Menezes
01 November 2007, 11:23 PM
#61
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Oh, no need to feel sorry for me - really, i'll get by
What do you mean by more forthcoming in some of its actions - 'forthcoming'???
BBC ON THIS DAY | 20 | 1993: Child killed in Warrington bomb attack
or
Men and horses lay dead and dying in the park - Times Online
the other side of the warrington tragedy is the family
The family of the boy and especially the father handled this with dignity, honesty and humility and an shining example to all
BBC NEWS | England | Merseyside | IRA victim's father meets Adams
What do you mean by more forthcoming in some of its actions - 'forthcoming'???
BBC ON THIS DAY | 20 | 1993: Child killed in Warrington bomb attack
or
Men and horses lay dead and dying in the park - Times Online
the other side of the warrington tragedy is the family
The family of the boy and especially the father handled this with dignity, honesty and humility and an shining example to all
BBC NEWS | England | Merseyside | IRA victim's father meets Adams
I remember some ppl a few years ago speaking along the same lines......wait......ah yes! The *****!
01 November 2007, 11:24 PM
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Well said. 
All the bleeding hearts on here make me sick too.
Of course it was not an incident to be proud of and much the result of tragic circumstances. Key circumstances being the activities of islamic terrorists and also John de Menzies blatant disregard for immigration laws.
All the bleeding hearts on here make me sick too.
Of course it was not an incident to be proud of and much the result of tragic circumstances. Key circumstances being the activities of islamic terrorists and also John de Menzies blatant disregard for immigration laws.
Wow, the Britain actually lose the "Battle of Britain"???
Sure hope the British did not!
01 November 2007, 11:30 PM
#63
02 November 2007, 12:10 AM
#67
02 November 2007, 12:25 AM
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02 November 2007, 08:19 AM
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Did not take too long to get into name calling - LOL!
Notice Janspeed decided not to pursue the IRA being forthright after his very odd (if a little ill thought out) comment about them being more forthright
Just off to polish my collection of iron crosses...
Last edited by The Zohan; 02 November 2007 at 08:23 AM.
02 November 2007, 08:36 AM
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Well said.
All the bleeding hearts on here make me sick too.
Of course it was not an incident to be proud of and much the result of tragic circumstances. Key circumstances being the activities of islamic terrorists and also John de Menzies blatant disregard for immigration laws.
All the bleeding hearts on here make me sick too.
Of course it was not an incident to be proud of and much the result of tragic circumstances. Key circumstances being the activities of islamic terrorists and also John de Menzies blatant disregard for immigration laws.
Simon
02 November 2007, 08:42 AM
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Another perspective of the shooting from a witness here.
Interestingly, it was the undercover copper that was behaving suspiciously, not Menezes.
Interestingly, it was the undercover copper that was behaving suspiciously, not Menezes.
I think all of us would be a bit edgy, what did you expect him to do or how to act. at any moment he might need to give his life or take another. These are his day to day decisions.
02 November 2007, 08:52 AM
#78
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Hardly suprising is it, he belived he had a suicide bomber in reach and could be about to set off his bomb killing men women and children.
I think all of us would be a bit edgy, what did you expect him to do or how to act. at any moment he might need to give his life or take another. These are his day to day decisions.
I think all of us would be a bit edgy, what did you expect him to do or how to act. at any moment he might need to give his life or take another. These are his day to day decisions.
The undercover copper was lucky he didn't get slotted as well. Especially as he was dressed similarly to Menezes.
02 November 2007, 12:31 PM
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The argument that he may have been a cocaine user some how contributed to him getting shot, is one of the most stupid things I have heard in a long time.
It's irrelevant, it is a ploy to try and destroy his character, as to somehow justify his shooting.
It's irrelevant, it is a ploy to try and destroy his character, as to somehow justify his shooting.
02 November 2007, 01:21 PM
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I find it disturbing that so many are apparently prepared to blame his death on himself for being in this country illegally and also whittling on about him having used cocaine. Or is it just an attempt to denigrate his character!
Did those offences really justify his killing by the police? That is what some seem to be trying to make it appear to be. Those two facts have absolutely no bearing on the fact that a man who was innocent of anything to do with terrorism was brutally killed by the authorities. By all accounts the police control of the situation was a shambles and that goes straight back to the the head man. That is what he was being paid for. Having screwed up, he has to take all the blame and should leave his job forthwith.
It is interesting that a policeman was prepared to sit beside De Menezes on the train and to point him out to the armed men who shot him. Did that man think he was a bomber I wonder? His clothing which was light did not reveal any sign of a bomb attached to his body.
I think the telling account was that the armed men wrestled him to the floor and one shot him twice in the head. The other man then shot him a further three times in the head for luck! Was all this done in a red mist I wonder. Or were they looking for an excuse to kill someone? There were also a further two shots to the body. Seems a bit over the top to me, why keep shooting him when his brains must have been all over the floor anyway?
It was a shameful episode and I think it was nothing to be proud about, especially with the attempted cover up afterwards.
Les
Did those offences really justify his killing by the police? That is what some seem to be trying to make it appear to be. Those two facts have absolutely no bearing on the fact that a man who was innocent of anything to do with terrorism was brutally killed by the authorities. By all accounts the police control of the situation was a shambles and that goes straight back to the the head man. That is what he was being paid for. Having screwed up, he has to take all the blame and should leave his job forthwith.
It is interesting that a policeman was prepared to sit beside De Menezes on the train and to point him out to the armed men who shot him. Did that man think he was a bomber I wonder? His clothing which was light did not reveal any sign of a bomb attached to his body.
I think the telling account was that the armed men wrestled him to the floor and one shot him twice in the head. The other man then shot him a further three times in the head for luck! Was all this done in a red mist I wonder. Or were they looking for an excuse to kill someone? There were also a further two shots to the body. Seems a bit over the top to me, why keep shooting him when his brains must have been all over the floor anyway?
It was a shameful episode and I think it was nothing to be proud about, especially with the attempted cover up afterwards.
Les
02 November 2007, 02:27 PM
#81
I find it disturbing that so many are apparently prepared to blame his death on himself for being in this country illegally and also whittling on about him having used cocaine. Or is it just an attempt to denigrate his character!
Did those offences really justify his killing by the police? That is what some seem to be trying to make it appear to be. Those two facts have absolutely no bearing on the fact that a man who was innocent of anything to do with terrorism was brutally killed by the authorities. By all accounts the police control of the situation was a shambles and that goes straight back to the the head man. That is what he was being paid for. Having screwed up, he has to take all the blame and should leave his job forthwith.
Did those offences really justify his killing by the police? That is what some seem to be trying to make it appear to be. Those two facts have absolutely no bearing on the fact that a man who was innocent of anything to do with terrorism was brutally killed by the authorities. By all accounts the police control of the situation was a shambles and that goes straight back to the the head man. That is what he was being paid for. Having screwed up, he has to take all the blame and should leave his job forthwith.
02 November 2007, 05:05 PM
#82
I think the telling account was that the armed men wrestled him to the floor and one shot him twice in the head. The other man then shot him a further three times in the head for luck! Was all this done in a red mist I wonder. Or were they looking for an excuse to kill someone? There were also a further two shots to the body. Seems a bit over the top to me, why keep shooting him when his brains must have been all over the floor anyway?
After all, this is what he was suspected of, and a stern shout is hardly going to stop someone that has decided to die that day.
02 November 2007, 06:03 PM
#83
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Interesting posts, and I have to say That I'm with Paul and Suresh on this.
No, being an illegal and a class a drug user did not justify his getting shot. His actions may well have - although unless any of us was actually there, we cannot comment on that. The BBC are hardly "independent", now, are they, and it seems everyone in the media likes to knock the police at the moment, so it is hardly surprising that what is being reported in the media is very much anti Met and pro JCDM.
The worst thing about this whole sorry episode is that the matter has got this far at all. We all cry out when the police don't (or can't) do their jobs, when criminals get away with everything and when punishments are just not befitting of the crime. If this guy had been a terrorist with a bomb then shooting him 5 times in the head would be entirey justified.
Unfortunately, mistakes will and do happen. When the extreme line is taken, occasionally innocent (or in this case not guilty of the crime of which he was mistakenly suspected) people will get hurt. Its unavoidable.
Personally, I sleep much better knowing that the police are prepared to shoot a terror suspect 7 times in the head if the need arises than not, becasue they are worried about the consequences.
Yes, there are lessons to be learned from this and procedures to be revised, but lets pray it doesn't come back and bite us in the **** by ultimately reducing the effectiveness of the police in these matters.
What the Met should have done is put their hands up, said sorry we made a mistake but **** happens in these sutiations. Paid the familiy suitable compensation, been absolutely sincere in their apology and condolances and got back to getting on with the job in hand.
I'd be interested to see the results of a poll of honest, British national, hard working Londoners to see how they felt about it.
My guess is that most would be in favour of the action that was taken than see another tube blown up.
No, being an illegal and a class a drug user did not justify his getting shot. His actions may well have - although unless any of us was actually there, we cannot comment on that. The BBC are hardly "independent", now, are they, and it seems everyone in the media likes to knock the police at the moment, so it is hardly surprising that what is being reported in the media is very much anti Met and pro JCDM.
The worst thing about this whole sorry episode is that the matter has got this far at all. We all cry out when the police don't (or can't) do their jobs, when criminals get away with everything and when punishments are just not befitting of the crime. If this guy had been a terrorist with a bomb then shooting him 5 times in the head would be entirey justified.
Unfortunately, mistakes will and do happen. When the extreme line is taken, occasionally innocent (or in this case not guilty of the crime of which he was mistakenly suspected) people will get hurt. Its unavoidable.
Personally, I sleep much better knowing that the police are prepared to shoot a terror suspect 7 times in the head if the need arises than not, becasue they are worried about the consequences.
Yes, there are lessons to be learned from this and procedures to be revised, but lets pray it doesn't come back and bite us in the **** by ultimately reducing the effectiveness of the police in these matters.
What the Met should have done is put their hands up, said sorry we made a mistake but **** happens in these sutiations. Paid the familiy suitable compensation, been absolutely sincere in their apology and condolances and got back to getting on with the job in hand.
I'd be interested to see the results of a poll of honest, British national, hard working Londoners to see how they felt about it.
My guess is that most would be in favour of the action that was taken than see another tube blown up.
02 November 2007, 06:10 PM
#84
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I think with someone positively identified as an immediate threat, yup, but you do it as far away from crowds as possible. They failed to identify their target, AND failed to prevent him from entering i) the bus, ii) re-entering the bus, iii) the tube station and iv) the tube.
The entire situation was fueled by increasing levels of anxiety and panic and a feeling of imminent doom.
J.
The entire situation was fueled by increasing levels of anxiety and panic and a feeling of imminent doom.
J.
02 November 2007, 06:13 PM
#85
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BBC NEWS | UK | Police guilty over Menezes case
So basically the police shoot dead a guy for getting the tube, the MET are found guilty but not one single person is held accountable and then they get fined a small sum, which the tax payer have to burden whilst the people involved say "**** it, that's life" and get on with their day....
Unreal
So basically the police shoot dead a guy for getting the tube, the MET are found guilty but not one single person is held accountable and then they get fined a small sum, which the tax payer have to burden whilst the people involved say "**** it, that's life" and get on with their day....
Unreal
02 November 2007, 06:17 PM
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TO PAUL HABGOOD
I have no proof that there are bent plod in liverpool. i come form broadway norris green. if i can walk around and deduce that the amount of Tougreg, cayennes and X5's are being driven by 20 year olds why can't the police? i agree a percentage will be purchased by honest money, no way all of them are though. i know what goes on around that area. RE in practice i would like to see how long the police protect the person who names Rhys Jones killer. i hope they catch them. i wished my views to be heard just like yourself we're all entitled to our opinion. menezes was shot seven times in the head, i think once would have been sufficient do you? any policeman who acts outwith their guidelines should be held accountable. in our nanny state everyone else is, are you? all the best, Chris.
02 November 2007, 06:40 PM
#87
Why? to give them a fighting chance perhaps?
After all this was the situation in this case, even though the poor guy was inocent.
02 November 2007, 07:14 PM
#89
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Its not like they were making a decision as to whether they should wear warm coat or not, we are talking about snap decisions that may effect the imminent life span of 100's of people.. To sit back and slag of the MET is a bit pathetic IMHO.
02 November 2007, 07:18 PM
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Look, cocaine - read up or take a toot or two mate
!effects are euphoria/great feelings whilst high on it.
However:
Whilst coming down (as Demenezes was, as it was in his urine not his bloodstream)) are paranoia, moods, irrtablility, etc and very likely to be a contributing factor!