p1mark

[quote=stoneface;7427968]Incorrect, it was on an autobahn, My bill for the recovery truck home was frightening

NS04 is talking about the advance multiplier (AM) which is basically a number between 1-16 that correlates to an ignition advance over what is in the base map. With every thing fit and healthy you will be running at 16 with maximum advance. If the ECU detects any knock (for example from a lower spec fuel) it might knock it back to 8 for example, thereby retarding the ignition. The problem is with the classic ECU's can they detect and react fast enough. If they can't then the potential is there for a blow up.

There is no engineering reason that a correctly designed flat 4 engine will be more fragile than a correctly designed inline 4/6, V6/V8 etc...

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I think if it was an inherrent design fault with the engine, then why would they be using it for over 20 years? why would porsche use the same boxer layout? There are too many big power scoobs out there running reliably. You only hear about the engine failures on here, no one will post to say ive driven my car today and its not gone pop!!

As for the Evos I think they used 2 types of management, currently the ecutek which is in effect the same as the scoob, certainly from reading on the evo register there are lots of standard engines running 400bhp so their internals must be stronger to start with (maybe stronger than sti) however like someone mentioned the earlier versions suffer from the crankwalk. I also imagine that there would be a lot more scoobs on the roads than evos

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

I take it you mean that it was the BP stuff that was dodgey and not Optimax?!

MikeWood

Edd

We didn't recalibrate the ECU at all and have never claimed to have done so. FHI (Subaru in Japan) did make some changes that they felt were suitable to make the car more tolerant running on UK fuel but we didn't tell them what they had to do and we weren't told exactly what they had done. At that time we did not have the necessary ECU access to do any recalibration in any case.

My own personal thoughts on the matter is that most of the engine problems are related to MAF issues or modifications made to things such as the exhaust. The original calibration is pretty well optimised and a small change can tip it over the edge quite easily. Contamination of the MAF will lead to det almost immediately, as will a change in exhaust backpressure.

MAF contamination can happen naturally over time but may well be accelerated hugely by a different airfilter being fitted, hence why we didn't include an air filter in the 99/00MY PPP. Contamination by oil also occurs if the oil level is too high and the car runs at high rpm and/or high cornering loads. In this scenario, oil mist gets into the breather system which can get to the MAF. Maybe this is why some failures are happening shortly after a service...

The subsequent det is normally not fatal the first time but there's only so much the pistons or bearings can take so the normal failure is a bearing failure as the det has knocked it out eventually.

My suggestion would therefore be to make sure the oil level isn't too high, change the MAF on a regular basis, avoid fuel surge and don't fiddle unless you know exactly what you are doing and what the likely consequences are

Mike

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Hi Mike

What would you consider to be appropriate (or sensible) MAF 'service' intervals for the Classics:

- '92-'96 MY

- '96-'98 MY

- '98-'00 MY

Thanks.

ZEN Performance

- '92-'96 MY Never, but can be cleaned with brake cleaner

- '96-'98 MY Never, but can eb cleaned with brake cleaner

- '98-'00 MY Once a year, get it checked as part of your service

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

I have a '93 WRX (soon to be with you for a new engine - it's already booked in)... So just cleaning the wire mesh thoroughly with brake cleaner to get rid of dirt/deposits is sufficient to get the wire's resistance back to spec.?! That's a handy and inexpensive tip - thanks a lot!

MikeWood

Only the 99-00MY cars are sensitive enough to MAF contamination to need regular attention. My suggestion would be to swap it at least as often as the filter.

Mike

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

A good precaution for MY99/00 owners concerned that they might miss the usual warning signs is to get get a knocklink fitted, if you suddenly start getting ambers or the occassional flash of red, chances are its the pesky maf!

ZEN Performance

I would be checking some newer cars too.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yes, according to the technical people I've spoken to (including Bob, who mapped mine)

Ultimate BAD
Optimax (now Vpower) Gooooooooood!

Ns04

p1doc

my p1 did well then,when bought i waas recommended by the subaru garage to run it on 95 ron!! as were several other owners
a spirited run to 165mph on speedo was only done as a one off
as mike works for prodrive he will get all p1 engines discussed with him likely before deciding if subaru would honour warranty so he would likely know or have a good guess what is the matter
my local garage has had several go pop after a service
martin

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

How wierd. I wonder what it is with BP Ultimate which could cause that terrible fault?
[Good job I only use V-Power ]

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Had several stories on here about Subarus mysteriously spitting out their bottom ends after a service, only for the only to be told, nowt to do with us gov, sometimes they just do that

I recall one individual on here asking for advice about a rebuild after a dealer had told him that it was ok to drive the car normally untill he got a faulty MAF replaced

Some dealers (not just Subaru by any means) are just shocking!

scoobyboy

in case you all didn't know if a dealer has to replace an engine on a p1 because of big end failure they are only able to order a complete short motor they were all issued with a tsb about it

Scutch

Great thread with superb information and knowledge from the best

EddScott

Not sure if its true (doubt it) one dealer who was asking £13K for a P1 with almost no history said that Subaru would not offer any warranty on an engine replacement for a P1.

Actually, I know thats rubbish because theres a lad local to me who has had an engine replacement by a dealer and he says it warrantied - albeit only 3 months.

I tell you, what some dealers will say is shocking. This was at a very well known RR place up north.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

My first STi (JDM Ver V) blew the engine a few days after a service; big end went. Could never pin it on the garage that did the service

Back then (2002-04) the remap issue seemed to be fairly unknown as I was a member here & don't recall it ever being discussed; hence my STi was not remaped for UK fuel.

TX.

MonkiP1

But dont we here more about the P1 going bang due to people broudcasting it more often and asking more questions about the P1 than any other classic?

I hear of other classics having a rebuild due to big ends or other symptioms and no one flames there version cars as much as the P1.

Is it because its an "Limited Edition?"

Monki.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

It may have something to do with the fact that the P1 is supposed to be a car designed for the UK market and, therefore, UK fuel - so owners probably are less tolerant/more annoyed to when its big end/s let go, etc...

Ste RB5138

Quite a few RB5's have had rebuild's (including mine ) in the past, considering only 444 were made.

I would say the MY99 MAF has most of the blame

cster

How do you getb smilies?

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

use the post reply instead of quick reply

P1SWRT

iTrader: (2)

I had a P1 in May 2000 and by the time I sold it in December 2004 I had covered 97,000miles of a mix of motorway and B road stuff, trips to Germany, France and Spain including plenty of hard driving for extended periods of time.

The only mods were a K&N filter and a Scorpion centre/back box.

Maybe I was 'lucky' but the engine never let go and never missed a beat,original clutch & gearbox to!

Car ran solely on Esso 97ron and BP 97ron and pulled better and was faster with Esso
I only put Shell optimax in it twice in the 4.5 years and the car was noticibly slower on both occasions.

I always drove the car in a spirited manner every day once it had been run in and can honestly say that it was as strong on the last day as what it was on the first.

Justt to even up the discussion as little.

Cheers
Rob

Bob Rawle

Mark has the best post ... there is one overriding common factor though, the car is designed as a sprint vehicle, in Japan its speed limited, we delimit and expect it to hold up. Basically the most common cause of failure is prolonged high rpm high engine load, this causes the cylinder temps to get overly hot. Subaru tightened up the piston to bore clearances following the "very" expensive piston slap problem they had to contend with on the MY98 cars ... result is the pistons can nip in the bores, that takes out a ring land and/or flats the bearings, so the end result is vesuvious in the cylinder or a loud rattle or both.

And thats about it, assuming V Power is used as a minimum, ideally with a splash of booster.

Re the knock correction, there is a degree more sensitivity in the P1 code, BUT ... over about 5600 rpm the knock correction doesn't work (its not programmed to).

So, be careful just don't hold high revs for prolonged periods, use the best fuel (that means DO NOT use BP Ultimate which is pants) like V Power or Tesco 99. A decent quality fully synthetic oil and change the maf every 15-20 k miles. Finally do not use anything but a filter that filters, K & N based induction or panel, Sti panel, Green panel all work, almost anything else should be avoided.

Remapping for local fuel is also a big help.

best regards

bob

burns

iTrader: (1)

Or just get rid of your MAF.

scoobyboy

it is true i'm afraid we really had to fight for a replacement engine when one went bang within a year of it having had a replacement for the original.