place

PeteBrant

I call bull****. I mean I am not saying it didn't happen, I am just saying that if it did, it will have been reported and there is nothing anyone could have done to stop it.

If you are "made" to sign the OSA, then it's not really legally binding. I mean, I could force you to sign your house over to me, but it won't stand up in court.

It's in the government interest to give a smuch exposure to this sort of thing as possible, because it strenghten the contentious claim for stronger anti terror laws.


It is virtually impossible to silence the media in this day and age.

PeteBrant

Not according to Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary at the time.


BBC NEWS | UK | Police shot Brazilian eight times


Security sources said Mr Menezes had an out-of-date visa, but his family denied this. Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he believed he was legally in the UK.

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

All very true, but since the "war" has been going on a lot of everyones privacy and rights have been waived quite easily.....

There are things that will always be beyond our reach, and of course just as well as some are.

It does not really matter to me if you or anyone thinks it is bullcrap, were I live the cops are crap that noones cares, but at least they dont go around killing bystanders.....

PeteBrant

Were they? How do we know that, then?

In any event, are you saying that the shooting of De Menezes has directly deterred suicide bombers?

You know, the ones that have prepared themeselves for death and all that

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

The UK as it I know it has changed sooooo much in the last 10 years, and it has not always been for better. (the 20 years before that I wont even mention)


On a tangent:

At least the IRA was a bit more forthcoming in some of it's actions, but that did not make them any better.

DCI Gene Hunt

You know I'm right

And the fact that you're now quoting your evidence as "Jack Straw said" proves my point, as all politicians are liars anyway

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Anyway........back on the tracks (no pun intended) the fact is he should have not been killed.

davegtt

Says who?

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

PeteBrant

I won;t disagree with that..

However, of course, the party claiming he wasn't here legally are the metropolitan police..........

The ones that shot him, like, and said he was running away from them, and then changed thier story when they were found out to be lying

PeteBrant

Well he was Brazillian, and he used the underground after the previous days bombings. I mean he was practically begging to get shot in the face.

mrtheedge2u2

it will do Dave

DCI Gene Hunt

There's a rather good step by step account on the BBC news page that 'animates' his movements and those of the officers around him... worth a watch for anybody unsure of the real events surrounding his shooting

Hol

iTrader: (1)

I almost wish he WAS a bomber, - the police never shot him and he blew up a train load of idiots on their way to a political correctiveness convention..


We can all dream!!!


We can all lay blame, but we can not all have been THERE AT the the time and UNDER the pressure to save the lives of [supposed] said waste of space self opinionated, self serving 'trendies'.

vindaloo

I've seen it.

Shame the surveilance guys were ordered to be pussies and not arrest him. Especially after managing to get enough of a look at him to throw doubt as to his identity.

You'd think you were safe being sat on a train surrounded by 5 undercover coppers.

The Firearms "nutters" offed JCDM and then had a good think about doing one of the surveilance team too.

Utterly shameful that no individuals have been blamed for this appalling circumstance. The moment doubt was expressed as to his identity, alternative actions should have been taken.

IMO this tragedy and the squirming avoidance of any blame by Met did far more damage than another bomb going off. Any impression that those we trust to keep us safe (sic) were on the ball and fully mobilised, informed and vigilant was shattered. The whole sordid affair is more reminiscent of what I would expect of a banana republic than of a professional modern organisation.

J.

Paul3446

Apparently he'd also been snorting cocaine. Could this make you act more suspicious? I'm a Lemsip man so I don't know what affect Coke would have!

shustir

Would all the people who think it's an unfortunate 'accident' be so forgiving if they substituted Menenzes with a member of their immediate family.

chris1scouser

dear all, i've read your comments. the fact is that ian blair deliberately misled the public by saying he didn't know anything about it at first. the bizzies were not given a specific code word to fire. J C menezes was grabbed by an unrelated undercover bizzy, who by reports nearly got a round or two. the conclusion is there are rules for them and rules for us. just like recently two rare birds were shot at sandringham and no one will be held accountable for it. plus if you can get away with cheating in your exams to get into the army go for it and if your teachers catches you, she may get the sack. us peasants best just learn to be obedient.

RB5_245

Although not a fan of the way our country is run, and even with minimal faith in our police force I fail to find it plausable that commuters are shot at random on the streets of London. I which case I doubt any people that think this was an accident could susbstitute a member of their immediate family.

DCI Gene Hunt

Depends how much they annoy me

davegtt

Just one?

The Zohan

Agreed!

oh and as for demenezes acting oddly - have a look at De Menezes took cocaine, trial hears | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

In addition, his visa had run out in 2003 - so, we have an illegal who had recently taken a Cocaine - class A substance and likely to be either high or coming down and feeling paranoid and, in addiditon knowing he is in the UK illegally and being challenged by the Police.

Ultimately, he was a victim of terrorism although if he had done as the terms of his visa requested - instread of breaking the laws of the land then he would have been some 7000+kms away at the time of the incident.

I am a bit tired and bored of listening to his family bleating on about what a good boy he was, he was a coke user and here illegally, so, two serious laws this good boy had broken already. Whuilst this is not reason to shoot him De Menezis helped put himself in this position - along with the terrorist scum who helped creat it!

as for the Police and culpability - Sir Ian Bair should carry the can and will be relieved of his position soon imho!

and finally - Well done to the Met and SO19 for helping to keep this country safe under extreemely difficult and challenging circumstances and i think you will find a majority of decent, sensible people agree and back you and you actions all the way!

All the other PC knobbers can just **** off and stop meddling!

chris1scouser

dear paul i'm sorry to read how you feel but you are a deluded indivual. this country is cess pit of corruption and deceit.
you want to look at other forms of news rather than the stuff our government wishes you to view.
we side with regimes of terror and dictation all the time, we supply arms to them. for the forces of good and the war on terror. its not islam that is causing this, its the desire for power and economic growth which is destroying our world. you can only look to the most powerful countires to lay blame. honestly you don't believe what you see and read do you? i am not a conspiracy theorist but you only have to look at what happened in a tunnel in paris 10 years ago. we are under obsevation all the time we cannot do as we wish. our laws protect law breakers rather than people who abide by them. if the paedophile wishes to be relocated to near a school his wish is granted.ask a copper if this is not true? we cannot do anything about it. why do you think that the killer of Rhys Jones hasn't been caught yet? the reason is that some of merseyside police are on the payroll of the killers. they offer protection? i'd love to see it in practice! have a nice day

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for you mate:

"Never argue with idiots, they will beat with experience and bring you down to their level everytime!"

The Zohan

Me deluded - you believe some Merseyside police are in the pay of criminals - what do you have to back that up with - do tell...

A kid shot Rhys and someone in the community must know - why do they not come forward then?

And you are not a conspiracy theorist - LOL! - hmmm...

Re paedophiles - totally agree, the law protects the scum not the innocent.

Not too sure what you would "like to see in practice" though???

As for the met and SO19 - i am glad they are there and doing their jobs mate, if you think that they are all bent or in the pay of the mob then it is you are sadly deluded - the 'mets' problems lie with muddled govenment thinking, poor foreign policies, and career/self-serving top cops and politicians, not the real cops doing the job.It may not be islam doing htis but the terrorists are muslims and belive they are fighting a holy war - i suggest it is they who are deluded and twisting the meanings of religion to suit their own ends.

Questions - simple and straight forward for you.
do you think the 7/7 bombers did the right thing?
Where they justified in what they did?

The Zohan

Oh, no need to feel sorry for me - really, i'll get by

What do you mean by more forthcoming in some of its actions - 'forthcoming'???
BBC ON THIS DAY | 20 | 1993: Child killed in Warrington bomb attack
or
Men and horses lay dead and dying in the park - Times Online

the other side of the warrington tragedy is the family
The family of the boy and especially the father handled this with dignity, honesty and humility and an shining example to all
BBC NEWS | England | Merseyside | IRA victim's father meets Adams

The Zohan

<Whispers - do you know the difference between a open and honest debate and an argument> this is an open and honest debate mate - sorry for you if you do not know the difference

No SHOUTING, swearing, name calling or personal insults (yet) so hardly an argument is it

spireite

Sharon Beshenivsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but they get the **** on when one of their own gets shot

Suresh

Well said.
All the bleeding hearts on here make me sick too.

Of course it was not an incident to be proud of and much the result of tragic circumstances. Key circumstances being the activities of islamic terrorists and also John de Menzies blatant disregard for immigration laws.